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Decline Why do MMOs suck so much?

Jadeite

Educated
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Messages
81
RPGs are realistic games about reality
fakenews.png


Oh that's clever, how do I do that? 'Words in the English language often have multiple meanings. Pleasant and well-adjusted people aren't mean spirited pedants.' STAMP: IGNORED.
 

Morenatsu.

Liturgist
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
2,578
Location
The Centre of the World
Look man, I don't really care. I didn't come here to argue. My point is Everquest has no purpose, no plot, no meaning. It's not a realistic game. It's a hunting game, a shooting gallery. You're welcome to enlighten me what the point or purpose of it is, but I won't discuss it beyond that.
The game is only as serious as you want it to be. No plot? Good. Make your own adventures. You can't? You think it's silly? There's too much combat in a genre that's entirely about adventurers who fight monsters? Well, it sounds to me that you don't like roleplaying.
 

Poseidon00

Arcane
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
2,039
My point is Everquest has no purpose, no plot, no meaning. It's not a realistic game.

I think a life with no purpose, plot, or meaning is very realistic actually.

But seriously, I liked the old MMOs like this and Runescape that had non combat skills like fishing, enchanting, blacksmithing etc. that let you play the game a different way. This ideas were being developed and could have been great by today but instead MMOs became distilled cancer.
 

Jadeite

Educated
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Messages
81
My point is Everquest has no purpose, no plot, no meaning. It's not a realistic game.

I think a life with no purpose, plot, or meaning is very realistic actually.

Yep, so exit EQ and do something useful in the community, pay more attention to your children or wife, learn something, etc. There are some useful purposes in our lives, just not in EQ.

But seriously, I liked the old MMOs like this and Runescape that had non combat skills like fishing, enchanting, blacksmithing etc. that let you play the game a different way. This ideas were being developed and could have been great by today but instead MMOs became distilled cancer.

'MMORPGs' are a dead-end. This is illustrated by the fact that Armageddon MUD, created in '91, and a thousand times ideologically superior to any MMORPG, is still around 30 years later, whereas UO, a much more inferior game, barely lasted 3. Second Life came out in 2003 and is still around 18 year later, more or less unchanged. I'm not even sure UO still couldn't be profitable today, I think the companies care so little about these games, they just throw them away like garbage. But realistically UO was never on solid ground. Just read about Deathlord from '87 to learn about EA. Nevertheless same thing happened to Shadowbane too for instance. Maybe graphical games (other than Second Life) just aren't sustainable, server wise.

EDIT: Wait--why did I mention Shadowbane? That was nothing like UO. Now they've got me doing it too.
 
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Morenatsu.

Liturgist
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
2,578
Location
The Centre of the World
My point is Everquest has no purpose, no plot, no meaning. It's not a realistic game.

I think a life with no purpose, plot, or meaning is very realistic actually.

Yep, so exit EQ and do something useful in the community, pay more attention to your children or wife, learn something, etc. There are some useful purposes in our lives, just not in EQ.
Personally, I find that playing a kshatriya in a video game is more fulfilling than LARPing a vaishya in real life, but I guess that won't ever stop fags from insisting that everyone participate in normie life.
 

roll-a-die

Magister
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
3,131
Filthy communist ideas about sharing information, and equity of investment.

In essence, MMO's suck because you don't have to put effort into them, to learn them, to grow with them, and to adapt too them. You don't have to develop and invest in a community.

MMO's nowadays suck, because there's typically a win button for everything outside the tippy top end content. And even then, in genre shapers like WoW, that tippy top end can be disgustingly communistic, and basically anyone can do them once the patterns have been cheesed out by the top end. Creating an expectation that you will eventually see all the content of a given area, instead of a desire to seek out that content.
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
7,530
Location
Kelethin
Look man, I don't really care. I didn't come here to argue. My point is Everquest has no purpose, no plot, no meaning. It's not a realistic game. It's a hunting game, a shooting gallery. You're welcome to enlighten me what the point or purpose of it is, but I won't discuss it beyond that.

https://everquest.fandom.com/wiki/Lore

It probably has more plots and lore than any other game ever made.

The "purpose" was different for different people. The first person I met in the game was a 50 year old man running his own business, he was working all day and left his character sitting in town. All he did was crafting. My real life friend was similar, he sucked at fighting but he liked bargaining with people and would buy and sell items, got rich trading, met a girl in the game and married her in real life. My other friend like raiding and lead his own guild. I preferred soloing or playing in groups. My guild was run by a husband and wife, she was a stay at home mom and only really played for chatting to the 50+ people in the guild, occasionally the guild would drag her on an adventure and she clicked heals. But the skill cap was massive, so the difference between her and some hardcore gamer with a 20 button mouse, doing dungeons by himself... it was like different games. For me the purpose was to try to be like that. Going to a difficult place with a group was the most intense and tactical combat I've ever seen, nothing else comes close.

As for 'meaning' I don't know what any game means. People like to get absorbed in books or movies, games too. EQ was so complex that it could be a full time hobby for some people, especially if they liked doing raids. That required a good leader, good organisers in the guild, scheduling etc. I didn't like that, I just liked going on an adventure with a party.

As for "realistic" I think it is as good as anything. It is a game with magic and dragons and stuff so by realism I assume you mean in a consistent logic sort of way? That's one thing it should be praised for if anything. It had a world that was realistic with ports served by boats, travelling merchants, ambushing bandits, farmlands etc. Each race started in their own home town with their own cultures. Frost creatures resist cold magic, fire enemies resist fire etc. Players needed food/drink, stamina, you can fall to your death, drown under water, bleed to death, get diseases that lasted until someone cured it. Everything had a faction so killing merchants or guards or something had a consequence. It was as
rating_prestigious.png
as anything.

The hunting thing is mostly true but I don't see how that is a problem? Lots of RPGs are more combat focused, for me that is a plus. The shooting gallery thing is not true at all, it was finely tuned tactical battles and it was very complex and difficult to win. People could spend hours infiltrating somewhere carefully just to kill 1 dangerous enemy. It's the opposite of a shooting gallery. The weird thing with this game is you are reacting to things that are mostly extreme reactions by the devs to things that used to be the extreme opposite. In other words EQ was known for taking 3 hours to travel to a dungeon, then another hour to find the area you want and buff up and prepare. And then you finally engage and it all goes horribly wrong and everyone dies and now you have a 3 hour corpse recovery job when you would rather just go to bed. It was brutal but that was partly what made it addictive, you wanted to overcome the harsh challenge that was set. That was the hook with early EQ. All that is long gone.
 
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Jadeite

Educated
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Messages
81
Look man, I don't really care. I didn't come here to argue. My point is Everquest has no purpose, no plot, no meaning. It's not a realistic game. It's a hunting game, a shooting gallery. You're welcome to enlighten me what the point or purpose of it is, but I won't discuss it beyond that.

https://everquest.fandom.com/wiki/Lore

It probably has more plots and lore than any other game ever made.

The "purpose" was different for different people. The first person I met in the game was a 50 year old man running his own business, he was working all day and left his character sitting in town. All he did was crafting. My real life friend was similar, he sucked at fighting but he liked bargaining with people and would buy and sell items, got rich trading, met a girl in the game and married her in real life. My other friend like raiding and lead his own guild. I preferred soloing or playing in groups. My guild was run by a husband and wife, she was a stay at home mom and only really played for chatting to the 50+ people in the guild, occasionally the guild would drag her on an adventure and she clicked heals. But the skill cap was massive, so the difference between her and some hardcore gamer with a 20 button mouse, doing dungeons by himself... it was like different games. For me the purpose was to try to be like that. Going to a difficult place with a group was the most intense and tactical combat I've ever seen, nothing else comes close.

As for 'meaning' I don't know what any game means. People like to get absorbed in books or movies, games too. EQ was so complex that it could be a full time hobby for some people, especially if they liked doing raids. That required a good leader, good organisers in the guild, scheduling etc. I didn't like that, I just liked going on an adventure with a party.

As for "realistic" I think it is as good as anything. It is a game with magic and dragons and stuff so by realism I assume you mean in a consistent logic sort of way? That's one thing it should be praised for if anything. It had a world that was realistic with ports served by boats, travelling merchants, ambushing bandits, farmlands etc. Frost creatures resist cold magic, fire enemies resist fire etc. Players needed food/drink, stamina, you can fall to your death, drown under water, bleed to death, get diseases that lasted until someone cured it. Everything had a faction so killing merchants or guards or something had a consequence. It was as
rating_prestigious.png
as anything.

The hunting thing is mostly true but I don't see how that is a problem? Lots of RPGs are more combat focused, for me that is a plus. The shooting gallery thing is not true at all, it was finely tuned tactical battles and it was very complex and difficult to win. People could spend hours infiltrating somewhere carefully just to kill 1 dangerous enemy. It's the opposite of a shooting gallery. The weird thing with this game is you are reacting to things that are mostly extreme reactions by the devs to things that used to be the extreme opposite. In other words EQ was known for taking 3 hours to travel to a dungeon, then another hour to find the area you want and buff up and prepare. And then you finally engage and it all goes horribly wrong and everyone dies and now you have a 3 hour corpse recovery job when you would rather just go to bed. It was brutal but that was partly what made it addictive, you wanted to overcome the harsh challenge that was set. That was the hook with early EQ. All that is long gone.

O.K. man this is getting old. Look, DIKU MUDs have never had a purpose. You refute that, you're not too bright. They're games where you represent an invulnerable entity that murders the country side just to entertain himself. They're degenerate games for stupid people.

See, making a game like Everquest and giving it a purpose would require a little thought. It might require the players to do more than club things over the head. DIKU Mudders don't do more than club things over the head. DIKU is to MUDs as the N.E.S. was to the VCS. It's nice they included those glossy twenty page manuals with the games, but other than the story (big assumption here) there was no need to look at them. You held down the right arrow and shot anything that moved.

EQ has no purpose. No need to write a novel to me. You're attached to it because of the graphics. Cool. I don't give a rip about 'graphics'. So I'm only discussing the game. If EQ were in text it would be the same garbage as every other DIKU MUD, I don't play DIKU MUDs because I'm not a cro magnon neanderthal. There's better games out there. Worship the graphics if you wish, but don't expect any more responses from me on the billionth pointless DIKU MUD. Believe it or not I actually come here to see if anyone has ideas for online RPGs that aren't complete crap. Someone recommending a DIKU MUD (but it was the first 3-D DIKU MUD! Look you could actually do something mildly intelligent in it (after you killed 200 rats) at least for a year or two till Sony slashed and burned it!) is about as annoying as it gets. Yeah MMORPGs suck, thanks for the daily reminder. Something about 110 slaves working for Sony on a $3 million budget doesn't make a good game. Hum. I'll ponder that.

In the meantime I think Second Life and RPI MUDs may be the only good online worlds. You're welcome to comment on that, but as to this little game we're playing, it's like I'm feeding something into a broken amplifier, it always comes back distorted. I'm not gonna listen any more.
 
Last edited:

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
7,530
Location
Kelethin
Look man, I don't really care. I didn't come here to argue. My point is Everquest has no purpose, no plot, no meaning. It's not a realistic game. It's a hunting game, a shooting gallery. You're welcome to enlighten me what the point or purpose of it is, but I won't discuss it beyond that.

https://everquest.fandom.com/wiki/Lore

It probably has more plots and lore than any other game ever made.

The "purpose" was different for different people. The first person I met in the game was a 50 year old man running his own business, he was working all day and left his character sitting in town. All he did was crafting. My real life friend was similar, he sucked at fighting but he liked bargaining with people and would buy and sell items, got rich trading, met a girl in the game and married her in real life. My other friend like raiding and lead his own guild. I preferred soloing or playing in groups. My guild was run by a husband and wife, she was a stay at home mom and only really played for chatting to the 50+ people in the guild, occasionally the guild would drag her on an adventure and she clicked heals. But the skill cap was massive, so the difference between her and some hardcore gamer with a 20 button mouse, doing dungeons by himself... it was like different games. For me the purpose was to try to be like that. Going to a difficult place with a group was the most intense and tactical combat I've ever seen, nothing else comes close.

As for 'meaning' I don't know what any game means. People like to get absorbed in books or movies, games too. EQ was so complex that it could be a full time hobby for some people, especially if they liked doing raids. That required a good leader, good organisers in the guild, scheduling etc. I didn't like that, I just liked going on an adventure with a party.

As for "realistic" I think it is as good as anything. It is a game with magic and dragons and stuff so by realism I assume you mean in a consistent logic sort of way? That's one thing it should be praised for if anything. It had a world that was realistic with ports served by boats, travelling merchants, ambushing bandits, farmlands etc. Frost creatures resist cold magic, fire enemies resist fire etc. Players needed food/drink, stamina, you can fall to your death, drown under water, bleed to death, get diseases that lasted until someone cured it. Everything had a faction so killing merchants or guards or something had a consequence. It was as
rating_prestigious.png
as anything.

The hunting thing is mostly true but I don't see how that is a problem? Lots of RPGs are more combat focused, for me that is a plus. The shooting gallery thing is not true at all, it was finely tuned tactical battles and it was very complex and difficult to win. People could spend hours infiltrating somewhere carefully just to kill 1 dangerous enemy. It's the opposite of a shooting gallery. The weird thing with this game is you are reacting to things that are mostly extreme reactions by the devs to things that used to be the extreme opposite. In other words EQ was known for taking 3 hours to travel to a dungeon, then another hour to find the area you want and buff up and prepare. And then you finally engage and it all goes horribly wrong and everyone dies and now you have a 3 hour corpse recovery job when you would rather just go to bed. It was brutal but that was partly what made it addictive, you wanted to overcome the harsh challenge that was set. That was the hook with early EQ. All that is long gone.

O.K. man this is getting old. Look, DIKU MUDs have never had a purpose. You refute that, you're not too bright. They're games where you represent an invulnerable entity that murders the country side just to entertain himself. They're degenerate games for stupid people.

See, making a game like Everquest and giving it a purpose would require a little thought. It might require the players to do more than club things over the head. DIKU Mudders don't do more than club things over the head. DIKU is to MUDs as the N.E.S. was to the VCS. It's nice they included those glossy twenty page manuals with the games, but other than the story (big assumption here) there was no need to look at them. You held down the right arrow and shot anything that moved.

EQ has no purpose. No need to write a novel to me. You're attached to it because of the graphics. Cool. I don't give a rip about 'graphics'. So I'm only discussing the game. If EQ were in text it would be the same garbage as every other DIKU MUD, I don't play DIKU MUDs because I'm not a cro magnon neanderthal. There's better games out there. Worship the graphics if you wish, but don't expect any more responses from me on the billionth pointless DIKU MUD. Believe it or not I actually come here to see if anyone has ideas for online RPGs that aren't complete crap. Someone recommending a DIKU MUD (but it was the first 3-D DIKU MUD! Look you could actually do something mildly intelligent in it (after you killed 200 rats) at least for a year or two till Sony slashed and burned it!) is about as annoying as it gets. Yeah MMORPGs suck, thanks for the daily reminder. Something about 110 slaves working for Sony on a $3 million budget doesn't make a good game. Hum. I'll ponder that.

In the meantime I think Second Life and RPI MUDs may be the only good online worlds. You're welcome to comment on that, but as to this little game we're playing, it's like I'm feeding something into a broken amplifier, it always comes back distorted. I'm not gonna listen any more.

I thought you were just misguided and wanted to understand but you seem to be a crazy cunt so you can go fuck yourself. I don't know Second Life, I was happy to explain why you are completely wrong about EQ and some other stuff but not if you are a weird aspie retard which you clearly are.
 

roll-a-die

Magister
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
3,131
Look man, I don't really care. I didn't come here to argue. My point is Everquest has no purpose, no plot, no meaning. It's not a realistic game. It's a hunting game, a shooting gallery. You're welcome to enlighten me what the point or purpose of it is, but I won't discuss it beyond that.

https://everquest.fandom.com/wiki/Lore

It probably has more plots and lore than any other game ever made.

The "purpose" was different for different people. The first person I met in the game was a 50 year old man running his own business, he was working all day and left his character sitting in town. All he did was crafting. My real life friend was similar, he sucked at fighting but he liked bargaining with people and would buy and sell items, got rich trading, met a girl in the game and married her in real life. My other friend like raiding and lead his own guild. I preferred soloing or playing in groups. My guild was run by a husband and wife, she was a stay at home mom and only really played for chatting to the 50+ people in the guild, occasionally the guild would drag her on an adventure and she clicked heals. But the skill cap was massive, so the difference between her and some hardcore gamer with a 20 button mouse, doing dungeons by himself... it was like different games. For me the purpose was to try to be like that. Going to a difficult place with a group was the most intense and tactical combat I've ever seen, nothing else comes close.

As for 'meaning' I don't know what any game means. People like to get absorbed in books or movies, games too. EQ was so complex that it could be a full time hobby for some people, especially if they liked doing raids. That required a good leader, good organisers in the guild, scheduling etc. I didn't like that, I just liked going on an adventure with a party.

As for "realistic" I think it is as good as anything. It is a game with magic and dragons and stuff so by realism I assume you mean in a consistent logic sort of way? That's one thing it should be praised for if anything. It had a world that was realistic with ports served by boats, travelling merchants, ambushing bandits, farmlands etc. Frost creatures resist cold magic, fire enemies resist fire etc. Players needed food/drink, stamina, you can fall to your death, drown under water, bleed to death, get diseases that lasted until someone cured it. Everything had a faction so killing merchants or guards or something had a consequence. It was as
rating_prestigious.png
as anything.

The hunting thing is mostly true but I don't see how that is a problem? Lots of RPGs are more combat focused, for me that is a plus. The shooting gallery thing is not true at all, it was finely tuned tactical battles and it was very complex and difficult to win. People could spend hours infiltrating somewhere carefully just to kill 1 dangerous enemy. It's the opposite of a shooting gallery. The weird thing with this game is you are reacting to things that are mostly extreme reactions by the devs to things that used to be the extreme opposite. In other words EQ was known for taking 3 hours to travel to a dungeon, then another hour to find the area you want and buff up and prepare. And then you finally engage and it all goes horribly wrong and everyone dies and now you have a 3 hour corpse recovery job when you would rather just go to bed. It was brutal but that was partly what made it addictive, you wanted to overcome the harsh challenge that was set. That was the hook with early EQ. All that is long gone.

O.K. man this is getting old. Look, DIKU MUDs have never had a purpose. You refute that, you're not too bright. They're games where you represent an invulnerable entity that murders the country side just to entertain himself. They're degenerate games for stupid people.

See, making a game like Everquest and giving it a purpose would require a little thought. It might require the players to do more than club things over the head. DIKU Mudders don't do more than club things over the head. DIKU is to MUDs as the N.E.S. was to the VCS. It's nice they included those glossy twenty page manuals with the games, but other than the story (big assumption here) there was no need to look at them. You held down the right arrow and shot anything that moved.

EQ has no purpose. No need to write a novel to me. You're attached to it because of the graphics. Cool. I don't give a rip about 'graphics'. So I'm only discussing the game. If EQ were in text it would be the same garbage as every other DIKU MUD, I don't play DIKU MUDs because I'm not a cro magnon neanderthal. There's better games out there. Worship the graphics if you wish, but don't expect any more responses from me on the billionth pointless DIKU MUD. Believe it or not I actually come here to see if anyone has ideas for online RPGs that aren't complete crap. Someone recommending a DIKU MUD (but it was the first 3-D DIKU MUD! Look you could actually do something mildly intelligent in it (after you killed 200 rats) at least for a year or two till Sony slashed and burned it!) is about as annoying as it gets. Yeah MMORPGs suck, thanks for the daily reminder. Something about 110 slaves working for Sony on a $3 million budget doesn't make a good game. Hum. I'll ponder that.

In the meantime I think Second Life and RPI MUDs may be the only good online worlds. You're welcome to comment on that, but as to this little game we're playing, it's like I'm feeding something into a broken amplifier, it always comes back distorted. I'm not gonna listen any more.
You clearly haven't played an RPI in years, nor have you played a good DIKU MUD.

Hot tip: one of the largest RPI's currently(Armageddon)... Actually on fact checking this fact, three of the most popular RPI's are based on modified DIKU(Dark and Shattered Lands(ROM which is a DIKU fork), Arm, and Carrion Fields), you ignorant lackwit. DIKU is an engine to create muds not a fucking mud that was cloned. When people say that EQ cloned DIKU they mean that EQ cloned the syntax for the commands from DIKU. Not that it cloned the gameplay, gameplay is INCREDIBLY broad amongst even these three MUDs. Even broader still if you compare them to the other popular RPI's. You very quickly realize that these things aren't a design monolith.

Saying second life is a good online world is like saying that xhamster is the best website in general. Sure, to you, that may be true. But it demonstrates your lack of scope.

By the way, I'm someone who's played and enjoyed RPI and RP encouraged muds for the last 16 years.(2 years on Shangrila, 5 on Sindome, 3 on Arm, 2 on Carrion Fields and a full time period(2 years) on LotJ. With moderate breaks in between.) I play them almost exclusively. Advocate for them, but don't make an ass of yourself upholding them as something special, or downplaying the fact that even amongst LPMuds and DIKU muds, there are VAST differences in gameplay, style, and purpose.
 

Jadeite

Educated
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Messages
81
You clearly haven't played an RPI in years, nor have you played a good DIKU MUD.

Hot tip: one of the largest RPI's currently(Armageddon)... Actually on fact checking this fact, three of the most popular RPI's are based on modified DIKU(Dark and Shattered Lands(ROM which is a DIKU fork), Arm, and Carrion Fields), you ignorant lackwit. DIKU is an engine to create muds not a fucking mud that was cloned. When people say that EQ cloned DIKU they mean that EQ cloned the syntax for the commands from DIKU. Not that it cloned the gameplay, gameplay is INCREDIBLY broad amongst even these three MUDs. Even broader still if you compare them to the other popular RPI's. You very quickly realize that these things aren't a design monolith.

Saying second life is a good online world is like saying that xhamster is the best website in general. Sure, to you, that may be true. But it demonstrates your lack of scope.

By the way, I'm someone who's played and enjoyed RPI and RP encouraged muds for the last 16 years.(2 years on Shangrila, 5 on Sindome, 3 on Arm, 2 on Carrion Fields and a full time period(2 years) on LotJ. With moderate breaks in between.) I play them almost exclusively. Advocate for them, but don't make an ass of yourself upholding them as something special, or downplaying the fact that even amongst LPMuds and DIKU muds, there are VAST differences in gameplay, style, and purpose.

Yep, DIKU MUD is an approximate word. If someone wishes to bring up the fact Armageddon is a DIKU MUD it's a good 'gotcha' moment. But I'm not sure they used it out of reverence, they used it because, if I'm not mistaken, DIKU MUD was the first to implement DND style combat into MUDs. So they 'repaired' it into something civilized people could play. In any case I think most people understand what I mean when I say DIKU MUD. There are other cruder terms you can use. If you refuse to acknowledge my use of it we're free not to speak.

Now that's some impressive experience you have. How about TinyMUD? That predated DIKU MUD (I think). Pretty cool idea. A world like our own where people didn't necessarily always have a weapon at their waist. They talked and built things. Maybe like Furcadia or Habitat. Or Second Life.

As to me thinking RPI MUDs are 'special', no not necessarily. I think they're the bare minimum for an online RPG, and that being the case, if I had one, I would probably loosen the requirements, down from uptight games with rigid character approval to something closer to the games most would play. Would this bring more players or lose the ones I already had? Who knows? Which brings me to...

Second Life. Finally a game that has people playing it, and there's nobody watching over my shoulder or telling me what to do. Xhamster? Well as they as it's your world, it is what you make of it. The people that play are your fellow humans. If that's not entertaining enough, you can't make something work with them, maybe you should, as I generally recommend to those that play online games of such a fantastic kind that purport to entertain them more than their ordinary life does, step outside. Because that entertainment can only go so far before it exceeds the bounds of physical and material probability. And this is how laboratory experiments begin from Sony, Microsoft, et al. But there are moral obstacles to DIKU MUDs, it's just the realism argument is more likely to be compelling to the kind of person that plays them.

Anyway what I'm railing on is people that neglect reality to play ridiculous commercial games that shouldn't exist in a moral world. It's fine if someone in some dungeon somewhere conceives DikuMUD, but a sad statement on the world we live in if the richest companies in the world are rattling off these games to every Tom, Dick and Harry. Pointless idealism? Nope. There'll be hell to pay for all these apathetic people sitting indoors all day playing laboratory experiments. And when they come with tears in their eyes saying, 'It's an RPG! It's an RPG! It's an RPG!'. I say nope. Grow up and do something useful. If it were an RPG you wouldn't be playing it all the time because life isn't that exciting.
 

Jadeite

Educated
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Messages
81
I thought you were just misguided and wanted to understand but you seem to be a crazy cunt so you can go fuck yourself. I don't know Second Life, I was happy to explain why you are completely wrong about EQ and some other stuff but not if you are a weird aspie retard which you clearly are.

Peter Pan's crying. Go back to Never Never Land.
 

Morenatsu.

Liturgist
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
2,578
Location
The Centre of the World
Adventure games are better than action games because I said so!

You should stop killing things and do something intelligent and useful like... playing pretend in a furry game. Yeah, that's right.
 
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Ravielsk

Magister
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
1,514
MMO's nowadays suck, because there's typically a win button for everything outside the tippy top end content.

True, but I would add that this is mainly the case for the roller-coaster brand of MMOs modeled after WoW. The thing is that ultimately they cannot be designed in any other way. When the entire game revolves around gathering gear so you can get more gear than inevitably the "win button" is they only viable way to keep people playing.

Its a problem with the core design philosophy of a game that wants two opposite things. On one end it wants a huge persistent player base but at the same time it wants to be as basic as possible. These two demands when brought to their logical endpoint cancel each other out. You cannot maintain large populations of dedicated players with the most basic of basic gameplay loops, there is just nothing to keep them playing. Half the reasons why WoW sucks these days is because players basically speedrun all the content no matter how they play. The game has become so basic that not speed-running the whole game has become more of a challenge than anything else.

BTW this was a problem some magazines were pointing out when Wotlk came out. That trivializing the game will inevitably lead to its downfall. I still remember the letters they got in response whining about how unfair they were to it. Considering the current state of the game and the genre in general I would demand a apology from those people.
 

anvi

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It's frustrating because WoW is designed by guys who played EQ and thought, "OMG harsh! We should remake it in a much more welcoming way." Which they did. But they probably designed it before they saw how easy EQ becomes 1-3 years down the road. Most of what made EQ harsh at the start was just that nobody had ever played an MMO before. Nobody knew what tank meant or dps, crowd control, aggro, kiting, pulling, etc. These concepts didn't exist yet or were niche dnd things the average player had never heard of.

Early EQ was people bunching together in random groups like a Ranger, Cleric, and two Wizards. They died almost as much as they progressed! Most groups back then started with Druid/Wizard using their big spell, the enemy going straight for him, and he runs away because he is gonna die... and then all the weak melee players chase after them trying to save the wizard. A big Benny Hill mess. Healer spams their heal in a panic which causes ping pong aggro where the mob now hates the Cleric just as much as the Wizard. The tanks have no chance to tank, mayhem. And the near dead player runs in panic causing other enemies to join in. It was brutal, that was typical EQ in the old days. People also used to try crazy shit, like WOA there's a giant! Shoot it! And they all die.

But 1-3 years later all that is completely different. Now every player knows what a tank is and why you should assist. That alone changes the game a lot, as does not running when you get hit. Nobody makes groups without tank, healer, control anymore. Nobody leaves town without a full group of 6. Everyone knows to farm/grind easier enemies instead of taking chances. etc.. The game also gets much easier after level 20-30 anyway because everyone ends up with powerful spells like invisibility, teleport, snare, root, etc. Just one of those skills/spells is enough for anyone to survive in the game if they play smart. So the game got easier itself and then everyone got much better at it. EQ a year or two later was becoming boring for some of us, I quit not long after the first expansion and so did a lot of my guild. This was before WoW was even released.
 
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Norfleet

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Its a problem with the core design philosophy of a game that wants two opposite things. On one end it wants a huge persistent player base but at the same time it wants to be as basic as possible. These two demands when brought to their logical endpoint cancel each other out. You cannot maintain large populations of dedicated players with the most basic of basic gameplay loops, there is just nothing to keep them playing.
The only thing that can maintain a large playerbase with a basic gameplay loop is PvP. That's why World of Warshits doesn't need to constantly worry about new maps and whatnot. People are perfectly content to engage in the basic and repetitive gameplay loop of join the same map you've played over 9000 times and then MURDER PEOPLE.
 

KeighnMcDeath

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I should watch a video on Evony evolution as new ads of Evony pop up but it must br a different game based on those stupid pull-the-pin puzzles.
 

anvi

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P99 is the best version of EQ today, but they spy on your PC. So I would stay away from it.
 
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