Why Planescape Torment is not a great game (In Depth)

[A_Leftist_Pig?]

It isn't my problem that 99% of it are.

 

[Cthulhu_is_love]

Have you just brofisted yourself with an alt?

 

[A_Leftist_Pig?]

No, I guess someone liked one of my few posts that I made outside of this circlejerk.


OH GLORIOUS I FOUND THE EDIT BUTTON! REJOICE!



Btw...Codex has a shitty UI.

New thread --->

 

[Prime Junta]

Planescape: Torment's mechanics only have one really horridly unfair feature. The stats. Pick the wrong stats and you're locked out of highly significant parts of the story -- and the right stats have fuck all to do with right stats in D&D in general. It's just a total curveball. The game wouldn't lose anything if TNO came with fixed stats right out of the gate.

Other than that, all you have to do make the most of it is to pay attention, to everything -- EVERYTHING --, think about it, and remember it. If you just click-click-click through it then of course you're gonna think it's bad.

There's a lot more to it than dialog. The interactions with items for example. Fucking awesome and you totally miss out on it if you don't really. pay. attention.

I.e., if you don't like PS:T, you have shit taste, or the attention span of a squirrel with ADHD, or you're just plain stupid.

 

[A_Leftist_Pig?]

I beat the game in 10 hours of gameplay on my first playthrough never finding a single solution online except how much intelligence I need to convince my practical self to join me.

Part of the problem is that there is not enough text to explain everything and the journal collects way too little. But that is solved by running in circles around Sigil until you find the guy you were supposed to deliver the fetch quest item too.


Perhaps I am just a bit too bright or have a bit too much peace in my life so that I can actually digest some of this and shit out some actual objective criticism of it while you swallow it whole and let it get stuck in your spine.

 

[ArchAngel]

I beat the game in 10 hours of gameplay on my first playthrough never finding a single solution online except how much intelligence I need to convince my practical self to join me.

Part of the problem is that there is not enough text to explain everything and the journal collects way too little. But that is solved by running in circles around Sigil until you find the guy you were supposed to deliver the fetch quest item too.

Lol 10h. You must have skipped half the game at least.
Remind me why should we care about anything you say?

 

[A_Leftist_Pig?]

I don't fucking care, you're obviously a slow reader who doesn't even understand what he says so keeps on going with the good old Ad H.

 

[Lord Andre]

Just like many others I didn't figure out you could use the portraits to transfer items until a long time had passed and kept dropping them and picking them up.

Like many others, first sign of a retard.

"Late game I had to rest multiple times to restore health."

Like many others, retard confirmed.

 

[A_Leftist_Pig?]

It's obviously retarded that you can transfer an item from person to person when they are standing 10 meters away from each other because there is a portrait of the person there so I didn't consider it. I'm sorry if you're too used to shit to smell it when it's there.


Common, anything else? You're all a bunch of idiots that lack any constructive or logical rebuttal of anything.
Elitist filth that is inoculated to any outside criticism of your holy idols.

(Well there were like 2 posters here that had something to say, so pardon my generalization )

 

[Gnidrologist]

Yeah, it's kinda shit (as a game). trelele Didn't read the thread btw, maybe later.

One thing i realized after playing the whole thing was that i completely missed one of the mid game locations. It was either Curst or Carceri. Because after finishing the game i looked in that awesome Gamebanshee walkthrough with all the maps and pointers and realized i haven't ever seen that place. How could it happen? As far as i remember locations go linearly from place to next place. Was there one or two optional locations that could be entirely missed by accident?

 

[Lord Azlan]

I suspect I am in the same boat as you. Long time RPG - came onto the codex to find out about stuff that has mostly gone missing in the mainstream for far too long. Getting a bit disillusioned of the quality of todays game - so many of getting high scores but being trash.

Since I joined here I have started going through a number of games from my past and mostly agreed with the codex on Fallout 1 and 2. On Arx Fatalis and on Risen. On Lords of Xulima. Planescape is one of the games I bought but have not played much or enjoyed when I did.

Let's keep an open mind.

1. Let's begin with one stat that you will never, ever care about! Weight!

You will, however, run out of SPACE. Because a fly takes up as much space as a battle axe.

Interesting point about space and weight. I don't think it is important as there are a few games where the inconsistencies in managing loot and equipment did not affect my enjoyment of the game. I would even say in some ways illogical design here helped my enjoyment. WL2 had a weight thing going on which sort of pissed me off as I spent lots of time on inventory management. In Risen, it was lovely in a sense as I could just ignore that and enjoy the game.

2. Your companions are used to fling about these tiny trinkets back and forth as a cumbersome form of inventory management, the worst I have ever seen. Just like many others I didn't figure out you could use the portraits to transfer items until a long time had passed and kept dropping them and picking them up.

Once I figured it out the transfer of items back and forth became a huge chore and trivialized inventory management and party management completely.

There are several points like this along the game, either useless or hard to figure out things that shouldn't be that hard or that useless.

Noted. I don't like to play these sort of games with companions and won't be happy if the game forces me to bring anyone along for any length of time. Except for Morte that is. I don't like companions unless blobber. But I note your points. You don't explain why you had to transfer so many items around. Maybe its an old game and that is how it was done back in the day due to technology.

3. Other examples include curses and their general lack and the inability of figuring out with what you are cursed, the bugged or somehow messed up overlapping spells that grant you strength (but in actuality take away strength), the lack of any description of the hidden stat known only as "Luck" that for a newbie must have been very confusing.

Haha. It seems luck is always been some vague stat that doesn't really reveal its affects like the others do. But maybe it is supposed to be that way going back to the pen and paper D&D design.

4. But these aren't the games major flaws. The absolute largest failure is the resolution which now, a decade later, can be fixed with a mod. The choice to use extremely detailed and blown up landscapes in a worthless resolution made the game unplayable for me for 10 years.

I hear you. Part of the reason I am not a story fag is my reluctance to read lots of tiny text. Recently WL2 did very well in this regards. Even the Xulima guys made some changes so reading text was easier. This year I bought a larger wide screen monitor and ran Planescape again without any mods and using whatever resolution it came up with - it was perfect. In fact - on a recent play attempt I had a good appreciation of the mortuary section in a graphical sense - something I had not appreciated before.

5. The amount of combat required out of this badly configured engine that oftentimes does not recognise commands is too much although I grew to not hate it as much as I did when I just started the game.

Most people say this is a problem.

Final Judgment.

I am hearing what you say. I am interested in reading about your experience of the game as played in 2015 not from a bunch of old cudgers that played in their bedroom or basement in the 1960s. I don't deny some views are nostalgic - you're brave to play it through and post your thoughts. Might let you know what I tihnk of it once I complete fallout 2

 

[Sykar]

A picture is better than a thousand words to describe the OP

 

[MasPingon]

I don't fucking care, you're obviously a slow reader who doesn't even understand what he says so keeps on going with the good old Ad H.

I am hearing what you say. I am interested in reading about your experience of the game as played in 2015 not from a bunch of old cudgers that played in their bedroom or basement in the 1960s.

Then wth are you doing here?

 

[Gnidrologist]

Btw, i brofisted Leftist Pig. Now he has two.

 

[t]

I was hoping to see some actual intelligent rebuttals of at least the part of my criticism that dealt with the story but since even that is lacking and everything else is just "oh it doesn't matter" then I just concede that you probably never even understood the more complex parts of the story and so the discussion is senseless.

Ok since you insist. Your story complaints are, AFAICT:

- Curse quests are not too great -- agreed, although there are some interesting tidbits.
- Dying by any other means also ends the game, but you don't get any answers.
- Death as a beginning of life in hell of heaven -- stupid as fuck, but it's the same in every mythology and religion, so blame those.

Were there any more?

 

[valcik]

Planescape: Torment's mechanics only have one really horridly unfair feature. The stats. Pick the wrong stats and you're locked out of highly significant parts of the story ..

Sure, badly chosen attributes can screw your character alright at start. There's a lot of free attribute points waiting for you everywhere though. Tatoos, weapons, items, specialisation bonuses at levels 7 and 12, side-quest granted bonuses.. Plenty. My last attempt ended like this, almost all the stats raised nicely except one:

 

[A_Leftist_Pig?]

I suspect I am in the same boat as you. Long time RPG - came onto the codex to find out about stuff that has mostly gone missing in the mainstream for far too long. Getting a bit disillusioned of the quality of todays game - so many of getting high scores but being trash.

Since I joined here I have started going through a number of games from my past and mostly agreed with the codex on Fallout 1 and 2. On Arx Fatalis and on Risen. On Lords of Xulima. Planescape is one of the games I bought but have not played much or enjoyed when I did.

Let's keep an open mind.

1. Let's begin with one stat that you will never, ever care about! Weight!

You will, however, run out of SPACE. Because a fly takes up as much space as a battle axe.

Interesting point about space and weight. I don't think it is important as there are a few games where the inconsistencies in managing loot and equipment did not affect my enjoyment of the game. I would even say in some ways illogical design here helped my enjoyment. WL2 had a weight thing going on which sort of pissed me off as I spent lots of time on inventory management. In Risen, it was lovely in a sense as I could just ignore that and enjoy the game.

2. Your companions are used to fling about these tiny trinkets back and forth as a cumbersome form of inventory management, the worst I have ever seen. Just like many others I didn't figure out you could use the portraits to transfer items until a long time had passed and kept dropping them and picking them up.

Once I figured it out the transfer of items back and forth became a huge chore and trivialized inventory management and party management completely.

There are several points like this along the game, either useless or hard to figure out things that shouldn't be that hard or that useless.

Noted. I don't like to play these sort of games with companions and won't be happy if the game forces me to bring anyone along for any length of time. Except for Morte that is. I don't like companions unless blobber. But I note your points. You don't explain why you had to transfer so many items around. Maybe its an old game and that is how it was done back in the day due to technology.

3. Other examples include curses and their general lack and the inability of figuring out with what you are cursed, the bugged or somehow messed up overlapping spells that grant you strength (but in actuality take away strength), the lack of any description of the hidden stat known only as "Luck" that for a newbie must have been very confusing.

Haha. It seems luck is always been some vague stat that doesn't really reveal its affects like the others do. But maybe it is supposed to be that way going back to the pen and paper D&D design.

4. But these aren't the games major flaws. The absolute largest failure is the resolution which now, a decade later, can be fixed with a mod. The choice to use extremely detailed and blown up landscapes in a worthless resolution made the game unplayable for me for 10 years.

I hear you. Part of the reason I am not a story fag is my reluctance to read lots of tiny text. Recently WL2 did very well in this regards. Even the Xulima guys made some changes so reading text was easier. This year I bought a larger wide screen monitor and ran Planescape again without any mods and using whatever resolution it came up with - it was perfect. In fact - on a recent play attempt I had a good appreciation of the mortuary section in a graphical sense - something I had not appreciated before.

5. The amount of combat required out of this badly configured engine that oftentimes does not recognise commands is too much although I grew to not hate it as much as I did when I just started the game.

Most people say this is a problem.

Final Judgment.

I am hearing what you say. I am interested in reading about your experience of the game as played in 2015 not from a bunch of old cudgers that played in their bedroom or basement in the 1960s. I don't deny some views are nostalgic - you're brave to play it through and post your thoughts. Might let you know what I tihnk of it once I complete fallout 2

Good post dude. The new patch does wonders though. Together with an other one you can INCREASE the size of the text with the resolution and modify it to your liking. I found a new mix with 1600 resolution and 40% increased text.

 

[t]

Planescape: Torment's mechanics only have one really horridly unfair feature. The stats. Pick the wrong stats and you're locked out of highly significant parts of the story ..

Sure, badly chosen attributes can screw your character alright at start. There's a lot of free attribute points waiting for you everywhere though. Tatoos, weapons, items, specialisation bonuses at levels 7 and 12, side-quest granted bonuses.. Plenty. My last attempt ended like this, almost all the stats raised nicely except one:

Decline of the coDEX.

 

[A_Leftist_Pig?]

Planescape: Torment's mechanics only have one really horridly unfair feature. The stats. Pick the wrong stats and you're locked out of highly significant parts of the story ..

Sure, badly chosen attributes can screw your character alright at start. There's a lot of free attribute points waiting for you everywhere though. Tatoos, weapons, items, specialisation bonuses at levels 7 and 12, side-quest granted bonuses.. Plenty. My last attempt ended like this, almost all the stats raised nicely except one:

Heck, I don't even mind that you can screw your character. You can't talk your way out of everything in life, pick at least some other quality you will train yourself in.
You cant be a good mage without any intelligence and wisdom, don't be a fool etc.

I even made quite a shitty character due to its over-reliance on intelligence while remaining a fighter (figured I had enough allied mages) but with some tatoos like you said I still made it through. Although I was down to like 3 potions in the end fight ^^

 

[Trip]

Common, anything else? You're all a bunch of idiots that lack any constructive or logical rebuttal of anything.

One can't lack a rebuttal. The phrase makes no grammatical sense. (Edit: turns out it exists; you learn something every day. Still doesn't make the majority of your comments any less nonsensical.)
What you lack, however, is a decent sense of perspective. 3/4 of your objections are built on problems with a 16-year old interface that's in no way worse than that of other games at the time. (And also hampered by necessarily having to hew close to the ADD/IE formula.) The resolution comment was also completely nonsensical, sorry to say.

 

[A_Leftist_Pig?]

How can't one lack rebuttal? An absence of that sentence would be a lack of rebuttal to your post.

 

[gestalt11]

I thought when I read the title this would be some explanation about why Torment is not a great game, from a purely gameplay point of view, even if it has a good story/premise/characters etc. Which seems like a plausible if debatable thing. Instead I don't really know what the point of it is because its kind of haphazard and fails to make any strong or cohesive points.

Planescape: Torment's mechanics only have one really horridly unfair feature. The stats. Pick the wrong stats and you're locked out of highly significant parts of the story -- and the right stats have fuck all to do with right stats in D&D in general. It's just a total curveball. The game wouldn't lose anything if TNO came with fixed stats right out of the gate.

Other than that, all you have to do make the most of it is to pay attention, to everything -- EVERYTHING --, think about it, and remember it. If you just click-click-click through it then of course you're gonna think it's bad.

There's a lot more to it than dialog. The interactions with items for example. Fucking awesome and you totally miss out on it if you don't really. pay. attention.

I.e., if you don't like PS:T, you have shit taste, or the attention span of a squirrel with ADHD, or you're just plain stupid.

True. Wisdom is super important and unlike Arcanum or Fallout playing dumb is not really its own rewarding and usually amusing experience. Or for Bloodlines if you are a nutty malkavian, but that is not stats really.

Then again in the context of the story itself, being wise does sort of make sense. But how the fuck would you know that when starting the game without spoilers?

 

[ArchAngel]

I don't fucking care, you're obviously a slow reader who doesn't even understand what he says so keeps on going with the good old Ad H.

This coming from a guy that could not figure out he can move items from one character to another by using their portraits LOL. Go in a corner and shut up Reek.

 

[Trip]

I edited. And as I said, gripes about UI and 16-year old game engine, both of which were the norm at the time the game came out, simply do not count and they do constitute a large portion of your criticism, yes?

 

[A_Leftist_Pig?]

Jesus dude, the problem illustrates itself. You criticize something you do not understand.

Also I feel that other games did it better back then. These guys had experience, they could have done it better.
If you have some experience with RPGs you can figure it out. If you don't it's a terrible game to start with. Even back then.