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Why was Enclave in Fallout 3 considered evil?

Discussion in 'Bethesda Game Studios' started by Gangrelrumbler, Jun 13, 2015.

  1. Gangrelrumbler Arcane Patron

    Gangrelrumbler
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    I mean they didn't do anything wrong. Eveything evil they did is totally understandable and explainable
    -They wanted to sieze the water purifier from BOS - understandable since it's a propert of US government and they are the US government, and BOS is a bunch of biggots
    -They've killed some random scientist - extreme but understandable considering the stakes
    -They've kidnapped the PC - A-OK since without Neeson they couldn't turn on the purifier, which would make them lose it to BOS
    -Their presidend wanted to kill everyone with FEV - nobody fcuking listened to him, he was a gloryfied radio speaker (who also did a much better job than Three Dogs)
     
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  2. baturinsky Arcane

    baturinsky
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    Because of guys like you that ask too many questions, scenarists add some random acts of cruelty to designated evil side. Like Autumn killing some scientist chick in his first scene, as you mentioned.
     
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  3. Gangrelrumbler Arcane Patron

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    She was conspiring with a post-apocalyptic techno-taliban, so she had it coming.
     
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  4. Makabb Arcane Shitposter Bethestard

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    Because it's a game for kids and dorks so there need to be absolute evil so you can feel good about yourself eliminating it and getting Moiras pussy between eating doritos and shitting.
     
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  5. Gangrelrumbler Arcane Patron

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    My point is that they are not evil at all, they are pretty cool people actually.
     
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  6. Obsequious Approbation Augur

    Obsequious Approbation
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    They want to purify the water and thus the Wasteland. Doing so (bad ending, oh my) will kill everything and everyone that's been tainted. Not :incloosive: enough, either. In short, they're the end-justifies-means folks. Terrible, innit.
     
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  7. Gangrelrumbler Arcane Patron

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    But that was Eden's plan, Autumn disagreed with it and actually surrenders when you tell him about Eden backstabbing him. Eden is also actually below Autumn in the Enclave's hierarchy as evidenced by Autumn ordering soldiers to shoot the player on sight despite Eden's orders.
     
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  8. resilient sphere Educated

    resilient sphere
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    this is solid Jack Bauer logic imho
     
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  9. Somberlain Arcane Zionist Agent

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    I think that's just typical Bethesda shit that doesn't make any sense but Bethesda doesn't care because most of their fans are retards who don't see anything wrong with stuff like that. I might be wrong though, but I have a hard time believing that President is actually below Colonel.
     
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  10. taxalot I'm a spicy fellow. Patron

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    Why was the Enclave considered Evil in Fallout 2 too ?
     
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  11. Gangrelrumbler Arcane Patron

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    Yeah, but it's also the only explanation. If Autumn was below him he'd have to carry out his plan, which would it pointless for Eden to try to recruit the PC.

    -Killed vault dwellers unprovoked
    -Kidnapped entire villages unprovoked
    -Tried to kidnap some innocent family on the wasteland for experiments and killed them when they refused to cooperate
    -Conducted experiments on people
    -Actually tried to kill everyone with FEV
    -Slaughtered innocent Deathclaws
    -Supplied criminals with advanced weapons

    F2 Enclave killed shitload of people while trying to commit a genocide, F3 Enclave killed like one person while trying to supply everyone with pure water.
     
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  12. Gurkog Erudite

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    FO3 is just a shit game with barebones plot, setting, story thrown onto their hiking simulator as justification for the label of RPG.
     
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  13. Clockwork Knight Arcane

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    Eden is above in the hierarchy but since Autumn is the one relaying his orders to the rest of the organization, he's the de facto leader since he can twist them or simply act behind Eden's back.

    They are descendants of long-dead members of the US government who have elected themselves as the current government. That's not how democracy works...

    Caveat being that they're going to sit on it and demand obedience in exchange. They're thugs. FFS their officers dress like an Empire officer from Star Wars and execute underlings Komissar-style.

    The whole purifier sequence would make more sense if they talked about securing the place first instead of activating the thing, which makes it look like a race to see who gets to presses the button.
     
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  14. Commissar Draco Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar Patron

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    Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Democracy in the post ITZ Wasteland :hahano:; ln such scenario they are the only three types of people: the dead, the ones with loaden weapons and those who dig.

    :notsureifserious: or some kind of :kwafuckyeah:.

    Personally would join with Enclave in F03 if given chance which makes shit done over the bunch of pseudo knights who got slaughtered by Green Orcs; Its good that Bethpizda steers me into only one proper and FreeDOOM full way plot can go since Colonel Autumn executes you in cut scene if you accept his offer. So Much Choice so Much Muh Liberty! :kwanzania:
     
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  15. Clockwork Knight Arcane

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    Behead all tyrants.

    :russia:
     
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  16. flabbyjack Arcane

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    fixed
     
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  17. Menckenstein Lunacy of Caen: Todd Reaver

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Gangrelrumbler Arcane Patron

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    Clockwork Knight
    -If Autumn was actually below president he would just tell the soldiers, through the radio to execute him when he refused to put FEV into the purifier
    -They also don't act very thuggish in comparison to every other group on the wasteland. I mean sure, nobody elected them, but on the other hand I don't remember people voting for BoS either.
     
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  19. Clockwork Knight Arcane

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    Autumn is lower in hierarchy but he's still the commanding officer, he can't be executed on a whim. The soldiers would probably stay on his side during a dispute, anyway. And most importantly, Eden depends on him since Autumn is the only living member who knows he's an AI. Trying to convince the PC to do it instead is a better option than annoying the guy who can unplug him.

    As for their behavior, at least Lyons' BoS aren't trying to establish themselves as leaders, in fact the reason the Outcasts got pissed off and deserted is that they've started helping settlements without getting anything valuable in return. Besides, the government is expected to act a little less thuggish than roving raider bands and mercenary groups, this isn't a big accomplishment.

    TBH if you give him the password you make yourself useless since he has no other reason to keep you alive after he confirms it's correct. The Enclave thinks of wastelanders as filthy mutants so letting you join them isn't an option, either.
     
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  20. Carrion Arcane Patron

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    Sounds to me like the president was the only good guy in the game.
     
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  21. laclongquan Arcane

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    I say it before and I say it again. As long as you got snazzy outfits, you can get idiots to defend your atrocities and join your side, no matter how blatant evil you act.

    This is just another proof.
     
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  22. Gangrelrumbler Arcane Patron

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    I'm pretty sure that being higher in a hierarchy means being able to make people below you carry out your orders. The fact is that there is one person in the entire Enclave who supports genocide and nobody fucking listens to him.

    And villains are expected to be a bit more villainous than just sometimes not playing nice. I mean BoS wants the Purifier and kills everyone who opposes them and Enclave wants it and kills everyone who opposes them. What's the fucking difference. I mean in the last quest, what is the reason for the player to even leave the house. Unless he wants to unless his father, which is pretty misguided since Autumn didn't actually try to kill him.

    TBH if you give him the password you make yourself useless since he has no other reason to keep you alive. The Enclave thinks of wastelanders as filthy mutants so letting you join them isn't an option, either.[/QUOTE]

    You also killed a shitload of their troops at this point, which makes everyone agitated.
     
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  23. Clockwork Knight Arcane

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    You can't MAKE your underlings obey an unreasonable order ('hi, I'm the voice on the radio, kill your commander pls") if they outnumber your supporters and think they'd rather follow some other guy now. If you can't enforce obedience of your commands, you're a figurehead.

    This would be a valid question if Lyons' BoS were more shady and neutral like the regular BoS or the Outcasts. Since they're pretty selfless and heroic, it can be assumed that those opposing them are either evil or retarded and killing them is doing a favor to the world.

    It's Righteous Vengeance, somebody needs to pay :killitwithfire:

    Also, routing them from the purifier made them intensely butthurt so it's better to go out and finish the job.
     
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  24. Gangrelrumbler Arcane Patron

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    Yeah that was my point. The only actually villainous (and not just stupid) member of the organization is a glorified radio speaker.

    They don't do anything heroic either, they brag about helping the community but lets do some fact checking
    -Despite having an extensive knowledge of the pre-war tech they didn't bother disarming the nuke in the Megaton
    -They didn't bother to do anything about the purifier until they found out that the Enclave wants it.
    Sure they fought super-mutants if they encounter them but even fucking raiders do that.

    Why? They have no fucking code, you can just block the entrance they came in and then wait for them to starve. What are they gonna do? Piss into the purifier? The most they can do is figure out the code and turn the thing on, which will provide everyone with pure water? Actually how did they want to keep the water from everyone? The outro clearly shows the river being clean which means that everyone can just go there and take the fucking water. Sure they could build a dam or anything, but they could also do it without controlling the purifier.
     
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  25. WhiteGuts Arcane

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    I'm looking for my father, a middle-aged man. Have you seen him ?
     
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