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Decline Why 4 party members?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by turkishronin, Jul 23, 2020.

  1. turkishronin Arcane

    turkishronin
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    I have noticed this trend in most new RPGs, even RPGs that are spiritual successors to old titles(like BG3) that they are abandoning the traditional party size of 6 in favor 4. I wonder what could be the reason for that? Will we witness RPGs with 3 or even 2 party members limit in the future?
     
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  2. OldSkoolKamikaze Arcane Patron

    OldSkoolKamikaze
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    Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    I imagine it makes the game easier to balance. Less variables. I know I was pissed when I found out the transition from Exile to Avernum cut the party members from 6 to 4.
     
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  3. Red Panda Sleeping the big sleep Patron

    Red Panda
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    I blame Bioware.
     
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  4. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    might have something to do with pnp modules going from being designed for 8-10 players to 4-6 players.
     
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  5. Mysterious Stranger Augur

    Mysterious Stranger
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    Probably Consoles are to blame somehow.
     
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  6. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    PnP tradition is about 4. And larger numbers can feel like a crowd.
     
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  7. Darth Canoli Magister

    Darth Canoli
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    All of the above, simplify and sawyer the shit out of cRPG so only consoletards find them fun (and simple enough) to play.

    That's where the big money is, selling to the dumb masses but to achieve that, you need to turn your game into some white sugar, aka sugar stripped of its colors and nutrients.
     
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  8. Bester ⚰️☠️⚱️ Patron Vatnik

    Bester
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    That's only true, because >4 people will have to wait long enough for their turn to start some side conversation about random stuff, which distracts everyone, and will take longer for them to jump back into action when it actually is their turn.
    Computers don't have this problem.
     
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  9. Metronome Educated

    Metronome
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    Less commands to input make for faster paced gameplay?
     
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  10. Shadenuat Arcane

    Shadenuat
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    fuck pnp tradition. pnp tradition is based on how many of your friends didn't get stoned on friday and can come to flat sit table n play.

    you want a more complicated party than fighter rogue mage cleric in a computer combat rpg.

    blobbers had and can have more than 8+ and they're correct. wargames with hexes can have 12+ units and mercenaries and summons.
     
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  11. Ismaul Citizen First Class #3333 Patron

    Ismaul
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    gangbang rules

    1 girl, 3 holes to fill
     
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  12. Ismaul Citizen First Class #3333 Patron

    Ismaul
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    But really it's about the 4 complementary roles or classes: fighter, rogue, cleric, wizard.

    Or in other words: tank, explorer, healer / support, adaptable toolkit / wildcard. 4 gameplays.

    Every extra member you add in the party is going to overlap with the others in some ways.
     
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  13. Morpheus Kitami Educated

    Morpheus Kitami
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    Because that's what most JRPGs have. Oh, you think that isn't comparable? You naive sod.
     
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  14. ProphetSword Arcane Developer

    ProphetSword
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    I assume it’s to allow the player to fill in the four traditional roles:
    1 Warrior/Tank/Brawler
    2 Thief/Specialist/Skill-Whore
    3 Cleric/Healer/Medic
    4 Wizard/Sorcerer/Tech-Specialist
     
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  15. Shadenuat Arcane

    Shadenuat
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    and thus leave out all cool classes like bards druids on a shelf.
     
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  16. Zed Duke of Banville Zo Kath Ra Patron

    Zed Duke of Banville
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    Dungeons & Dragons developed from miniatures wargaming, and the typical number of players in early campaigns could easily reach double digits. The earliest adventure modules published by TSR usually assumed around 9 or 10 player-characters, and, although expectations of party size soon diminished somewhat, the range of 6 to 8 remained typical through the late '80s. 4 would be considered the minimum party size for D&D to be playable.
     
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  17. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    L1 party, someone who can kill these rats. Someone who can curre rabbies from these rats, and heal wound when a rat was surprisingly lucky. Someone who can solve that puzzle. And someone who's head will not change into big ball full of tentacles when he'd read that scroll.

    L18 party. I'm EVIL OVERLORD AND I GOT ARTEFACTS that allows me to cast spells like a wizard, yay.
    Yay. I got a thief guild.
    Yay, I become fucking lich.
    Using all skills that he learned from other party members to hide from selfish people who discovered his attempt to make an organization that would help people, and also manage to earn enough money to be self sufficient was so successful that organization is RICH, and they can get all that stuff when they would frame him and take all that stuff. Hope his letters to his old party members actually arrive, and his old party members arrive in time to save him.

    Yea it always ends like that. And then perhaps cataclysmic disaster on the whole country.
     
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  18. frajaq Arbiter

    frajaq
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    its a nice number
     
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  19. Dodo1610 Magister

    Dodo1610
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    My guess is that fully fleshed out companions played a role and the bigger the party the bigger the pool of companions has to be. So devs reduce the party size so now they only needed to write 6-8 companions.
    Also Coop even today you still can't plug in more than 4 controllers at the same time.
    And obviously manging 6 characters in real-time is a pain that most devs just solved by using trash encounters that needed to no player input to win.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
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  20. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    I no longer feel like I'm roleplaying when I'm not controlling one or few characters. Feels more like a strategy game when it gets to 6-8+.
     
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  21. Metronome Educated

    Metronome
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    That reminds me of something I don't like in games with huge parties. You have space for every class and typically the developer expects you to use them all.
     
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  22. Crispy I'm trying to improve my attitude. Undisputed Queen of Faggotry

    Crispy
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    Imagine a 4-member party attempting to clear out the Tomb of Horrors.

    Acererak would get so bored with no one ever actually reaching his room.
     
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  23. Butter Arcane

    Butter
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    There were plenty of games with 4 or even fewer party members in the 80s and 90s. M&M6, EotB, Stone Prophet, Lands of Lore, etc.
     
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  24. The Avatar Learned

    The Avatar
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    In turn-based, it makes the combat drag on too long, assuming you are also adding more enemies to balance the increase in party size. In real-time it becomes too much of a chaotic clusterfuck.

    Also, the more party members you have, the longer is takes to go through the level up process and do equipment/inventory management on those party members.
     
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  25. oldmanpaco Master of Siestas

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    And bioware has been a console developer since kotor.
     
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