Why has the reputation/legacy of LucasArts fared better than Sierra?

[Unkillable Cat]

I think "Dead-ends" still have a right to be around, but they need to be done carefully. For example they should never be 'winding passages', meaning that the start of them is in Act 1, while the realization that you're at a dead end is in Act 6, and there's no way to get back to try to avoid it except for replaying a large portion of the game. Keep both ends within the same act.

Twitch-level reflex exercises such as navigating that tendril patch in Space Quest 2, or leaving Manannan's house in King's Quest 3 was Adventure Games trying to branch out into new territory. Not all of those 'branch-outs' are successful.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Korgoth deserves his own special Barbaria sub-forum where he can ask the same loaded questions over and over, freely present speculation as fact, and blithely ignore any request for citation when called on his bullshit, all to his little heart's content.

 

[Korgoth of Barbaria]

Korgoth deserves his own special Barbaria sub-forum where he can ask the same loaded questions over and over, freely present speculation as fact, and blithely ignore any request for citation when called on his bullshit, all to his little heart's content.

Citation on what exactly, Tom?

 

[Arrowgrab]

Twitch-level reflex exercises such as navigating that tendril patch in Space Quest 2, or leaving Manannan's house in King's Quest 3 was Adventure Games trying to branch out into new territory. Not all of those 'branch-outs' are successful.

You just triggered me. Also:

- Install King's Quest [whichever]: Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder
- Start game
- Look amazed at the world map where you can go anywhere freely
- Go to closest location, a totally ordinary and innocent-looking inn
- Get captured by bandits at the inn without any sort of warning or player input
- Can't escape, since still only possessing the starting items
- Game Over
- Uninstall King's Quest [whichever]: Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Twitch-level reflex exercises such as navigating that tendril patch in Space Quest 2, or leaving Manannan's house in King's Quest 3 was Adventure Games trying to branch out into new territory. Not all of those 'branch-outs' are successful.

You just triggered me. Also:

- Install King's Quest [whichever]: Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder
- Start game
- Look amazed at the world map where you can go anywhere freely
- Go to closest location, a totally ordinary and innocent-looking inn
- Get captured by bandits at the inn without any sort of warning or player input
- Can't escape, since still only possessing the starting items
- Game Over
- Uninstall King's Quest [whichever]: Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder

Just to be a pedant: you can't go anywhere initially (roughly half the game is locked off at first), and I'm 95% sure that Cedric gives you some sort of poncy warning about the inn (one could of course be forgiven for completely ignoring Cedric). Actually, thinking about it KQ5 might have the smallest amount of untelegraphed deaths in the whole series (VII is about even with it).

 

[Sceptic]

Just to be a pedant: you can't go anywhere initially (roughly half the game is locked off at first), and I'm 95% sure that Cedric gives you some sort of poncy warning about the inn (one could of course be forgiven for completely ignoring Cedric). Actually, thinking about it KQ5 might have the smallest amount of untelegraphed deaths in the whole series (VII is about even with it).

Cedric's entire point for existing is really an in-universe hint system, telling you where not to go, where to go, what to do, and so on. In fact, segments where you temporarily lose Cedric (after being warned of course) is the game telling you "everything in here is trying to kill you at all times, be sure you hard save before even thinking about venturing there". Doesn't make him any less annoying of course, and KQ5 is a dip in the series as far as gameplay and puzzles are concerned (both 4 and 6 are much, much better) but the inn is a very bad example if you're trying to prove that the game kills you without warning: you get Cedric's warning before you go, you get a descriptive text about how unsavoury the place looks, looking at the 3 men gives you a subtle hint that interrupting their conversation would be a bad idea. Then, if you STILL get close to them (you have to actually initiate it - entering the inn by itself does not kill you), THEN the game kills you. TBH the only bad part about this whole deal is knowing when it's safe to actually come back, since you need to have done 2 things to make escape possible, and only one of these things gives you an item.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

TBH the only bad part about this whole deal is knowing when it's safe to actually come back, since you need to have done 2 things to make escape possible, and only one of these things gives you an item.

Hehe. Yeah, and the other requires you to not miss a very sudden and unexpected twitch reflex test or else you're locked into a failstate. That part is sort of bullshit, forgot about that.

 

[Barbarian]

Honestly, Sierra had a much larger output and was much more irregular. How many seven or six game series did LA publish? None. The most was Monkey Island with 3 sequels.

If it came down to a real one-on-one I think Sierra made the most original and better games hands down. Schaefer and Gilbert had their moments, but none of their games had the depth of design or originality that someone like Jane Jensen or the Coles could pull off(and did pull off, in those golden days). And that is just mentioning two Sierra names, there were many others.

Taking Gabriel Knight 1 or Quest For Glory I and IV, those 3 games already count more for me than all Lucas Arts games bundled up. Not to mention the little unsung gems like the Conquest series and other more obscure games this day and age.

 

[Jason Liang]

I think for adventure game fans or at least those that grew up in the 90's, Sierra and LucasArts are neck and neck. They both have "some of the best" of the genre, for Sierra games like Gabriel Knight 1, and for me at least Lara Bow 2, for LucasArts you have Fate of Atlantis, Sam & Max Hit the Road, Day of the Tentacle, Grim Fandango, etc... in addition to extensive "tier 2" games like Loom and Monkey Island. Anyone making a list of their 10 favorite adventure games is bound to have titles from both publishers on it.

But it's clear that the LucasArts games were more commercial, mass apeal, kid and family friendly. Maniac Mansion even had a tv show, which is nuts! Sierra made bolder choices, but LucasArts games were also innovative in a different way.

 

[JarlFrank]

Over here in Germany Lucas Arts games were way more popular than Sierra games, at least as far as I remember. Larger fanbase, and my dad copied the floppies of both Monkey Islands from his work colleagues, but we had to buy Sierra games because no-one else had them. In comparison, the LA games I played also felt more polished than the Sierra games I played, and I preferred the Monkey Island style of dialogue tree conversations to Sierra's less involving dialogue styles (no dialogue options to pick in most of their games).

I do remember playing KQ 6 and 7, and Torin's Passage, and enjoying them but they always felt less polished and fun to me than MI 2 or Day of the Tentacle.
Also played Leisure Suit Larry 6 with my dad and didn't get 80% of the jokes, of course, because I was like 6 years old or so

Today, I still get the same impression when I play their games. Lucas Arts seems more polished and with more of a coherent vision and tone, while Sierra games are more inconsistent in tone and quality. But Sierra had more variety than LA in theme and gameplay - you got QfG which combined adventure with RPG, you got the fairytale-style KQ series (which is wildly inconsistent in its tone though), you got Police Quest, Space Quest, Leisure Suit Larry, etc etc. Also Sierra is the older company which has a legacy going back into the 80s and the very beginning of graphic adventure games, while Lucas Arts only emerged later on when graphic adventures were a thing already. I was born in 1988 so when my dad started playing PC games with me, a whole lot of Sierra games were already outdated and LA games were just the more modern, cool thing to play. So a huge aspect in how you view the two companies is when you got into gaming.

And most people who talk about gaming these days grew up with early to mid 90s games, rather than 80s games, so LA is the more relevant company in their eyes since they never lived through the 80s which was Sierra's big and influential time.

 

[Blackthorne]

It's very interesting to see the perspective of someone who is almost exactly 10 years younger than I (Born in 1978). I'm actually amazed at the amount of younger people that discovered and liked adventure games, I feel like they were almost certainly passe by the time many people born post 1985 got to play them... and the opinions on the games. I really came of age in the early computer era, and I can tell you at the time Sierra was absolutely king. They were a huge company at time; they really fell apart in the mid-90s, so it's easy to see how people's views and opinions of them differ from mine.

But, honestly, the more I think about it now, the less I could give a fuck about the old "Sierra vs. Lucasarts" games. In the end, neither company exists as they did and they're certainly not making adventure games. It's no competition; one can play games from both companies and have a good time with it. I definitely do think Lucasarts design choices and styles of game play, however, lead the way in gameplay mechanics of today's adventure games vs. Sierra. There's a lot of nostalgic love for Sierra, but there's not as much use for the way they designed games to many gamers these days. (It seems, this is all, of course, my own conjecture and opinion.)

Bt

 

[Infinitron]

Twitch-level reflex exercises such as navigating that tendril patch in Space Quest 2, or leaving Manannan's house in King's Quest 3 was Adventure Games trying to branch out into new territory. Not all of those 'branch-outs' are successful.

I don't see this as branching out. I think the "physics elements" in Sierra's adventure games (being able to fall off of cliffs and such) were their way of implementing the simulationist environmental survival challenges that were a core feature of the first dungeon crawl-oriented text adventures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossal_Cave_Adventure

go west

YOU FELL INTO A PIT AND BROKE EVERY BONE IN YOUR BODY!

NOW YOU'VE REALLY DONE IT! I'M OUT OF ORANGE SMOKE! YOU DON'T EXPECT
ME TO DO A DECENT REINCARNATION WITHOUT ANY ORANGE SMOKE, DO YOU?

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Hey Korgoth of Barbaria you will want to pick up this issue for your next thread:

Why? Bottom-right corner.

 

[Barbarian]

It's very interesting to see the perspective of someone who is almost exactly 10 years younger than I (Born in 1978). I'm actually amazed at the amount of younger people that discovered and liked adventure games, I feel like they were almost certainly passe by the time many people born post 1985 got to play them... and the opinions on the games. I really came of age in the early computer era, and I can tell you at the time Sierra was absolutely king. They were a huge company at time; they really fell apart in the mid-90s, so it's easy to see how people's views and opinions of them differ from mine.

But, honestly, the more I think about it now, the less I could give a fuck about the old "Sierra vs. Lucasarts" games. In the end, neither company exists as they did and they're certainly not making adventure games. It's no competition; one can play games from both companies and have a good time with it. I definitely do think Lucasarts design choices and styles of game play, however, lead the way in gameplay mechanics of today's adventure games vs. Sierra. There's a lot of nostalgic love for Sierra, but there's not as much use for the way they designed games to many gamers these days. (It seems, this is all, of course, my own conjecture and opinion.)

Bt

I was born in 1989 and when I was a kid adventures were still a thing. Even here in huehueland. Grim Fandango and Curse of Monkey island were released here translated in Portuguese(Grim Fandango with full portuguese voice-overs), just for you to have an idea. And My first contact with Mi1 and Mi2 was in a boxed Lucas Arts collection released here in the country(also contained Loom and Day of the Tentacle).

I also own the box copy of Gabriel Knight 3 and King's Quest VIII(heh) released here. Only the cardbox text was translated in portuguese but that still counts I guess. I assume that if these games were released here year-to-year there must have been a public and perhaps fans of the series. No idea if the older games were actually sold nationally(probbaly only through import outlets). I know The Dig and Full Throttle were released here with translations.

Lucas Arts must have made tons of money with these games...

Off course, by 2000-2001 one could notice there were no more cool adventure games showing up at the store and that is when I really got into the older games, specially the Sierra oldies. Some I got from magazines, later "abandonware" became a thing. If I had not actually became curious about the earlier GK series games I might not have dug deep, and mind you, even though I enjoyed GK3 I hated the engine and was extremely disappointed by the ending.

 

[jfrisby]

You should put a poll up next time, Korgoth.

Spoiler

That new RGamer interview is here: https://imgur.com/a/sFsERVa

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Ken, pictured with Roberta, before the iconic moustache took over his face.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Hmm... Looks like they could use a copy-editor; there's a caption talking about Castle of Dr. Brain below a screenshot of what is clearly Freddy Pharkas.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Hmm... Looks like they could use a copy-editor; there's a caption talking about Castle of Dr. Brain below a screenshot of what is clearly Freddy Pharkas.

That's an understatement. A couple of issues back they wasted valuable printing space on reprinting the same paragraph twice.

The mag is being screwed over by its publisher, so I'd guess they're aware of the problem but the Computer says No, so there.

 

[taxalot]

Lucas Arts had full translations of their games in Europe much earlier than Sierra, and a more accessible design philosophy, with stronger production values.

If you were a European kid in the 80/90s, that was enough of an argument to make their games infinitely superior to Sierra, a company I did already love back then but still went on appreciating much much more... as I got older.

Oh yeah, also, Sierra games reached for an older population that might just have not been the majority of gamers back then. When Gabriel Knight came out, I remember thinking it might be a little too mature for me back then. As for Leisure Suit Larry, it was a forbidden pleasure I had to enjoy when nobody was at home.

 

[Barbarian]

Lucas Arts had full translations of their games in Europe much earlier than Sierra, and a more accessible design philosophy, with stronger production values.

If you were a European kid in the 80/90s, that was enough of an argument to make their games infinitely superior to Sierra, a company I did already love back then but still went on appreciating much much more... as I got older.

Oh yeah, also, Sierra games reached for an older population that might just have not been the majority of gamers back then. When Gabriel Knight came out, I remember thinking it might be a little too mature for me back then. As for Leisure Suit Larry, it was a forbidden pleasure I had to enjoy when nobody was at home.

AFAIK most Sierra games from the late 80's forward had German, Spanish and French translations. No idea how well distributed they were in Europe though.

 

[taxalot]

The point and click interfaces had for most of them. None of the parsers games were ever translated. Maniac Mansion and Zack McKracken were already in French.

 

[Boleskine]

LucasArts game designers (Gilbert, Schafer, Grossman) created their own companies and continued making games after they left LucasArts.

Most Sierra game developers left the industry by the late 90s, either due to being fired or just retiring. Their presence and visibility faded almost completely.

So people who played newer games from former LucasArts developers would learn who those guys are and what games they made before. That helped newer audiences to keep discovering the older LucasArts games even during the dark ages for adventure games (early to middle 2000s).

Sierra fell off the map for quite a few years before Vivendi released box versions of the KQ, SQ, LSL, and PQ collections. A few years later GOG started selling Sierra games so they began to enter the public eye once again. Then Kickstarter brought most of the Sierra people back, and we all know how that turned out.

 

[Barbarian]

Sierra fell off the map for quite a few years before Vivendi released box versions of the KQ, SQ, LSL, and PQ collections. A few years later GOG started selling Sierra games so they began to enter the public eye once again. Then Kickstarter brought most of the Sierra people back, and we all know how that turned out.

Yes, a complete disaster. Jensen could not keep her gay porn fetish off her game and released a lame product. Al Lowe got a gay pedophile psychopath to run(and ruin) his newfound company. Two guys from Andromeda and the Coles can't run a game development company to save their lives and have had their projects in what can be described as "out of budget development hell" for years.

Hero-U and SpaceVenture might turn out to be great games after all is said and done, but I sincerely doubt they will be a sales success or that either the Coles or the Two Guys will develop games again. The LSL remake was not bad, too bad that little faggot made a shitshow and drove Lowe into permanent retirement.

 

[Blackthorne]

Just a question to ponder here: if in 2012, when all the Kickstarter Frenzy over adventure games really took off - do you think these ex-Sierra projects would have done better if they made games more in line and similar to their older games rather than something more "modern"? I often wonder - if say The Two Guys, The Cole's, Jim Walls, etc. had used something like AGS and graphics similar to the golden age of their games, do you think people would have gone for that? I've pondered this for years.


Bt

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I personally would have been substantially more interested/nostalgia’d by AGS graphics, but perhaps I underestimate the graphicswhoredom present in most Kickstarter backers.