Which CRPGs from the 80s and early to mid 90s hold up best today?

[JarlFrank]

All real time blobbers (from Dungeon Master , through EoB 1-3, Lands of Lore, to Stonekeep and Anvil of Dawn) are 100% playable - Legend of Grimrock games have mostly identical gameplay and are quite modern.

But they sucked back then and they suck now.

I'm still butthurt at Grimrock being the game that revived the blobber genre, because thanks to it all the new blobbers we get are puzzle games with step dance combat.

Imagine if it had been a Might and Magic World of Xeen clone that had revived the blobber genre instead. But noooo it had to be one of those step dance simulators.

 

[JarlFrank]

Is the remake or original Realms of Arkania the definitive way to play?

Only ERYFKRAD can answer this question

 

[luj1]

All real time blobbers (from Dungeon Master , through EoB 1-3, Lands of Lore, to Stonekeep and Anvil of Dawn) are 100% playable - Legend of Grimrock games have mostly identical gameplay and are quite modern.

But they sucked back then and they suck now.

I'm still butthurt at Grimrock being the game that revived the blobber genre, because thanks to it all the new blobbers we get are puzzle games with step dance combat.

Imagine if it had been a Might and Magic World of Xeen clone that had revived the blobber genre instead. But noooo it had to be one of those step dance simulators.

You have Grimoire though

 

[mondblut]

Best GB game that holds up is Champions of Krynn, highly recommended over POR and earlier GB's.

Of all goldbox games he had to pick the most linear and railroaded one.

 

[anvi]

Grimrock was a let down. M&MX Legacy is under rated.

 

[mondblut]

Is the remake or original Realms of Arkania the definitive way to play?

There is no remake to Shadows over Riva, so...

Tbh certain design decisions in Blade of Destiny were mindboggling even in 1991, such as penalty for saving and ranged weapons working only in 8 directions, so unless you are determined to go through the trilogy with one party, you might save yourself some righteous nerdrage by playing remake of this one.

 

[JarlFrank]

All real time blobbers (from Dungeon Master , through EoB 1-3, Lands of Lore, to Stonekeep and Anvil of Dawn) are 100% playable - Legend of Grimrock games have mostly identical gameplay and are quite modern.

But they sucked back then and they suck now.

I'm still butthurt at Grimrock being the game that revived the blobber genre, because thanks to it all the new blobbers we get are puzzle games with step dance combat.

Imagine if it had been a Might and Magic World of Xeen clone that had revived the blobber genre instead. But noooo it had to be one of those step dance simulators.

You have Grimoire though

Also Sword and Sorcery Underworld, Legends of Amberland, Frayed Knights... there are a couple decent to great turn-based blobbers out there, but they're a minority compared to the flood of Grimrock clones.

Then again, the same was true in the 90s. Dozens and dozens of Dungeon Master/EoB clones, and much fewer M&M or Wizardry clones.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Is the remake or original Realms of Arkania the definitive way to play?

Only ERYFKRAD can answer this question

Oh there are remakes? Cool.

 

[sys0nar]

Fallout created the cRPG genre in 1997, so this entire thread is fake news.

Too bad Fallout is just a boring-ass trash heap explorer simulator.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I played the Magic Candle games a few years ago and they were excellent.

 

[RNGsus]

Imo gold box games are still solid, just prepare a bunch of backgrouns music cause IIRC they dont have any.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChmm356a5qe1luUsoatAgjA

 

[sys0nar]

Imo gold box games are still solid, just prepare a bunch of backgrouns music cause IIRC they dont have any.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChmm356a5qe1luUsoatAgjA

 

[anvi]

I played the Magic Candle games a few years ago and they were excellent.

I never got around to that but I liked Magic Carpet.

 

[samuraigaiden]

Wizardry. Always Wizardry. In fact, it holds up so well games pretty much exactly like it get made every year - mostly in Japan tho.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Imo gold box games are still solid, just prepare a bunch of backgrouns music cause IIRC they dont have any.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChmm356a5qe1luUsoatAgjA

Yeah but switch to this for battles:

Then again, the same was true in the 90s. Dozens and dozens of Dungeon Master/EoB clones, and much fewer M&M or Wizardry clones.

Occurred to me too recently that the '90s rpg crash' was worse than anything we've seen since. Lands of Lore, Anvil of Dawn, Stonekeep, etc are all puzzle games with very light RPG elements that make Skyrim look ultra hardcore, not to mention what happened to Ultima.

 

[Gastrick]

I disagree. Many eighties classics are still very enjoyable today because they're so unlike modern games or even late nineties "golden age" RPGs, but when successors offer the same kind of experience but better, many pioneers end up losing their appeal. Look at Ultima VI for example, an innovative open world RPG lauded at the time as a masterpiece, that today is just that old kiddie RPG enjoyed only by nostalgic Gen-xers, since storyfags became more demanding after games like Fallout and PS:T, modern settings make Britannia look like a retarded theme park, mainstream sandboxes like Minecraft are exponentially more interactive, mouse driven GUIs have improved a lot since 1990, and so on. Ultima VI might have been a very unique and exciting game at the time, but today it feels like a mere prototype, and even older entries in the series seem more interesting and fun.

I was playing it a few months ago and find it to be a very fun game, if lacking in RPG elements. Not in Gen-X as well. Getting started did take a few attempts though. I get that some games can give off the feeling that you wish you were playing a more modern and complex version. 90% of open world games you could call retarded theme parks and be partially right. Minecraft isn't an RPG though. The only bad part of the GUI is that you can you see 7 steps away and even less at night. "Better games exist later on" is a shit reason anyway to say a pioneer has no appeal.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

I was playing it a few months ago and find it to be a very fun game, if lacking in RPG elements. Not in Gen-X as well. Getting started did take a few attempts though. I get that some games can give off the feeling that you wish you were playing a more modern and complex version. 90% of open world games you could call retarded theme parks and be partially right. Minecraft isn't an RPG though. The only bad part of the GUI is that you can you see 7 steps away and even less at night. "Better games exist later on" is a shit reason anyway to say a pioneer has no appeal.

That's a fine opinion bro, but here's the Codex consensus:

And outside the codex it's barely remembered. Back in 1990 it was the best RPG ever according to many, today it's just that awkward middle game in an old series. What happened here?

Ultima VI defined open-world adventure games at the time, and before titles like Morrowind, GTA and Minecraft (and of course Ultima VII) most normies picked it up if they wanted to dick around and be "creative" in a virtual world. Before Betrayal at Krondor, Baldur's Gate and Japanese imports, Ultima VI was considered a top-notch storyfag RPG with charismatic companions and a "mature" plot. And don't get me started with the atrocious GUI, which was lauded at the time, but that today feels like a step-down from the previous games in the series.

Don't get me wrong, Ultima VI is still playable and can certainly be enjoyed, but only as a charming little artifact from the past, not as the gold standard in sandbox adventures, or CRPGs. Because, let's be honest, it's quite dated.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

Sword of the Samurai is an RPG/strategy/arcade hybrid, where you compete with other clans to become shogun. It has a nice historical setting, a good reputation system, and many non-scripted "evil" options (you can assassinate rivals, kidnap their relatives, betray allies, and so on) which may or may not affect your karma. A must play game if you already like other historical games like Darklands, Pirates! or Expeditions: Conquistador, or if you like Kurosawa films, as this feels like a homage to Ran.

Objection, Sword isn't a RPG. There's no real character advancement. Its a game where a player can role-play in the other sense of the word, like Covert Action and Pirates, but its not actually a RPG. Still fantastic, but don't go into it thinking its something its not.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

Objection, Sword isn't a RPG. There's no real character advancement. Its a game where a player can role-play in the other sense of the word, like Covert Action and Pirates, but its not actually a RPG. Still fantastic, but don't go into it thinking its something its not.

There's a sword skill stat that grows the more you fight, and many moral choices to help define your main character (which is an important aspect of CRPGs since at least the original Wizardry) and consequences. It might not be the most purebred RPG, but it's clearly a hybrid.

And here's the back of the box:

 

[Gastrick]

That's a fine opinion bro, but here's the Codex consensus:

And outside the codex it's barely remembered. Back in 1990 it was the best RPG ever according to many, today it's just that awkward middle game in an old series. What happened here?

Ultima VI defined open-world adventure games at the time, and before titles like Morrowind, GTA and Minecraft (and of course Ultima VII) most normies picked it up if they wanted to dick around and be "creative" in a virtual world. Before Betrayal at Krondor, Baldur's Gate and Japanese imports, Ultima VI was considered a top-notch storyfag RPG with charismatic companions and a "mature" plot. And don't get me started with the atrocious GUI, which was lauded at the time, but that today feels like a step-down from the previous games in the series.

Don't get me wrong, Ultima VI is still playable and can certainly be enjoyed, but only as a charming little artifact from the past, not as the gold standard in sandbox adventures, or CRPGs. Because, let's be honest, it's quite dated.

I know about that list and that it didn't make the top 101. The three problems is that, consensus is based on 80% or more, that list is for the best in the series and not the top 3, codex has consensuses that certain games are irredeemable shit where polls show most users just find them meh, and that the codex isn't perfect.
I'm not too interested in what journos had to say back then as much as now. Just look at tLoU2 to see the difference between audiences and "critics" if you could even call them that. Ultima is the most well known series from the 80s and very early 90s(not that it should be, but it is).
You're confusing comparisons and quality. Sure, what you can compare something to will change over time but the quality only changes with audiences. An audience will be used to certain types of games and want some degree of familiarity. If something really was bad, then it would have actually been just as bad then, they may just have had a first-time bias.
Also, the GUI did something great, look at this-
https://www.filfre.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/ultima6_002.png
It has the same text-box form that the Disco Elysium creator was bragging about in his interview as "groundbreaking".

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

Objection, Sword isn't a RPG. There's no real character advancement. Its a game where a player can role-play in the other sense of the word, like Covert Action and Pirates, but its not actually a RPG. Still fantastic, but don't go into it thinking its something its not.

There's a sword skill stat that grows the more you fight, and many moral choices to help define your main character (which is an important aspect of CRPGs since at least the original Wizardry) and consequences. It might not be the most purebred RPG, but it's clearly a hybrid.

Thing is that sword skill barely affects combat. Moral choices also aren't necessarily a CRPG-exclusive trait, is Papers, Please a RPG? Galactic Civilizations 2. I realize that the back of the box says that, which is technically enough to be considered a RPG on this forum, but someone going in thinking its anything other than a samurai simulator is going to be a bit disappointed.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Imo gold box games are still solid, just prepare a bunch of backgrouns music cause IIRC they dont have any.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChmm356a5qe1luUsoatAgjA

This is something I needed but didn't know it until now

 

[Lady_Error]

The only one I replayed from start to finish in recent years:

Wizardry 7

Others that I think hold up well:

Realms of Arkania: Star Trail
Eye of the Beholder 1/2
Ultima Underworld
Dungeon Master
Wasteland

 

[luj1]

Fallout created the cRPG genre in 1997, so this entire thread is fake news.

Too bad Fallout is just a boring-ass trash heap explorer simulator.

Are you two competing who's the biggest retard?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Fallout created the cRPG genre in 1997, so this entire thread is fake news.

Too bad Fallout is just a boring-ass trash heap explorer simulator.

Are you two competing who's the biggest retard?

We're competing for second place, no way we could take first from you.