Which RPG got inventory completely right?

[DalekFlay]

Again, it simply highlights that your crafting system is pathological. If you are going to find and carry around your ore in such bulk quantities, then you should either be able to procure it easily on the spot (so buy or find it locally as needed) or not have it tracked at all, just the rare ingredients.

It sounds more like you're against the way most crafting systems are designed rather than making a solid argument against unlimited crafting resource carrying. Whether you like it or not games like Witcher do require a bunch of random bullshit that isn't right there at the crafting bench all the time, so if you had to store the bullshit elsewhere it would just create hassle for no gameplay benefit. My core point is I want unlimited crafting materials carrying in those games. If you designed a game where only rare ingredients mattered, then it would be a different story.

 

[DraQ]

Again, it simply highlights that your crafting system is pathological. If you are going to find and carry around your ore in such bulk quantities, then you should either be able to procure it easily on the spot (so buy or find it locally as needed) or not have it tracked at all, just the rare ingredients.

It sounds more like you're against the way most crafting systems are designed rather than making a solid argument against unlimited crafting resource carrying.

The way most crafting systems are designed is already a solid argument against unlimited resource carrying - it facilitates implementation and use of shit crafting systems.
Other than that there is consistency. Unlimited resource carrying breaks consistency if carrying everything else is limited. Any break in consistency needs solid reasons - what are yours?

 

[Darth Canoli]

M&M 6,7,8. With the sinful, guilty, fagoty pleasure of dressing up the big ass paperdolls.

This.

It's not perfect (i wouldn't mind more space) but it's very efficient and fast to use, you can right click equipments to fast equip them and every command is executed instantly.
I don't know what more one should expect, it should be standard for every cRPG.
And yet ...

There's nothing worse than laggy inventories.
Like in Battle Brothers, you can "fast" sell items but it lags so much you'll have to stare at your screen helplessly waiting for the engine to do its thing (like you fast sell 10 items, they're still there, you wait 10 seconds more, they start disappear one by one every 1/2 seconds ...).
There's a lot of games where drag and drop is laggy as well and you have to try a couple of times when equipping items.

 

[DalekFlay]

Other than that there is consistency. Unlimited resource carrying breaks consistency if carrying everything else is limited. Any break in consistency needs solid reasons - what are yours?

I don't accept your silly OCD premise.

 

[RNGsus]

There's nothing worse than laggy inventories.
Like in Battle Brothers, you can "fast" sell items but it lags so much you'll have to stare at your screen helplessly waiting for the engine to do its thing (like you fast sell 10 items, they're still there, you wait 10 seconds more, they start disappear one by one every 1/2 seconds ...).

Is that common?

 

[Darth Canoli]

Is that common?

It's a feature, as far as i know, you sell anything, if you fast click more than one item, this is what happens.

 

[DraQ]

Other than that there is consistency. Unlimited resource carrying breaks consistency if carrying everything else is limited. Any break in consistency needs solid reasons - what are yours?

I don't accept your silly OCD premise.

Lack of consistency generates complexity through bugs, broken abstractions and weird-ass exceptional cases that needs handling.
"WAAAH!" is not a sufficient reason for adding unnecessary complexity wherever you fucking please.

 

[DalekFlay]

Good thing I actually laid out gameplay reasons then, which you have not.

 

[DraQ]

Good thing I actually laid out gameplay reasons then, which you have not.

"It makes shittily implemented crafting harder to use" is not a gameplay reason.

 

[DalekFlay]

"It makes shittily implemented crafting harder to use" is not a gameplay reason.

We don't live in a world where you can make busywork shit better by adding more busywork and then hoping developers realize the error of their ways. Most crafting systems I've used in RPGs for 30 years now require bullshit filler resources. Your plan isn't working.

 

[Master]

Weight (numerical) is kind of redundant, as the grid and item size already simulate it in a way.

No and no.
Items can be bulky independently of being heavy.
Suit of magical or chitin armour can be light, yet bulky.
A fistful of osmium or flask of mercury will be compact, but heavy.
A lot of items you'd rather prevent player from carrying in large numbers are bulky rather than heavy.
A lot of mechanical effects you'd like to affect character are based on carried weight, not bulk.
A lot of interesting mechanical properties of item themselves are a consequence of one or the other - container capacity or ability to block a passage is a matter of bulk, what happens when you drop item on someone is a function of weight, etc.

Those two are distinct and should be handled separately.
If they are conflated, stupid shit ensues - like being able to infinitely nest barrels or chest, then drop the resulting black hole on unsuspecting enemies, or infinite cargo space in one Eve patch.

Inventory tetris is uniquely qualified for handling item size and shape in intuitive manner.
Simple counter handles weight well enough.

But it just adds busywork and is kinda autistic. You end up adding and subtracting numbers when you just want to pack something in your bag. And people dont generally inspect items for weight down to the last gram to see if they can carry it.

 

[Shadenuat]

Tetris + weight is the best they came up with yet
Unique "back" slot in ATOM which could be used either to carry shield or bag +weight was neat
Ultima Online had all the bags

 

[DraQ]

We don't live in a world where you can make busywork shit better by adding more busywork and then hoping developers realize the error of their ways. Most crafting systems I've used in RPGs for 30 years now require bullshit filler resources. Your plan isn't working.

1. PnP rpgs usually contain plethora of optional mechanics allowing tracking or omitting shit depending on playstyle. Not tracking something irrelevant is a valid choice and always removes busywork.
2. Consistent systems are a value in themselves as they can be counted to always do what they are supposed to. This includes weight system. With a consistent weight system you can, off the top of my head:
   
   • Make a pressure plate puzzle that cannot be trivially bypassed by shit carried in party inventory (due to being able to estimate how much shit can at most be carried by the party).
   • Make a reasonable scenario where a mining company specializing in extremely valuable mcguffinite (that is naturally a valuable crafting ingredient) has installed technological or magical means of preventing theft consisting of airlock-style door with a scale measuring your weight on both exit and arrival, and lock requiring some sort of id token.
   • Determine damage caused by party orc yeeting perty dorf at the enemy as well as maximum range of such attack.
   And no, being able to craft +6 sword of Fuck You out of +5 sword, 689x iron ore, 247x mithril ore, 325x erroneously solid quicksilver and 3x medium sized fertility amulet (in the form of 6'' penis made of jet) more easily is not a sufficient reason to give up reliable weight system and force extra checks or outright abandoning potentially cool concepts in every quest or scenario where weight system could be useful.

But it just adds busywork and is kinda autistic.

The genre is kinda autistic. Go play fucking madden or something if that's a problem.

You end up adding and subtracting numbers when you just want to pack something in your bag. And people dont generally inspect items for weight down to the last gram to see if they can carry it.

There's your problem - going from almost full to full inventory switches you from unencumbered to immobile.

• Encumbrance penalties can scale smoothly with encumbrance - like in Wizardry 8 or Morrowind
• Being overncumbered can still allow movement, albeit slowed down, and prevent some actions - like in Skyrim.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

This thread is dumb, as it completely depends on what the developer's intentions are. Things appropriate for hobo simulators like Ultima Underworld and NEO Scavenger (encumbrance penalities, different kinds of cointainers, crafting, and so on), would not work as well in high fantasy party-based light adventures, nor in realistic RPGs with a more distant scope like Sword of the Samurai and Expeditions: Conquistador (games that cleverly avoided most inventory crap). Most of the times having to pick up and carry all sorts of garbage is an annoyance, yet again games like Ultima VII and Divinity: Original Sin do it since they're about rewarding creative thinking and experimentation, while other games like Arcanum and Morrowind have trash items to say something about their worlds and inhabitants (simulationistic concerns).

There is no one-size-fits-all formula, only hacks think that way.

 

[Shadenuat]

What is trash item for one is a tesla cannon for another

 

[DraQ]

This thread is dumb, as it completely depends on what the developer's intentions are. Things appropriate for hobo simulators like Ultima Underworld and NEO Scavenger (encumbrance penalities, different kinds of cointainers, crafting, and so on), would not work as well in high fantasy party-based light adventures, nor in realistic RPGs with a more distant scope like Sword of the Samurai and Expeditions: Conquistador (games that cleverly avoided most inventory crap). Most of the times having to pick up and carry all sorts of garbage is an annoyance, yet again games like Ultima VII and Divinity: Original Sin do it since they're about rewarding creative thinking and experimentation, while other games like Arcanum and Morrowind have trash items to say something about their worlds and inhabitants (simulationistic concerns).

There is no one-size-fits-all formula, only hacks think that way.

That's why it's permissible to not track shit there is no point tracking.

Still, I think that you might agree that in absence of a GM comprehensive, consistent systems (usually known as simulationism) offer best opportunities for both content developers (to avoid excessive scripting) and players (to allow lateral thinking and clever solutions).

 

[Thonius]

Brigade E5: New Jagged Union did shit ton of things right, including RTWp and inventory.

 

[DalekFlay]

This thread is dumb, as it completely depends on what the developer's intentions are. Things appropriate for hobo simulators like Ultima Underworld and NEO Scavenger (encumbrance penalities, different kinds of cointainers, crafting, and so on), would not work as well in high fantasy party-based light adventures, nor in realistic RPGs with a more distant scope like Sword of the Samurai and Expeditions: Conquistador (games that cleverly avoided most inventory crap). Most of the times having to pick up and carry all sorts of garbage is an annoyance, yet again games like Ultima VII and Divinity: Original Sin do it since they're about rewarding creative thinking and experimentation, while other games like Arcanum and Morrowind have trash items to say something about their worlds and inhabitants (simulationistic concerns).

There is no one-size-fits-all formula, only hacks think that way.

In my defense, this 7 year old thread was more about offering examples of games that got it 100% right, rather than asking you to design the perfect inventory system. I agree it depends on the game to a certain degree, which is why the question was more about what inventory system you had zero issues with for that game.

 

[Barbalos]

I hate inventory management personally. Deus Ex is a nightmare for me in that regard. I also enjoyed Ultima VII a lot more once I abandoned any notion of trying to manage the inventory and just threw things around willy-nilly and worried about it later.

I liked Might and Magic 6-7 for inventory, grid-based with some management, but generous in space. Also I think Baldur's Gate is alright, kind of tight at first but you can get potion cases, scroll cases, gem bag, and the bag of holding, and I like the feeling of organization at that point and working towards that point as well.

 

[DraQ]

In my defense

Have this pair of stylish flip-flops on me.

 

[PrK]

NEO Scavenger

Spoiler

perfectly satisfies my inner autist (also, Ultima VII).

Also I think Baldur's Gate is alright, kind of tight at first but you can get potion cases, scroll cases, gem bag, and the bag of holding, and I like the feeling of organization at that point and working towards that point as well.

Weren't those an EE addition? Because I remember exploring Durlag's Tower with single gems competing with inventory space with stacks of 20 arrows..

 

[Master]

I hate inventory management personally. Deus Ex is a nightmare for me in that regard. I also enjoyed Ultima VII a lot more once I abandoned any notion of trying to manage the inventory and just threw things around willy-nilly and worried about it later.

But why DX? Its perfect...
Its not too big so there isnt much tetris. There is no stupid weight. You get a reasonable idea that bigger items are big, and smaller are small(wow!), but whats more important is you judge them by their field usefulness, not how much exactly they weigh.

 

[Barbalos]

Also I think Baldur's Gate is alright, kind of tight at first but you can get potion cases, scroll cases, gem bag, and the bag of holding, and I like the feeling of organization at that point and working towards that point as well.

Weren't those an EE addition? Because I remember exploring Durlag's Tower with single gems competing with inventory space with stacks of 20 arrows..

No, they're all in the original. I have a non-EE run going atm and they're in there. From a wiki search the capacity is increased from 20 -> 100 in the EE, though.

But why DX? Its perfect...
Its not too big so there isnt much tetris. There is no stupid weight. You get a reasonable idea that bigger items are big, and smaller are small(wow!), but whats more important is you judge them by their field usefulness, not how much exactly they weigh.

For me the fact that it was not too big made it brutal to decide what to take and keep, what to throw away when I found a new weapon or item. I was trying to do a non-lethal playthrough (gave up on that idea) when I played and having to handle that, along with grenades or larger weapons for robots, rebreathers, the Dragon Tooth, etc. etc., I hated every second I spent in that inventory screen tbh. It adds a level of realism for sure, but I found it increasingly frustrating, and felt the same in both Human Revolution and Mankind Divided as well.

 

[Shadenuat]

For me the fact that it was not too big made it brutal to decide what to take and keep, what to throw away when I found a new weapon or item.

Yes well,

that's the point and means it works.

And you don't need much for non lethal playthrough anyway.

 

[DraQ]

I hate inventory management personally. Deus Ex is a nightmare for me in that regard. I also enjoyed Ultima VII a lot more once I abandoned any notion of trying to manage the inventory and just threw things around willy-nilly and worried about it later.

But why DX? Its perfect...
Its not too big so there isnt much tetris. There is no stupid weight. You get a reasonable idea that bigger items are big, and smaller are small(wow!), but whats more important is you judge them by their field usefulness, not how much exactly they weigh.

DX:HR has better tetris than DX1:

• Item rotation
• Auto-arrange button
• Ammo