Official RPG Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Which Pathfinder AP should OwlCat adapt next? In your opinion?

Discussion in 'Owlcat Games' started by Meredoth, Sep 20, 2021.

?

In your opinion, which one should be the next?

This poll will close on Jul 18, 2023 at 9:39 AM.
  1. Rise of the Runelords

    16.3%
  2. Curse of the Crimson Throne

    6.1%
  3. Second Darkness

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Legacy of Fire

    1.0%
  5. Council of Thieves

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Serpent's Skull

    3.1%
  7. Carrion Crown

    5.1%
  8. Jade Regent

    1.0%
  9. Skull & Shackles

    10.2%
  10. Shattered Star

    1.0%
  11. Reign of Winter

    9.2%
  12. Mummy's Mask

    9.2%
  13. Iron Gods

    20.4%
  14. Giantslayer

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  15. Hell's Rebels

    2.0%
  16. Strange Aeons

    10.2%
  17. Ironfang Invasion

    1.0%
  18. Ruins of Azlant

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  19. War for the Crown

    1.0%
  20. Tyrant's Grasp

    2.0%
  21. Return of the Runelords

    1.0%
  1. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    21,605
    Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Ok thanks.
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Anonymous Wife Scholar Arbiter

    Anonymous Wife Scholar
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2020
    Messages:
    283
    Thank you anon! You are a good anon!
     
    • Shit Shit x 1
    ^ Top  
  3. kain30 Arbiter

    kain30
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2014
    Messages:
    524
    Location:
    spain
    A game in dark sun setting, with ad&d 2nd edition system and the engine of pathfinder. That is my dream game :)
     
    • incline x 3
    • Fabulously Optimistic x 2
    • Brofist x 1
    • nice x 1
    • Prestigious x 1
    • Excited! x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. Meredoth Arcane

    Meredoth
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Messages:
    4,747
    Location:
    Todstein, the Nocturnal Sea
    Woketards would never allow it...
     
    • Despair Despair x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Grab the minigun, there are demons here to smite Grab the minigun, there are demons here to smite x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. The_Rusty_Knight Hater of Larian

    The_Rusty_Knight
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2020
    Messages:
    2,267
    Location:
    Fairy land
    Yeah, I don't like how they look in iso
     
    ^ Top  
  6. Meredoth Arcane

    Meredoth
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Messages:
    4,747
    Location:
    Todstein, the Nocturnal Sea
    I know that there is virtually zero chances for it, but imagine a MYFAROG CRPG adaptation from owlcat. I just wish that Paizo will not force then to adapt 2E. I mean, IMO in order of greatest incline to greatest decline :

    1. Adapt a retroclone like Lamentations of the Flame Princess, Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea or etc
    2. Continue adapting PF1e
    3. Go starfinder
    4. Go PF2e
    1 = massive incline. 2 = incline. 3 = decline. 4 = massive decline.

    If I can play starfinder with full casters and not half casters, I'm fine with a starfinder CRPG too.

    I just don't get. Paizo got a massive success when Woketards decided to push they generic wow clone : tabletop edition AKA D&D 4E and they made a 3E clone. A decade later, they decided to ... Mix 4E and 5E when they should make PF2E more akin to D&D 2E. Picking the good aspects from 2E(more immersion, higher lethality) and good aspects from 3E(player customization, simpler math). And divide Golarion in many separated worlds. But no, they instead of mixing 3E and 2E, decided to make 5E and 4E in their new clone edition. The two worst D&D editions. Larianshill is the unique guy who I saw who liked 4E.
     
    ^ Top  
  7. volklore Savant

    volklore
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Messages:
    368
    I don't know pathfinder APs at all. But it's pretty simple, fantasy RPGs are at their best when you spend most of the time in backwater bucolic countryside solving all kind of small to medium scale issues. I loved that about kingmaker, it could be epic but it was always somewhat relative and limited to the scale of the stolen lands which was in itself a backwater country nobody really cared much for. So anything like that which let's you breathe and adventure. Wrath is a fine game but it's just non-stop bombastic action. The moments of fantasy dreamery are too few and far between even in the beginning of the game so I don't even want to fathom what it will be towards the end.
     
    ^ Top  
  8. Meredoth Arcane

    Meredoth
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Messages:
    4,747
    Location:
    Todstein, the Nocturnal Sea
    I strongly agreed. Regional and local conflicts are way better than "saving the world" adventures. Kingmaker even at high level, is mostly focused in the river kingdom area.

    Chapter 2 of kingmaker : Congratulations, by being in teh right place at the right time, your own skills and lucky, you managed to become a baron of a very small and poor underdeveloped barony. Now go solve the troll problem attacking your barony
    Chapter 2 of WoTR : You are now the commander in chief of a crusade against demons. Go retake Constantinople Drezen and start to develop your godlike powers
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Gangrelrumbler Arcane Patron

    Gangrelrumbler
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2014
    Messages:
    3,387
    RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
    They'll never adapt a retroclone due to lack of brand recognition. They'd rather make a WFRP game or adapt literally anything else with some notoriety. I'd say the biggest incline that is at least a bit likely to happen would be for them to create their own stuff in Pathfinder universe. After seeing 2 adventure paths adapted I must say that Pazio has some of the least imaginative writers I've seen in this business. Kingmaker was just: "go to the woods and fight whatever", while WoTR was basically "let's kill shitton of demons". While it's acceptable at tabletop where you need to keep things simple, and stories created by players will spice it up it's just too bland for a video game. Even late Bioware was more engaging when it came to main stories.
    Not to mention it might help fight one of the biggest faults of Owlcat: the games are just too long, with good stuff stretched too thin. Without needing to adapt the entire 6 books in one game they'd be able to make shorter, but more polished games. Of course the problem is with Pozzie which is probably very happy for having their garbage advertised to millions of players. WoTR even included promotion of the original AP during the loading screens.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    ^ Top  
  10. Meredoth Arcane

    Meredoth
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Messages:
    4,747
    Location:
    Todstein, the Nocturnal Sea
    I strongly disagree. WoTR doesn't have a interesting story, but kingmaker has. The story is not go to woods to kill stuff. Is about a guy who got a small barony in a land close to the feyworld and the story involves ancient curses, powerful eldest fey toying with everyone, each companion with a interesting arc, a woman sold to slavery from her own mother, a chick expelled from her barbarian tribe and you have trolls being branded with fire immunity hence becoming really nasty, lamashtu creating a army of beasts and a army of undead cyclops attacking a city in the first chapters, betrayals, optional final chapter. You have a lot of mysteries to uncover and fey which is often underrepresented in fantasy gets the spotlight in kingmaker.

    The story of kingmaker is huge. Here is a video about it.
    Show Spoiler




    Not many games made Feys so interesting.

    That said, in therms of story, I believe that Iron Gods is the best and most original Adventure Path. And I also agree that a CRPG adaptation of a retroclone is extremely unlikely. Unless after PF2e, somehow a retroclone starts to get more market. It is not likely in short therm.
     
    ^ Top  
  11. Mauman Educated

    Mauman
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    187
    I keep seeing a few morons on REEEEEEEddit wanting PF2. God I hope this doesn't happen. If it does happen then Owlcat is losing a day one customer. Maybe a customer period outside of a huge sale several years down the line.

    I hate PF2
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    ^ Top  
  12. Meredoth Arcane

    Meredoth
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Messages:
    4,747
    Location:
    Todstein, the Nocturnal Sea
    Me too.

    Looks like Paizo picked the worst things from D&D 4E and 5E and combined in a single edition... In PF2e, everything deals less damage while enemies and players has way more hp. Finger of death only deals 70 damage. CR 10 creatures like a Giant flytrap can soak 3 finger of death spell, failing the save 3 times. While in 1E, Finger of Death casted at lv 15 can OHK a Giant flytrap. Hell, you can't even finger succubus since they have 100 hp. High(13+) level necromancers should be able to just point their fingers into a low and some times mid CR creature and OHK it.

    For those who hate casters, imagine if Barbarians could only rage two turns per day at lv 15+. That would be awful, right? If rogues had stuck with +1d6 sneak attack. That is how awful casting is in PF2e.

    PF2e also has Final Fantasy style of summons. Which acts like attacks. You can summon a draconic legion but it lasts only one round. That is so awful. I would rather a "Wyvern Call" spell which actually summons a wryven creature instead of just a "summon as a attack". Many of my favorite Pathfinder 1e spells doesn't exists in Pf2e.

    Where is?
    • Boneshake
    • Boneshatter
    • Ice prison
    • Ice prison ,mass
    • sirocco
    • Tsunami
    • Acid fog
    • Death Clutch
    • (...)
    All spells which 2e din't ruined, got removed.
     
    • decline decline x 1
    • Despair Despair x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. Denim Destroyer Educated

    Denim Destroyer
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2021
    Messages:
    132
    Location:
    Moonglow, Britannia
    At that point it should be renamed from "Finger of Death" to "Finger of Mild Annoyance."

    I cannot understand the obsession of removing damage while simultaneously increasing health in a tabletop games. The game quickly becomes stale if enemies take forever to be killed even by high level spells while in turn players are at no risk of dying due to having too high of a health pool. Part of the fun in these games is watching your characters overcome challenges provided by the DM and in order for that to be possible a chance to fail has to exists. If you cannot fail then your victory will ultimately be meaningless since there are no consequences for failing. Wrath of the Righteous doesn't have this problem because enemies have a chance to kill you. Compared to a game like Solasta where dying is possible but a rare occurrence due to how quickly health is gained. We can hope that among plenty of other things Paizo doesn't force 2e onto Owlcat.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. MartinK Learned

    MartinK
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2020
    Messages:
    128
    Every single of them is trash. They better write their own story set outside Girillion.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. Meredoth Arcane

    Meredoth
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Messages:
    4,747
    Location:
    Todstein, the Nocturnal Sea
    In case of Solasta, I had way more fun by setting half of enemy hp and double damage dealt to my party in my second run. It essentially double the lethality of the game.

    But I strongly agree with you. Low lethality is awful. Takes out all tension of the game. Some games like FNV are great DESPITE the low lethality, not because of it. And note that everything that a PC can cast, a NPC can cast. So, is very cool to see a powerful spell being used by a NPC and then, you becoming able to use it few hours later... IMO being able to point to someone an kill it is a part of the "necromancer class fantasy" (obviously the target should be able to try to resist it).
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2021
    ^ Top  
  16. J1M Arcane

    J1M
    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    12,081
    Would like to see something that justifies the player entering into lawful evil pacts with devils.

    Also prefer to stay out of the underdark.
     
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    ^ Top  
  17. Herumor Learned

    Herumor
    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    112
    That would be Hell's Vengeance, which the OP did not include for whatever reason.

    [​IMG]

    Why? Both men and women are equally scantily clad in this dying Earth setting. Halflings are cannibals, elves are shifty nomads that love stealing and fucking humans, and then dumping their halfbreed offspring wherever they can, plus thri-kreen who feast on said elves. So long as some books aren't used, like Mind Lords of the Last Sea, all's good.
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. CancerUnlimited Unwanted

    Unwanted
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2021
    Messages:
    53
    I voted Tranny's Grasp.
     
    ^ Top  
  19. Reinhardt Arcane

    Reinhardt
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    17,989
    As if having one finger of death adept was not enough...
     
    ^ Top  
  20. Gangrelrumbler Arcane Patron

    Gangrelrumbler
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2014
    Messages:
    3,387
    RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
    Who got a small baronny and was forced to kill different creature type every month or something. And speaking of WOTR. What was the biggest draw of the entire game and the most hyped-up part? The myhic paths. Interesting since Owlcat basically threw out the original Pazzio's mythic paths and added completely different ones. Original ones were such novel concepts like Champion - an uber fighter or Guardian - uber tank.

    Not in original AP. By adapting the APs Owlcat basically has to take a bland story, adapt it in entirety, then add their own more intersting story on top of that. They could just as well make their own story from the grounds-up.

    I wouldn't say that removing one of the two basic immunities from the troll is that interesting. Also AFAIK not in the original AP, I couldn't find troll stats but the troll king is vulnerable to both acid and fire. Funny how most of the good things you've remembered were added by Owlcat.

    I don't think that story being "monster type X" attacks is any good, it's a bloody Power Rangers episode.

    I don't really believe that the story is better if you use rare monsters. Many JRPGs use monsters never seen outside of their own titles, why does it matter? Mind you that Narissa's motivation was wholly made by Owlcat. It had nothing to do with destroying a thousand kingdoms, which I must say was actually kinda clever.

    I've finished the game.

    But plenty of games made more interesting stories on their own regardless of what creatures they used. Why is it so special that they've used a rare monster? Mass effect used sci-fi space zombies which aren't that common in RPGs either. That doesn't by itself elevates the story of Mass ffect.

    After what I've seen "the best" AP doesn't say much. Perhaps they are better when played on tabletop, I can't say.[/QUOTE][/spoiler]
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. Meredoth Arcane

    Meredoth
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Messages:
    4,747
    Location:
    Todstein, the Nocturnal Sea
    Because it is cool. The power to point the finger to someone and extinguish his life force is cool.

    ---------

    And I strongly disagree with you that fantasy and sci fi can't mix. Pathfinder : Iron Gods has potential to be even better than SW:Kotor 2. TBH most fantasy sci fi games are not great. My greatest deception was with the Technomancer from spiders. You are just a melee lightning wizard which only uses your technomancy to control machinery during cutscenes. Firearms are awful too and you have few skills to use.

    You are right in many points. OwlCat added a lot of story in the AP.

    But I partially agree with you. A Original Adventure can be great >IF< someone like Chris Avellone is in charge of making it. Talking about Chris, is truth that the unique company which din't canceled contract with him thanks to a twitter Witch Hunt, was OwlCat?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2021
    • Acknowledge this user's Agenda Acknowledge this user's Agenda x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Anonona Learned

    Anonona
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2019
    Messages:
    287
    Man, Swen is so awesome now he makes other companies' games.

    Though speaking of which, I wonder if Owlcat would be even allowed to make their own original stories using the pathfinder system. I guess it depends on the nature of their deal with Paizo. I would assume the reason they want to adapt already existing APs is because they serve in a way as "publicity" for their products. So perhaps Owlcat wouldn't even be allowed to create their own stuff without Paizo's approval I would imagine. Though it would be interesting if they did. Paizo could later on create an AP based around Owlcat's game.

    Does Paizo still promote PF e1 or are they doing like WoTC and just focusin on the newest one, e2?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2021
    • Funny Funny x 1
    ^ Top  
  23. onemananadhisdroid Augur

    onemananadhisdroid
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2007
    Messages:
    381
    Location:
    Germoney
    ^ Top  
  24. Reinhardt Arcane

    Reinhardt
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Messages:
    17,989
    First two chapters. Then you just explode screen without even looking what you fighting.
     
    ^ Top  
  25. Meredoth Arcane

    Meredoth
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Messages:
    4,747
    Location:
    Todstein, the Nocturnal Sea
    Giving too much power to the player kills any form of horror. For eg, a Zombie horde is threatening? Depends, if you have only a .357 revolver with only 5 rounds, you must make every shot count. You will avoid confrontation, try to be stealth as possible and etc. If you have a arsenal in your backpack and can throw a ridiculous high amount of grenades, they aren't threatening. I would't pick a horror AP cuz I don't think that OwlCat can deliver a good horror experience. DM a horror campaign is pretty hard, require a lot of skills for the DM to describe the situations.

    In a CRPG, require way more skills, from developers, artists, game designers, making a good horror CRPG is not easy.
     
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.