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Which RPG got inventory completely right?

Master

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
1,160
I hated having to maneouver my way around Arcanum's and Deus Ex's inventories.
Dont understand DX inventory hate. Its the opposite of Arcanum: small, few items(but cool), no ammo in inventory and no weight. You quickly decide what you should take or leave based on
1.your build and
2. the item properties.
And not on retardation such as how many grams does this gun weight.
SS2 was also good, it was bigger but in the same amount there were more items although mostly because of pickable ammo but since survival horror it made sense.
 

frajaq

Erudite
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
2,402
Location
Brazil
Deus Ex 1/HR/MD
Not an RPG but Resident Evil 4

Any inventory system where an item occupies an (relatively) appropriate size, with options to increase it later in game
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,966
Location
Russia
Arcanum is big, lots of items, and they're all cool. :shittydog: u can carry 3000 lb boulders!

and u can then throw them at gnomes!
 
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Master

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
1,160
Well yeah, Arcanum was also cool, and i didnt mind the weight there. THere were some funny situations with it.
 

Modron

Arcane
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
10,041
Arcanum is big, lots of items, and they're all cool. :shittydog: u can carry 3000 lb boulders!

and u can then throw them at gnomes!
Real men put the boulder in a quick item slot then picked up another couple thousand pounds of gear.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
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Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
I'd say it depends on the game. Let's say in a game like Morrowind. You can pick many decorative items that are completely useless gameplay-wise but many players like to use them for decorative and RP purposes, and there you get situation where you either suffer though tedium of hauling those items back and forth between your house and looting location, or you are frustrated to leave what you want behind.
Except you never actually suffered tedium because of decorative items in MW.
You might have carried some a lantern or some candlesticks (that doubled as light source), maybe some glass/silverware and a bunch of books. Compared to weapons, armour, alchemical apparatus and crapload of potions and ingredients, that tended to not be much.
Also, decorative objects imply home and home implies a location you revisit regularly - dumping any decorations you might be carrying. It's not a reasonable scenario to expect decorative objects to accumulate in inventory.

The only time I have ever had any problems was when I hauled a 50wt crystal of Adamantium ore to pimp my place, but that was me going out of my way to make my life miserable, wouldn't you agree?

Large number of items with expire-able usefulness (you out-level loot) + small inventory OR large inventory with good junk sorting features = Serviceable approaches I guess. Leaving stuff behind can feel unsatisfactory and might force you to grind if you are low on coins, gathering everything can create problems and might make money useless by it's abundance.
Good mechanics tends pull players out of their comfort zone or otherwise inconvenience them. It's not like tracking player's HPs is in game because getting killed in combat is fun. Limited inventory should result in player selecting loot/supplies for stuff that is or might be useful or has good value concentration. Possibly with tradeoffs that might cause player to forgo something useful to be able to carry something valuable or only situationally useful, but critically important if it is. That means it's a good idea to have mechanics encouraging ditching gear.

I would even argue for having specific mechanics for losing unique or quest items - the game should have them resurface randomly at some point. If you get disarmed and see your legendary artifact sword spin down the mountain top, spending half an hour looking under every bush in two mile radius, only to decide to reload and replay last two hours is not good or meaningful gameplay. Having the same sword be collected when cleaning up the area and randomly reappearing in the hands of an enemy character later on, perhaps after player stumbling upon some clues, is meaningful and memorable.

It's also vital to be able to not keep player in the dark regarding situational stuff. Hiding an epic ring in a random barrel somewhere is asinine and effectively forces player to rummage through every container. Springing a basilisk or an anti-life zone randomly on player every now and then merely forces the player to always carry a bunch of mirror-eyes pots or a skeleton to be raised and commanded.

Sure, make player work for the information, but always include some leads diligent player can be reasonably expected to find. And never break this contract. This allows player to dismiss most of the pickle barrels as just pickle barrels and assume ordinary rusty sword wielding bandit not to have +5 dagger hidden up his dirty ass.

Or maybe separate mechanics for game-play items/decorative items.
That's always a bad idea. What is a decorative item anyway? Fancy colorful candle? You can use it as light source at the very least.
Pretty much anything can be used on a pressure pate or thrown at someone/something, or used in some other way.
In Skyrim you can do the Indy trick with trapped items and clutter.
In Deus Ex you could spray someone's face with an extinguisher or toss a metal crate at someone's head.
In Morrowind you could actually enchant paper or books to make impromptu weak scrolls, etc.
In pretty much any game featuring pressure plates, you can weigh them down with whatever.

Real men put the boulder in a quick item slot then picked up another couple thousand pounds of gear.
If only the boulder was a crafting ingredient...
:hearnoevil:

note that DraQ assumes u put a shitton of loot into the game by default, because that is realistic to be able to loot every body for everything but their underwear
Preposterous - why should underwear be an exception?
:obviously:

and then you're supposed to come up with realistic design to combat your own realistic design
because realism
Łatwiej kijek pocienkować niż go potem pogrubasić.
:smug:

It's easier to devise a comprehensive system and then cut it down to size, than trying to expand a system to do things it was never meant to.

Besides, without living GM, autistically detailed systems are the only recourse if you want to have any hope for PnP-like reactivity.
If during a PnP session players suddenly declare that they want to try and escape from a room in a tower by stripping down and tying their clothes into a makeshift rope, you don't tell them
You cannot remove your clothes because they are not items in your inventory.
:retarded:
If they find out that such a rope would be too short and want to extand it with curtains you don't tell them that.
You cannot pick up the curtains. They are not interactive.
:retarded:
Why not put some effort in trying to not make your cRPG resemble the worst PnP session ever?

Also in reality many players love tons of loot and they would just mod out encumbrance because they just want to collect all the loot. at this point it is not possible to therapydesign them out of this without them downvoting your game on steam :M
I would rather rely on mods breaking my game than fixing it.
:obviously:
 

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
8,817
Limited by size.
Preferably not "sort-of limited", but one that actually limits you from carrying every useful weapon/tool in the game, forcing you to specialize. It also prevents player from hoarding loot which in some cases can easily break the economy. Limiting by weight is another option, although i don't really like it since plain visual representation is better than a weight number. Deus Ex did it right.

Specific equipment/consumables/tools slots.
For equipment it makes sense that a plate vest shouldn't take inventory space when equipped. As for consumables and tools, then it works if the inventory doesn't magically stop time (or opening it consumes action points in case of TB). Note being able to assign consumables, tools and abilities on hotkeys isn't the same as specific slots.

Different pool for keys and other mandatory items that player can't get rid of.
I don't like a clear separation between quest-related items and normal stuff, it kinda breaks the 4th wall for me, especially if an item is some garbage that your character randomly find before getting the quest. However, i understand that lack of separation may cause player to accidentally fail a quest by selling or throwing item away. Some games (like TES 4-5 for example) mix normal and quest-items into a single pool, while giving quest items zero weight stat to prevent player from becoming overencumbered with undroppable clutter, which in terms of breaking 4th wall is imo even worse. The perfect way to deal with this problem is just limit quest items to something small (like keys, keycards, notes, etc) and put them into a separate category with no size or weight limit, but it will probably create problems for quest designers.

Item descriptions with actual text.
No need for a lengthy lore-dump, just one line is enough (preferably not generic "it's a sharp sword made of steel"). Maybe a bit of a worldbuilding, anything is better than a table with hollow numbers. Fallout 1-2 did it right.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
whichever inventory system lets me horde everything, or at least have a way to store it somewhere and properly filter/organize it
PackRatFNV.png
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,966
Location
Russia
I would even argue for having specific mechanics for losing unique or quest items - the game should have them resurface randomly at some point. If you get disarmed and see your legendary artifact sword spin down the mountain top, spending half an hour looking under every bush in two mile radius, only to decide to reload and replay last two hours is not good or meaningful gameplay. Having the same sword be collected when cleaning up the area and randomly reappearing in the hands of an enemy character later on, perhaps after player stumbling upon some clues, is meaningful and memorable.
What if player reloads anyway and never sees this (which will happen for 99% of players)

Except you never actually suffered tedium because of decorative items in MW.
tell that to my tel uvirith giant ass library
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
What if player reloads anyway and never sees this (which will happen for 99% of players)
That calls for loading blurbs, multiple other events insidiously depriving player of their stuff (preferably without them noticing at first) and cheese free save system.

tell that to my tel uvirith giant ass library
That's how you tell a nouveau riche from a proper :obviously: individual - they furnish their library all at once instead of inheriting it, or, failing that, completing it over prolonged period of time.

Then they run around going "Everyone look at muh giant ass library!!!1", until someone turns them into a slaggy scorchmark out of sheer disgust.
 

PompiPompi

Man with forever hair
Patron
Developer
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
2,914
RPG Wokedex
One of the most fun inventories in gaming history is in Ultima 7.
It's not the most efficient, but it's extremely fun.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,966
Location
Russia
multiple other events insidiously depriving player of their stuff
they will downvote your game on steam for this to 0%

cheese free save system
and that I am not even sure is possible without pissing off 50% of players either
see the old thread about allowing or not allowing to reload

Like, it all sounds like good theorycrafting, but I don't remember ever implemented in practice or well.

A simple example: in Kangmaker, a halfling girl (who helped ton u to even become a ruler) takes a little bit of stuff from your treasury to buy a thing which will in the end be beneficial to you.
what u think will happen: players maybe scold her but in the end it's all ok
what happens: 200 pages of people saying they need a choice to behead the halfling and tear her eyeballs out

Modern player hates EVERYTHING they have no total control over.
 
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DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
multiple other events insidiously depriving player of their stuff
they will downvote your game on steam for this to 0%
Sell on GOG.
:troll:
Problem?
cheese free save system
and that I am not even sure is possible without pissing off 50% of players either

Like, it all sounds like good theorycrafting, but I don't remember even implemented in practice or well.
If we were limited to things someone has already invented we'd still be trying to get cubes to roll.
:smug:
In retrospect I realize that it was an insensitive thing to say on an RPG forum.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,966
Location
Russia
GOG will say your game doesn't fit their agenda, they did not allow to sell Grimoire.

It is true, experimentation is what got us the best stuff in fact, stuff we like, but nowadays u really need to tread carefully with it. And I still don't remember many games where players obviously lose their stuff.

Well there was Ultima Online where PKs would murder your horse, you, take your ore, your items, and leave you a ghost to BOOOO around. There is EVE online etc. Single player tho? Well in Spehh Rangers other guys collect junk and loot I guess.
 

PsychoFox

Educated
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
293
Location
(P___q)
I prefer a system where carry weight is unlimited BUT the game's economy is still balanced by following supply and demand model (the more copies of an item you sell, the lower it's overall value becomes).
 

HarveyBirdman

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Messages
1,044
None to my knowledge.
It always feels ridiculous carrying around 30 x 30 feet of spoils. Tetris inventories tried to address the problem, but they sucked.
 

gunman

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
1,050
Ultima games had the most realistic inventory system. Weight limitation and freedom to move around any item in the backpack. Although without some UI buttons to make arrangements quickly it became no fun, since you had to move by hand throngs of items instead of focusing on the story
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
8,071
EQ:

2b9f00beed082661bd8515cad63390de--videogames-addiction.jpg


Good amount of gear slots, nice use of encumbrance that can be a trade off with different bog slots, at least originally: buying 8-slot bags sounds like a no brainer for casters, but the price came from the bags weight eating up most of a casters encumbrance leaving them little room to really use the extra slots unless they accept going over it resulting in many sticking with 6 slot ones due to how either or gear stats were originally that meant casters often didn't improve their str much. There were also other factors, like being able to cast clickie items from inventory slots, but not from bags, leaving you to either give up a bag slot to have the clickie be there to use instantly, or to keep it in a bag and remove it and swap to cast with the bag on your cursor, which came with the cost of an extra second or so to do it which really mattered in PvP.

Then there was the added issues Monks dealt with with their even more stringent weight restrictions.

I wish RPGs would go even more into gear slots, not just the two bracers like EQ, but two hand and foot slots, more fingers for rings, a breastplate slot, but also one for padding so plate classes would have BP and some gambeson or something under it.
 
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Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
8,071
Witcher 1 (after EE)

I liked what it did to stop the player from hoovering up swords and shit to dump on vendors for tons of money. With the main/secondary wep slots you could opt to ignore the secondary slot and use it to pick up enemy weps for some extra cash. The only trouble was the secondary weps were largely useless so there was no trade off to using the slot that way.
 
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Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
8,071
Hoarding is a disorder. Sell all that shit or let it rot where it sits. DO NOT GRAB IT!!! Ever..

The problem is in those games where you can't afford shit if you don't do it.

Witcher 1 restricted that wonderfully but let you have a choice that couldn't become an OCD issue. You simply focused on finding out what was the biggest selling item dropping off human enemies and grabbing one to bring back to town for a bit more money every time you did. After you left corpses I can't recall how the game handled item despawn, but I never felt it allowed for you to run back and forth grabbing them all up one by one to maximize your profits if anyone was insane enough to try.
 

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