Which game killed the shooter genre?

[SharkClub]

You could play Doom 1 with a NES pad if you wanted.

What a retarded post. You could play Doom 1 with an NES pad, yes. Would it be a fun experience? Probably not. More likely it'd just frustrate the fuck out of you even on a lower difficulty. I beat Doom 1 on the GBA back in the day and that version of the game was tuned down difficulty wise so that Nightmare was basically PC's Hurt Me Plenty, and Doom 1 isn't a hard game to begin with.

The point being made about consoles and gamepads is that while PC FPS games post-Doom1 were evolving into the late 90's, the difficulty level of them was growing to match a more skilled playerbase who is more used to using KB&M. Try playing Blood on Extra Crispy on a shitty gamepad and see how far you get. As soon as consoles took over with Halo and CoD all FPS campaigns turned into regenerating shields/health hide behind a wall cover shooter interspersed with story cutscenes, the difficulty of a console shooter does not come from the game's design it comes from the limitations of using a gamepad and thus single player FPS gameplay stagnated hard thanks to shitty consoles.

 

[Nutmeg]

You could play Doom 1 with an NES pad, yes. Would it be a fun experience? Probably not.

Why not? The controls were designed around directional keys + 4 buttons (ctrl (shoot), alt (strafe), shift (run) and space (use)). Do you think that's functionally different to a NES pad? Maybe the NES pad layout is a bit awkward (you could make run a toggle on select, strafe a modifier on B, shoot/use on A), but a SNES pad is perfect.

I beat Doom 1 on the GBA back in the day

My condolences.

late 90's

*late* being the key point. All the mid 90s shooters default controls didn't have mouse look. I can't remember for certain now if you need engine modifications to make mouse look work nicely with Build, but IIRC you did, or at least no one played Duke or Blood with mouse look. Quake 1, Dark Forces 2 the same. All of these games have vertical auto aim.

Not to mention the really good console exclusives from the time like Doom 64 and Powerslave.

All the best games were designed around no mouse look.

It'd be easier to make the argument that mouse look led to the decline than the opposite. I mean, the correlation is there. On the other hand there is no correlation with the absence of the mouse and game quality because all the best games were mouse free!

 

[SharkClub]

You could play Doom 1 with an NES pad, yes. Would it be a fun experience? Probably not.

Why not? The controls were designed around directional keys + 4 buttons (ctrl (shoot), alt (strafe), shift (run) and space (use)). Do you think that's functionally different to a NES pad? Maybe the NES pad layout is a bit awkward (you could make run a toggle on select, strafe a modifier on B, shoot/use on A), but a SNES pad is perfect.

Nice goalpost moving. A SNES pad is not an NES pad. The NES controller has four directional buttons, start, select, A and B. Unless you're suggesting playing the game with the intention of using start to open a door and select to toggle strafing on and off idk what fucking game you're thinking of playing. The SNES controller literally has four more buttons than the NES controller, it's not even remotely the same argument.

HURR old games had no mouse look

This is fucking retarded. Kill yourself. Not even remotely true. Doom 1 was designed with horizontal mouselook and a KB&M control scheme in mind and I hate this retarded myth that people spout about how keyboard turning is the only true way to play old FPS games. What a load of horse shit. Duke 3D had vertical mouselook toggle and yes all of these games had vertical autoaim because the engine wasn't fully 3D and faking the look up/down thing in it was ugly.

The action of turning with the mouse and moving with the keyboard is not something you can do on an NES controller. Please cease your retarded shitposting.

 

[Nutmeg]

Strafe was on mouse, turning was on the arrows tho lol.

No one played with a mouse.

This isn't shit posting, I am explaining to you how people played these games and what kind of control scheme they were designed around.

 

[Nutmeg]

Unless you're suggesting playing the game with the intention of using start to open a door and select to toggle strafing on

A to open or shoot.
Hold B to strafe.
Select to toggle run.

 

[SharkClub]

And you think tying the same button for opening/closing doors and activating elevators you're standing on to shooting is a good idea that won't hamper the experience in any way. You're delusional. Go and play Blood on Extra Crispy with your Xbox gamepad.

And you're wrong. Carmack and Romero have explicitly stated the games were designed with mouselook in mind, but your shit baiting is so low effort and retarded that I'm not going to do you the favor of finding their comments about it.

 

[Morenatsu.]

Strafe was on mouse, turning was on the arrows tho lol.

No one played with a mouse.

This isn't shit posting, I am explaining to you how people played these games and what kind of control scheme they were designed around.

Turning was on mouse, retard.

No one played on mouse except id Software themselves, who say you're supposed to use a mouse lol

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Video game version has much more post-processing and crap going on than the REAL version. Video game version has the glass looking like a scratchy mess. Real glass is clean.

The obsession with photorealism in games is funny.

Reminds me of something I heard about Christopher Nolan's Dunkirk. The Dunkirk veterans who watched it complained about the volume and said that it wasn't that loud in real life.

it's more about the colors and lighting than anything:

 

[Nutmeg]

Strafe was on mouse, turning was on the arrows tho lol.

No one played with a mouse.

This isn't shit posting, I am explaining to you how people played these games and what kind of control scheme they were designed around.

Turning was on mouse, retard.

No one played on mouse except id Software themselves, who say you're supposed to use a mouse lol

You're right turning was on mouse. You strafed when you held down the middle button. I misremembered cause I didn't use a mouse! You know what else was on the mouse, move forward. That's what made mouse unusable.

And the Id guys didn't use mouse IIRC. Have a look at photos from early LAN parties. Mouse use is extremely rare.

Anyway guys, you seem a bit young. But I played Doom on release. I played Duke and Quake on release. No one I knew used a mouse.

 

[SharkClub]

And so ends the tale of the frail codexer who can't stand being incorrect for once in his life and proceeds to spam retard buttons on my posts. Poor chap.

 

[Derringer]

I've played shitty homebrew ports of doom before on the GBA and DS along with the SNES version, buttons worked but it's definitely more clunky even while using strafe a lot. Both beat touchpad.

 

[Morenatsu.]

Strafe was on mouse, turning was on the arrows tho lol.

No one played with a mouse.

This isn't shit posting, I am explaining to you how people played these games and what kind of control scheme they were designed around.

Turning was on mouse, retard.

No one played on mouse except id Software themselves, who say you're supposed to use a mouse lol

You're right turning was on mouse. You strafed when you held down the middle button. I misremembered cause I didn't use a mouse! You know what else was on the mouse, move forward. That's what made mouse unusable.

And the Id guys didn't use mouse IIRC. Have a look at photos from early LAN parties. Mouse use is extremely rare.

Anyway guys, you seem a bit young. But I played Doom on release. I played Duke and Quake on release. No one I knew used a mouse.

what the fuck do lanfags have to do with romero using a mouse

 

[Nutmeg]

And you think tying the same button for opening/closing doors and activating elevators you're standing on to shooting is a good idea that won't hamper the experience in any way. You're delusional.

I had just looked up the default controls to check the strafe on mouse thing and apparently use/open was on double click mouse 2, which was also move forward lol. So yeah if you made double tap up on your NES pad for open/use you'd get the same retardation. But I'd probably make it start (and make bringing the menu up holding down start).

 

[mediocrepoet]

You could play Doom 1 with an NES pad, yes. Would it be a fun experience? Probably not.

Why not? The controls were designed around directional keys + 4 buttons (ctrl (shoot), alt (strafe), shift (run) and space (use)). Do you think that's functionally different to a NES pad? Maybe the NES pad layout is a bit awkward (you could make run a toggle on select, strafe a modifier on B, shoot/use on A), but a SNES pad is perfect.

Nice goalpost moving. A SNES pad is not an NES pad. The NES controller has four directional buttons, start, select, A and B. Unless you're suggesting playing the game with the intention of using start to open a door and select to toggle strafing on and off idk what fucking game you're thinking of playing. The SNES controller literally has four more buttons than the NES controller, it's not even remotely the same argument.

HURR old games had no mouse look

This is fucking retarded. Kill yourself. Not even remotely true. Doom 1 was designed with horizontal mouselook and a KB&M control scheme in mind and I hate this retarded myth that people spout about how keyboard turning is the only true way to play old FPS games. What a load of horse shit. Duke 3D had vertical mouselook toggle and yes all of these games had vertical autoaim because the engine wasn't fully 3D and faking the look up/down thing in it was ugly.

The action of turning with the mouse and moving with the keyboard is not something you can do on an NES controller. Please cease your retarded shitposting.

Re: NES pad, how the hell do you change guns? Nevermind the fact that you'd have to cycle through all of them or have a pause menu to get the one you want instead of being able to instantly pick the right one.

 

[Nutmeg]

NES pad was hyperbole. Anyway ofc. kb+m is a much better control scheme for FPS than a gamepad, but the point was they came after the bulk of the great FPSes were made which were designed around kb only play which is not too different to a gamepad.

 

[Morenatsu.]

stop lying

 

[Nutmeg]

Why are you people so butthurt about simple facts?

 

[Nutmeg]

Stupid kids. Get off my forum.

I guess there's one guy out of five using a mouse here:

 

[SharkClub]

I'm an old grandpa that means I know better than John Romero and John Carmack

Take your meds, schizo.

Using examples of back in the day tourneyfags to "prove" your point is kinda shooting yourself in the foot with your argument on the whole. Do you think those tourneyfags now would think that KB only is the competitive, preferred way to play? More likely they would cringe at themselves for not getting an easy win. Let's just forget that these people are the absolute minority of minorities and are more likely to be locals who play Doom and not people who play Doom coming from all over in 1996.

 

[Nutmeg]

I'm an old grandpa that means I know better than John Romero and John Carmack

Take your meds, schizo.

Ok dude why don't you play Doom or Quake with the mouse without changing the default bindings how Carmack and Romero intended. Tell me how it goes for you.

 

[SharkClub]

You know, having rebindable controls is actually yet another staple of PC gaming that got lost when all FPS games were becoming garbage console games. So again, another example of shooting yourself in the foot with your schizophrenia induced argument. You don't get to rebind your controls how you like in console FPS games, at the very best they let you pick from a few presets which swap a couple of buttons around.

 

[Nutmeg]

Do you think those tourneyfags now would think that KB only is the competitive, preferred way to play?

No, but that's how everyone played. Everyone. That's the control scheme these games were designed around.

They were also arguably designed around a mouse control scheme *nothing* like the one we use today. Moving your mouse up and down walks your character forward or backward. You would pick up the mouse and move it back so you could drag it forward again to move around. You would have to move your mouse perfectly side to side to turn without it also affecting your movement if you were using the arrow keys. No one did that.

 

[Nutmeg]

You know, having rebindable controls is actually yet another staple of PC gaming that got lost when all FPS games were becoming garbage console games. So again, another example of shooting yourself in the foot with your schizophrenia induced argument. You don't get to rebind your controls how you like in console FPS games, at the very best they let you pick from a few presets which swap a couple of buttons around.

It wasn't until 1997 that the modern style of kb+m started gaining some traction and it was hugely controversial at the time, lots of people hated it or thought it was nonsense. There were also many early tourney winners who used joysticks lol.

 

[SharkClub]

https://soulsphere.org/apocrypha/keyboard/

Enjoy the schizophrenic ramblings bouncing off the inside of your empty skull before they inevitably drive you to your grave, gramps.

Yes, even Wolfenstein 3D was designed for use with the mouse, and the in-game demos prove it if Romero's words aren't enough for you.

 

[Morenatsu.]

I'm an old grandpa that means I know better than John Romero and John Carmack

Take your meds, schizo.

Ok dude why don't you play Doom or Quake with the mouse without changing the default bindings how Carmack and Romero intended. Tell me how it goes for you.

No one plays DOS games without running the obligatory SETUP.EXE first. Default settings would be an argument if everyone were using the same hardware, but they weren't, so they're forced to use the simplest settings as default. Doom was meant to played keyboard-only as much as Windows was meant to used in 16 colour mode.