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Why is RTwP so popular in modern RPGs?

Mustawd

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The SCL thread made me start thinking: Why is this RTwP system so damn persistent? Just to name a few, but not exhaustive list, we have:

Pillars of Eternity
Baldur's Gate
Baldur's Gate 2
Icewind Dale
Icewind Dale 2
Planescape Torment
Dragon Age: Origins
Dragon Age 2
Dragon Age: Inquisition
Sword Coast Legends
Serpent in the Staglands (albeit forgivable because they were inspired by Darklands...but still)
KOTOR
KOTOR 2
etc.

Is RTwP just popular because of the IE games? Is there something that makes them more appealing to the casual crowd than turn based combat? I mean, if the casual audience is looking for an action oriented game (and yes, they are), then why not make most of these games simply ARPGs? I mean in a way, SCL almost looks like it plays like a Diablo. Why the hell not just make it real time already?

I just don't get it.

EDIT: I mean even some console JRPGs are turn based. So it's not like modern audiences go full retardo when they see TB.
 

SniperHF

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Who cares, we have turn based options now. Let the RTwP people go crazy doing their thing.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth


What a strange post to be making in an age when 90% of Kickstarter RPGs are turn-based and RTwP seems to be an endangered species compared to full-blown real-time action in the AAA space.
 
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Is? I notice plenty more TB going around than RTwP. You noticed some ten in the last 20 years

I can't get this obsession that every single RPG ever released has to be TB, no matter shit or not
 
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Athelas

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I just don't get it.
Did you somehow not notice that every one of those is either a Bioware game, a game made borrowing Bioware's engine or a spiritual successor to one of those? It has less to do with the universal appeal of RTwP and more to do with the fact that one particular developer began using that system around the same time RPG developers started to go the way of the dodo and said developer was one the few survivors.
 
Unwanted
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Yes ect. indeed. You named 13 RPGs 9 of whom were made in the 2000s Bioware/Black Isle days. The other 4 are direct or spiritual successors of some kind to the 9.

Your post is the textbook example of trying too hard to fit in. Kindly fuck off and start over from scratch with another alt.
 

InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Because maybe some people are not fast witted and/or having the hand eye coordination required to precisely put that fireball just right in front of your tank while ordering the cleric to put aoe blessing precisely to hit all of your character while moving your rogue out of that fiery breath while positioning your archer so that mook #8 don't get to flank him while, ad infinitum.

Too extreme of an example but, really, real time, squad based combat requires tasking amount of concentration and is actually somewhat stressful. Game like red solistice and satellite reign (before patch) <while not really RPGs, follow the combat style of many rtwp games> replace the pause with slow motion to the same effect.

Hell, have you tried finishing those games you made as example on highest difficulty without using pause? Is it feasible? It probably is. But, well besides SCL maybe, it would be tediously hard and time wasting.

Now if you are only controlling a single unit a.k.a diablo-like then I do not see any reason for RTwP but most of the example you are giving are squad based games.

Why not TB then? Well, people might not like it and as you said, it is to carter modern gamers.
 

InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Well I wouldn't know about global condition, but my friends (who never play the older rpgs) enjoy playing DA series while they wouldn't touch TB games so it works?

To be more precise, I think it is to carter to both modern (more action!) and older games (action?GTFO!). But yeah, if I think of it more clearly there are actually few of new RTwP game that is not Bioware's or spiritual successor of Bioware's games so my point about that might not stand.
 
Unwanted
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DA is more of an exception in the world of RPG. And DA2 or DA3 really aren't RtwP as much as they are just action. The pause function there is essentially useless.
 
Unwanted
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Only if you have OCDs

To clarify, you spam one or two cooldown ability every once in a while with your main while the AI handles the others who are just as simple. I only ever paused when kiting bosses because I was rushing through it. DA2 works like a super simplified MMO.
 

Roguey

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Only if you have OCDs

To clarify, you spam one or two cooldown ability every once in a while with your main while the AI handles the others who are just as simple. I only ever paused when kiting bosses because I was rushing through it. DA2 works like a super simplified MMO.

Combat in DA2 is fast and chaotic, the pause is necessary so one can make decisions without that kind of pressure. It's true there are only a handful of demanding fights, but the same is also true for Knights of the Old Republic.
 
Unwanted
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It's the complete opposite of fast and chaotic. HP pool relative to damage are high, few spells if at all have volatile effects it's a dps fest. Plus 4 characters party and you're set for MMO lite combat with occasional repositioning. Occasional.
 

Mustawd

Guest


What a strange post to be making in an age when 90% of Kickstarter RPGs are turn-based and RTwP seems to be an endangered species compared to full-blown real-time action in the AAA space.



Maybe. I guess I've just been mulling it over a lot, since it really seems absolutely pointless for SCL to have pause at all. I mean you watch a LP in multiplayer mode and there's really no difference than watching a party Diablo game.

It's just a weird mechanic that persists. To me it's something that should long be extinct, to be replaced by either TB for some who like it more old school or by purely action for more casuals. I mean does RTwP have any use besides just aping the IE games?

And yes, I consider KOTOR I and II to be modern RPGs. Hasn't been that long.
 

Mustawd

Guest
Your post is the textbook example of trying too hard to fit in. Kindly fuck off and start over from scratch with another alt.

K.

DA2 or DA3 really aren't RtwP as much as they are just action. The pause function there is essentially useless.

That's my point. Why even have a pause? There's literally no use for it. But including it in a AAA game like DA just prolongs the life of the damn thing.
 

Leitz

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Why the hate for RTwP anyway? I haven't played many of those games but at least in the BGs it was quite fun.
 

dragonul09

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From my understanding, a lot of people hate tb because it is slow paced, constant trash mobs encounters and some considers it ''unrealistic'' and i wholeheartedly agree with the trash mobs part.Lately i encountered this problem in Blackguards,Divinity OS where i just couldn't finish the game because of the constant trash mobs that i encountered.

It may be fun for some people to fight 10 spiders on a single map and wait 10 minutes for every fucking turn to finish,then you just realised your champion missed every fucking hit with 90% success.This is the main problem with tb games,they are full of trash mobs and people get bored easly and so do i.
 

Somberlain

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From my understanding, a lot of people hate tb because it is slow paced, constant trash mobs encounters and some considers it ''unrealistic'' and i wholeheartedly agree with the trash mobs part.Lately i encountered this problem in Blackguards,Divinity OS where i just couldn't finish the game because of the constant trash mobs that i encountered.

It may be fun for some people to fight 10 spiders on a single map and wait 10 minutes for every fucking turn to finish,then you just realised your champion missed every fucking hit with 90% success.This is the main problem with tb games,they are full of trash mobs and people get bored easly and so do i.

:retarded:

The amount of trash mobs developer decides to put in their game has nothing to do with the combat system. Also, good developers include speed-sliders in their games so combat doesn't last forever.
 

dragonul09

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:retarded:

The amount of trash mobs developer decides to put in their game has nothing to do with the combat system. Also, good developers include speed-sliders in their games so combat doesn't last forever.

Dude look at what op asked, i just explained why some people dislike tb games,at least that's what i gathered from others people reviews and trust me, i read a lot of reviews before buying a game.

And i want my turn based games to move faster,to skip the lousy animations and just attack instantly.The speed slider is bullshit,most of them are speeding the game by 1.5x or 2x and that's still pretty fucking slow by my standards,i want to play these game like chess where the action is instant without travelling animations,show me the numbers,that's all that matters.
 

Mustawd

Guest
That's at least a valid criticism, even if I disagree with it. But to me RTwP just seems like you're watching the game play itself. Reminds me of the early Tom Clancy R6 games where the original idea was to plot out the routes to take, then hit "play" and watch the SWAT team just play itself.

Regardless, I was more wondering on why this mechanic persists in RPGs. And to me it seems like it is only there to ape BG. But based on what dragonul09 says, there might be some players who generally get impatient with TB but don't mind all the constant pausing of some of the IE games.
 
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