Why writing spell scrolls is so rare in RPGs?

[Atchodas]

Can craft all kinds of scrolls in DoS games but OP is a hater so no mention

 

[zapotec]

In Ultima Online you can scribe scrolls with the Inscription skills

 

[volklore]

I think crafting sucks and the less there is of that in RPGs the better. Nothing beats good itemization and resource managemnt. I'd rather have it limited to itemized/buyable scrolls than having to deal with thousands of crafting materials clogging my inventory.

 

[Atchodas]

I'd rather have it limited to itemized/buyable scrolls than having to deal with thousands of crafting materials clogging my inventory.

Well the issue here is with shitty inventory interfaces, it wouldnt be too complicated for developers to implement categories into inventory interface equipment, consumables,crafting materials, quest items etc, and then there should be crafting interface that shows you all known recipes and what ingredients you need to craft certain item.

I personally enjoy in-depth crafting systems.

 

[Alex]

I like crafting, though I don't think any game managed to do it quire well. My issue with it is that usually you can really make anything too interesting. Arcanum had some pretty interesting crafting options, but at the end of the day you were still only crafting something someone else invented. There was little player input; it was just a matter of finding the schematics and following the recipe. Underworld on the other hand had some pretty nice customisation with crafting, allowing you to use different kinds of pieces in the recipe for different effects, and each piece usually having some quality that influenced the final item. The combat system also meant that those bonuses could make a lot of difference in combat as well. But the overall options were still things you could find in combat.

 

[thesheeep]

Scrolls do not make sense in systems in which retooling your spell selection is as easy as clicking a button, and regaining your spellcasting ability only takes a few minuts of waiting, or resting is never a problem.

This is the main reason.

In the vast majority of games, it just doesn't make sense to do it.

In the games where it does make some sense, it just isn't fun.
Feels like work more often than not - and in RPGs, the crafting systems are usually an obvious afterthought, making them even less likely to be enjoyable.

 

[ghostdog]

You can scribe scrolls in BG-ToB. Only high level Thieves and Bards. Not very useful though.

https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Scribe_Scrolls

 

[Inconceivable]

You could do it in Morrowind by enchanting a blank piece of paper, right?
idk I never experimented with that stuff but I seem to recall it was a thing.

R U Seriously? I never knew that!

 

[lukaszek]

i think issue is more with scrolls usage than with their creation.

dnd scrolls gave us access to spells that are inferior to ones cast by mage. Combine that with high magic setting and there isnt much incentive to use them. Why would you craft them even if that was possible?
Such model was then copied over to many other games.

And I do love scrolls hoarding and usage. Not really big on crafting but whatever. Solasta could be great for players willing to make scrolls based spellcaster except... Rogues do not receive umd. Instead all the classes can only cast scrolls of which spells are already available to them


Morrowind had scrolls done right but as already mentioned - cant craft them. Still, this is what im looking for - no magic user can utilize hoarded scrolls during time of need. Or potion. Or artifact. Little difference.

 

[Cryomancer]

layers are then guaranteed to hoard it for the final boss and scribe whichever spell will be most effective against him

That is not the case of Gothic 2 RETURNING. A fire rain scroll is extremely valuable for a circle 1 magic user in chapter 1. In chapter 6, he doesn't need it. It is more used when you are having problems with a boss in the first half of the game or to farm a lot of XP from high level enemies. It is not something which you should hoard to the end game cuz at end game, they will value nothing. More close to end game = less high level scrolls value.

 

[mondblut]

layers are then guaranteed to hoard it for the final boss and scribe whichever spell will be most effective against him

That is not the case of Gothic 2 RETURNING. A fire rain scroll is extremely valuable for a circle 1 magic user in chapter 1. In chapter 6, he doesn't need it. It is more used when you are having problems with a boss in the first half of the game or to farm a lot of XP from high level enemies. It is not something which you should hoard to the end game cuz at end game, they will value nothing. More close to end game = less high level scrolls value.

You seriously expect people to spend limited consumables as they come? Bro, do you even RPG?

 

[Zeriel]

i think issue is more with scrolls usage than with their creation.

dnd scrolls gave us access to spells that are inferior to ones cast by mage. Combine that with high magic setting and there isnt much incentive to use them. Why would you craft them even if that was possible?
Such model was then copied over to many other games.

And I do love scrolls hoarding and usage. Not really big on crafting but whatever. Solasta could be great for players willing to make scrolls based spellcaster except... Rogues do not receive umd. Instead all the classes can only cast scrolls of which spells are already available to them


Morrowind had scrolls done right but as already mentioned - cant craft them. Still, this is what im looking for - no magic user can utilize hoarded scrolls during time of need. Or potion. Or artifact. Little difference.

I think a big problem with adaptations of D&D in CRPGs is they include some parts of the system, but not all the depth. In theory, the epic level ability of rogues to use any scroll or magic in ToB would be fantastically powerful, but in reality for a non-caster it's usually better to just have an item that does the same or better thing all the time/permanently than using scrolls. For example, the ridiculously OP cloak of spell reflecting in BG2 as opposed to using scrolls to create magical defenses. But in tabletop there's a lot more flexibility and insane things you could do with ability to use any scroll, with limitless money (which you basically have as a high level rogue) you would essentially be a god in tabletop.

I think this aspect is one thing that is missed in the ancient high level fighter/rogue versus mage debate in old D&D editions in CRPGs, where people say fighters and rogues fall off versus mages. In tabletop or in stories, high level fighters and rogues are insanely scary because they are basically walking armaments of magical artifacts and tools that make them horrifying to face, even if in theory you throw them onto battlefield with plain plate/leather and weapons versus a mage they'd get cooked. In the proper setting/lore they would be coming after the mage with tools that completely decimate the mage's defenses, or make them cloaked in just as much magic as the mage.

 

[Ninjerk]

I think a scroll-crafting profession was implemented in WoW in Wrath of the Lich King or Cataclysm, but it wasn't anything terribly exciting.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Because it is boring and I skip it anyway, along with making potions and similar crafting shit which requires you to constantly vacuum a shitton of half-useless reagents.

 

[Ninjerk]

Because it is boring and I skip it anyway, along with making potions and similar crafting shit which requires you to constantly vacuum a shitton of half-useless reagents.

Sounds like you don't like crafting

 

[Calthaer]

layers are then guaranteed to hoard it for the final boss and scribe whichever spell will be most effective against him

That is not the case of Gothic 2 RETURNING. A fire rain scroll is extremely valuable for a circle 1 magic user in chapter 1. In chapter 6, he doesn't need it. It is more used when you are having problems with a boss in the first half of the game or to farm a lot of XP from high level enemies. It is not something which you should hoard to the end game cuz at end game, they will value nothing. More close to end game = less high level scrolls value.

You seriously expect people to spend limited consumables as they come? Bro, do you even RPG?

RPG = Real Particular Gathering, a form of hoarding simulator where you can collect lots of stuff and buy a house - or even multiple houses - just to store the big collection of scrolls, potions, reagents, weapons, armor, jewelry, crafting materials, and other sundry items that one picks up in medieval fantasy land.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Because it is boring and I skip it anyway, along with making potions and similar crafting shit which requires you to constantly vacuum a shitton of half-useless reagents.

Sounds like you don't like crafting

Not much, as I have yet to see an execution that is not tedious. Apart from the basic "find a valuable ingredient and pay a NPC with decades of crafting experience to make something out of it for you", which I don't mind.

 

[Denim Destroyer]

Please no more crafting in RPGs just make some decent gear and place it throughout the world instead of bloating my inventory with sixteen horse tails that are needed to craft the ultimate sword of valor and good.

 

[Ninjerk]

Please no more crafting in RPGs just make some decent gear and place it throughout the world instead of bloating my inventory with sixteen horse tails that are needed to craft the ultimate sword of valor and good.

You'll gather those horsetails and not a hair less.

 

[Cryomancer]

to spend limited consumables as they come?

Not as they come by. For example, while playing returning as a water mage, I generally use all of my fire rain scrolls in chapter 3, so I can get enough experience to learn the 4th circle of magic soon as possible as the 3rd circle of magic for water mages are the worst of worst.

This scrolls allow you to kill enemies which you can't even damage with low tier magic.

For necromancers, I just can't do the initiation quest into the circle of darkness to be able to learn dark magic, without scrolls. The enemies can cast tier 4/5/6 magic and you need to assassinate a novice of the opposite deity in a place full of powerful fire mages. However, I tend to use the fire rain scrolls against dragons in chapter 4 when they summon minions, so I can quickly dispatch then.

There are a sweetspot between hoading till the end game and using as the come by. Gothic 2 RETURNING is in the mid ground.

Some people who has problems vs certain bosses also tends to use this scrolls against then. Scrolls are mostly used in early and mid game.

 

[Rafidur]

dnd scrolls gave us access to spells that are inferior to ones cast by mage. Combine that with high magic setting and there isnt much incentive to use them. Why would you craft them even if that was possible?

I think the whole point is to run them on Use Magic Device dudes, or shittier casters like sorcerer dippers - to have the rest of your party able to cast self buffs, or summon some chump blockers or haste or whatever if they're too far to hit things.

 

[Raghar]

Didn't Temple of Elemental Evil allow to craft scrolls?

 

[ionic atomic]

NetHack has a scroll scribing feature. Doing so requires using magic markers, which are very rare and have limited durability, so fireball assembly line shenanigans are not possible.

 

[Reinhardt]

Can craft all kinds of scrolls in DoS games but OP is a hater so no mention

Sven should put it into BG3. Imagine Victor's cognitive dissonance.

 

[laclongquan]

I can only list 4 RPGs where a magic user can write spells in scrolls and one where you can ask special scrolls from a NPC.

• PF : WoTR - And it is expensive, require expensive kits, require expensive reagents and a successful check while resting to write a single scroll
• Gothic 2 + RETURNING mod. You see NPCs which write scrolls, but to be able to learn how to write scrolls, you can only do that with the mod returning. The base game doesn't allow it.
• NWN2 : You just cast the spell in a "blank" scroll.
• KoTC1
• Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager allows you to ask a NPC to craft scrolls for you. Despite the lv cap = 15 which in 2E limits you to the 7th circle of magic, you can get once per the entire campaign, a meteor swarm single use scroll

Writing scrolls is in many medium and high fantasy settings, the commonest way which a Wizard raises money. Why so few RPGs allow you to do that?

One reason is the do-away with spellcasting ingredients. Without the part of gathering ingredients to make scrolls, the scroll scribing is too boring to worth much development time.

Second reason is the existence of natural spellcasting. Why would you make items that can be replaced easily and without cost by using natural spellcasting? Just a sleep and voila! You can cast a bunch without micromanaging your inventory.

Third is the potential money and skill exploits. Morrowind show that making spell can be a game-breaker activity. IWD2 prove that multiple combatants that can throw out spells in a horrifying one-side battle: team of six, with two wizards, can blast 6 fireball on one area and wipe out most resistance. 6 grease can stall any boss in place. by limit the creation of spell scrolls (and wands and potions) they can prevent overuse of overwhelming advantage in spell arsenal.

So in the end devs just do away with spell scribing. With good reasons.