Incline Who actually likes level caps?

[Not.AI]

I don't. At all. What about you?

Why do level caps exist?

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Why?

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I think it's just a lazy way to make skillpoint allocation choices more significant and artificially more meaningful, when a game otherwise happened to be designed in a way that those choices are not, in themselves, significant or meaningful. Some games recognize this, and make the cap entirely irrelevant, by allowing points to be reallocated whenever. No level cap or reallocation being the simplest solutions to lack of balance. Free roam games per se cannot have perfect balance. The player can go places and choose fights out of order.

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Didn't fuck up the poll this time. He he he.

I also like the spoiler tag feature.

 

[Falksi]

They exist to offer a symmetrical alternative to the usual modern day "bad boy" look.

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[Lord_Potato]

It's easier to balance a game around a character with fixed number of levels/skillpoints and also discourages grinding.

However in my experience the cap is placed so low I often achieve it mid-game, which makes the other half much more boring because my PC(s) stop developing.

 

[Cryomancer]

Some games just limits how much XP you can obtain with no way to farm mobs or anything like it, the most iconic example is Ravenloft : Strahd possession, the limit is about 400k xp at end game. Meaning a bit above lv 11 for magic users.

What I really hate is a hard level cap in some 2E games. The most iconic example is Dark Sun : Shattered Lands. Unless you multiclass, you will gonna reach lv 9 in less than half of the game. I prefer a XP cap over lv cap in cases like this. In the case of Ravenloft : Stone prophet, if you multiclassed, even if you imported a completionist save from Strahd possession, you will not gonna be able to memorize 6th tier spells. In Baldur's Gate 1/2, there is no "lv cap", only "xp cap" which IMO is a better approach.

In Gothic 1/2/3, there are no "respawns" and ways to grind; The amount of XP which you can obtain in the world adventuring is limited.

It's easier to balance

Is easier to balance if the entire game is designed around a very specific class, race and stats. Doesn't mean more fun, balance is often against fun and immersion(see 4e)

 

[Nekot-The-Brave]

I don't like level caps, but I can see 'why' they're implemented in a sense. Mainly because you don't want to develop too much progression because that costs time and money, so you cap it because it saves time and money. It's 'easy' to 'balance' a game across a certain level anyways since that's what the whole point of progression is about, so if your players are are too high level, that's both yours and their fault and just let them do it.

 

[Delterius]

I'm not really big on outleveling content. Or grinding exp. So I don't mind level caps at all.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

If you remove enemy respawing, you don't need level cap.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

i hate caps, especially in fantasy, worst of the worst is fantasy inhabited by godlike wizards and whose lore allows the creation of powerful artifacts. i demand to be able to reach their level. i wish vivec were stronger.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

Don't care one way or another. As long as I'm not Little Anthony pointing his finger at the game's toughest boss by mid or end-game and saying, "Be dead, baddie! You be dead!" and they instantly drop (this pretty much happened to me with M&M6), I'm good.

 

[lukaszek]

its actually lack of lvl/skill caps that is lazy design.

For example instead of spending few minutes and have proper tresholds on unlock skill to handle all chests, you make skill unlimited and success is percentage that slowly approaches 100%, but never quite. 99.9999

 

[Lacrymas]

The problem in basically all RPGs with a level cap is that you can reach it halfway through the game. Devs just have to be able to better pace the xp gain. No level caps is meaningless to me.

 

[Not.AI]

i wish vivec were stronger.

100%

Mainly because you don't want to develop too much progression because that costs time and money, so you cap it because it saves time and money.

That's also my hypothesis why so many studios put in level caps.

Fixed XP like in Gothic is much better and can be more balanced. There is more than enough XP, it means unique content, and it means the final level actually reached mid-game is never just one.

 

[Dodo1610]

because having 9999 Health 9999 Strength ... and so forth makes no sense and breakes balancing.

 

[Cryomancer]

The problem in basically all RPGs with a level cap is that you can reach it halfway through the game. Devs just have to be able to better pace the xp gain. No level caps is meaningless to me.

Strange. Are you not one of the guys advocating for lv cap = 9 in bg3 and Solasta? And saying that the game breaks when PC's get a stronghold? Despite owning a stronghold being successful implemented in NWN2 OC and BG2:SoA?

because having 9999 Health 9999 Strength ... and so forth makes no sense and breakes balancing.

Yep. Every game with no lv cap allows PC's to reach ridiculous power /sarcasm

NOw seriously, if the amount of XP that you can obtain is limited, there is no need for a level cap. And the excessive focus in balance is what makes 4e so boring.

 

[NJClaw]

Having a level cap is what made the Balor fight in Temple of Elemental Evil so memorable to me. That encounter wouldn't be nearly as interesting if you were allowed to reach higher levels.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

I don't like them, but for a while, the '80s and a bit of the '90s, having limits prevented games from running into all sorts of fun errors. It was more necessary in a time when memory was heavily limited, when every bit was precious. Now that we waste those bytes in having games that are simply leaking memory, it doesn't feel nearly as important.

 

[mondblut]

Insecure devs are mortified that those nasty gamers will break their precious game balinse.

 

[mondblut]

because having 9999 Health 9999 Strength ... and so forth makes no sense and breakes balancing.

Good.

 

[Butter]

Japs like to sit there grinding random encounters for 200 hours. Someone has to housebreak them.

 

[wishbonetail]

I wouldn't mind level caps if most RPGs would have introduced some interesting gameplay features, like puzzles, or engaging story, or exploration, aside from character building. But,unfortunatelly, in most RPGs character progression is the only incentive to go on.

 

[Lhynn]

Fuck off with those level caps.

 

[octavius]

I don't like taxes. But I understand they are needed.

 

[Lacrymas]

The problem in basically all RPGs with a level cap is that you can reach it halfway through the game. Devs just have to be able to better pace the xp gain. No level caps is meaningless to me.

Strange. Are you not one of the guys advocating for lv cap = 9 in bg3 and Solasta? And saying that the game breaks when PC's get a stronghold? Despite owning a stronghold being successful implemented in NWN2 OC and BG2:SoA?

Yes? If it wasn't clear, I want level caps with better xp pacing. Getting a stronghold is also meaningless noise to me.

 

[Spukrian]

I don't like level caps. Actually I don't like levels, I prefer other ways of advancing a character.

 

[deama]

Leveling has always irked me, it never really feels as natural as it should.
Killing mobs with exp presents the annoyance of caps (whether xp or lvl) as well as not making that much sense, because e.g. in gothic games, lets say you had access to the entire world, and you went ahead and decided to exterminate the entire wild life in the world, you'd effectively become a god? Or even greater than a god?
I also don't like the idea of being forced to have to kill enemies, otherwise I am missing out on exp that may or may not come back to bite me in the ass later on.

I think the best progression would be something like artifact-vania based, where you find certain rare-ish artifacts that advance your "level", maybe sprinkle in a few lesser artifacts to boost more mundane stats, effectively a metroidvania approach I suppose, that seems to be the best way of doing it while keeping the lore of the game intact.