Wildstar - Next NCSoft MMORPG

[Mangoose]

Repeat after me: Wildstar's not a good action game. That does not mean that Wildstar is not an action game.

 

[Xenich]

Not at all comparable, because playing a game like Defender means you are shooting and dodging a couple dozen enemies. In Wildstar you fight your standard mob which attacks slowly which you either dodge or you don't dodge depending if dodge is on cooldown lol.

I don't see how a "cooldown" has anything to do with a game being twitch or not. /shrug

How the fuck do you dodge away from an enemy's attack - the first principle of action games - when the ability to dodge is on cooldown?

Via tactical positioning and timing of both your character and the use of the dodge ability. You do it all the time in games like TSW and even NW. That is, your dodge ability is kept in reserve for special needs, or in cases where there is a pattern in timing of a NPCs ability and the rest of the time you keep your toon positioned in a manner so you can easily sidestep or run out of the area of effect. Funny thing is, I rarely use the dodge ability in games like TSW. I just position myself at the apex of a traversal area so I can easily step out of the area, or in cases where it is omni directional, I watch for the tell tale and then run away out of the area early. The point is, dodge being on cool down doesn't change the fact that I am using "player action" ie "twitch play" to be able to avoid or defeat the encounter.

Dude, Neverwinter is a VERY easy game to play. I've multiple characters and dozens of hours on it.

Difficulty is not an element of establishing a game being twitchy or not. It is irrelevant to the evaluation.

And as for TSW, nobody uses the dodge skill. Because TSW is about synergy of your skill choices and activating them correctly, not twitchiness. FFS.

TSW is massively twitchy. You spam builders, then rotate in finishers, rinse and repeat. The faster you can get your rotations, well... the more damage you are going to do.

Stop playing shit-easy action games and thinking you're good at action games. LOL @ trying to describe your tactics and strategy as if you're a master. Are you fucking kidding me? Yes, you're the master at twitch games that a 10 year old can play. When's the last time an enemy in Neverwinter or TSW moved out of the way of your attack in the same way that higher level enemies in an arcade game like Defender do?

And there were many arcade games that had special abilities that were limited or timed use which you had to strategically use at optimal times to get the most out of them.

Something tells me you've heard of these "so called arcade games" but never played them to see how butt-rapingly hard they are compared to the MMO twitch-shits that you play.

Difficulty is irrelevant. I am not complaining, I am attempting to establish what you claim to be Twitchy or Actiony while explaining what I mean. So far, you have been unable to establish a coherent premise and are now applying classical fallacious argumentative techniques (ie making accusations you have no possible way to validate).

It is about player reaction time

Yes, you get a fucking one second reaction window to dodge in Neverwinter, whereas in Ninja Gaiden you have 1-5/10th of that.

Again, irrelevant in the determination. What is your point here? Seriously, it is like you are all over the place.

A non-actiony game would be chess, or a turn based game, etc... the point is that Wildstar is a very twitchy game.

No-one is saying Wildstar or NW or TSW is non-twitchy. That's you projecting your black-and-white-thinking and straw-manning my points. My point is that Wildstar, NW, are bad performing twitch games. If you can't get through your thick skull that there is a nuance amongst "not a twitch game" "is a twitch game" and "is a bad twitch game" not to mention the other logical possibilities "is a good twitch game" "is a good non-twitch game" "is a bad non-twitch game" then you might be not a moron.
---
TLDR there is only one good twitch-based (well-populated) MMO and that is Planetside 2 because it's a shooter that for the most part plays with the freedom of a shooter, and the enemies are players that both attack and avoid you at the same time.

It's not twitch when you have a cooldown on your dodge.

That is what started it. Now you are moving the goal posts.

Pick up a logical argument book sometime. Seriously, I am not going to argue this stupid circular logic of yours.

 

[Xenich]

Repeat after me: Wildstar's not a good action game. That does not mean that Wildstar is not an action game.

Are you sure that was my premise or was that the argument that came up because you went off about cooldowns not being twitch? Go ahead, quote my premise and validate your argument here? What is that? You can't using my own quotes? Funny how that is!

 

[Avellion]

I will never see why mmo devs keep insisting on adding the dodge command to their games.

All the dodge command results in is that each class defends and avoids damage in the exact same way. And encounters all too often just fall into dodge the big bad attack then tank the rest of the weak attacks and spank. I dont know about you guys, but I greatly prefer avoiding damage through good use of your class skills and abilities. Does anyone here know if they at least got the dodge command right this time in Wildstar or is it still the same old crap?

 

[Xenich]

I will never see why mmo devs keep insisting on adding the dodge command to their games.

All the dodge command results in is that each class defends and avoids damage in the exact same way. And encounters all too often just fall into dodge the big bad attack then tank the rest of the weak attacks and spank. I dont know about you guys, but I greatly prefer avoiding damage through good use of your class skills and abilities. Does anyone here know if they at least got the dodge command right this time in Wildstar or is it still the same old crap?

I agree Avellion, I prefer character development as the means to deal with various encounter elements, not twitch features like dodge (or having to run around constantly). That is not to say that I can't enjoy these action arcade games, there are times when letting the mind drift while reflex takes over is appealing, but then we have had over a decade of "Mind drifting" games, you would think some would like to start thinking again. /shrug

 

[felipepepe]

WoW have class skills like blink, ice blocks and other cooldowns, or simply moving out of the attack areas. TERA had a full action combat, with hitboxes, manual dogdes and everything. Stuff like Guild Wars 2 dodge button is just a retarded compromise between those two, that as Avellon said, makes all classes avoid damage the same way.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Wildstar classes have wow-ish escapes too. Blinks, stuns, interrrupts, absorb shields, avoidance skills, slows and etc. I played last beta till level 21 and it never felt like therolling fest GW2 is, even in adventures and dungeon. You can easly avoid most enemy skills by side stepping or sprinting. Some bosses have quicker cast time on melee aoe skills so maybe melee classses need a bit more rolling but as a medic I rarely used rolling. In PvE

PvP is something between 80s disco fever and rollfest. In crowded fights, colourfull skill telegraphs on the ground become a real pain in the eyes...Thank god they put an option to turn them off.

 

[Avellion]

So the game can now be pre-ordered. The game will not however come with a Collectors edition by the looks of it.

However it will still come with a more money than common sense digital deluxe edition for 75 US dollars.

 

[shihonage]

Hopefully after this game bites the dust the WoW clones will finally stop.

 

[Eyeball]

I'll give it 9-12 months before F2P.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

It's a goddamn shame it's an MMO. Could be an awesome game otherwise.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

So the game can now be pre-ordered. The game will not however come with a Collectors edition by the looks of it.

However it will still come with a more money than common sense digital deluxe edition for 75 US dollars.

That video was hard to watch.

 

[Bubbles]

That video was hard to watch.

They really, really need to stop trying so hard. Just look at this shit:

Welcome to the WildStar Beta!
Welcome, intrepid tester! Thank you for signing over your assets to the Protostar Corporation in that Non-Disclosure Agreement you most likely skimmed through. Don't worry, we'll take good care of your family for you.

 

[Xenich]

That video was hard to watch.

They really, really need to stop trying so hard. Just look at this shit:

Welcome to the WildStar Beta!
Welcome, intrepid tester! Thank you for signing over your assets to the Protostar Corporation in that Non-Disclosure Agreement you most likely skimmed through. Don't worry, we'll take good care of your family for you.

Being that I haven't beta tested it, I don't know.... I see their responses as humor based. Just looking at the video, it reminded me of Animaniacs or Loony Toons.

Thing is, I can respect most gaming styles. Problem I have is with fucking worthless pieces of shit who need their brain bashed in because they are too fucking stupid to understand how to properly segregate genres and styles (ie... people who say "turn based is an outdated mechanism" rather than understanding it is nothing more than a style of play. May those who do not understand be beaten in the fucking head till dead and have their corpse pissed on).

 

[Bubbles]

Horrible game judging from the current beta. I can't figure out what kind of vision they have for this game. The tutorial is vaguely big-budget with long voiced in-game cutscenes, but there's no spoken quest texts and and everything is presented in tiny floating speech bubbles that scream "skip me!" pretty loudly. Tutorial gameplay is truly horrible, I honestly never played anything so bad in a Western MMO before. It gets a little better late, but nowhere near good.

The "paths" are just boring fluff, "you can be a settler" seems to equate to "you can summon mail boxes and stores for people once every 10 minutes if you click on 300 environmental objects first". Quests are the usual toddler-level stuff - either "kill x of y" or "right click on these twenty highlighted items".

Combat feels like a budget version of GW2 with less versatily and variety (!). Engineer core gameplay is "backpedal while channelling cone attack", Esper (Mesmer ripoff) is "stand still while channelling cone attack". Later you get instant cone attacks. I couldn't bear to try melee, but I can't see how it would be fun with this combat system.

The skill system is basically identical to TOR et.al., only that the skill trees don't look like trees. Work the same way though.

And this is a June release? Subscription based? This is going to set a new sub-to-F2P record.

 

[Mangoose]

It's not twitch when you have a cooldown on your dodge.

That is what started it.

Yes, that is only half the description I made of Wildstar.

Here is the second half:

It's twitch only when enemies make big telegraphed attacks, while you spend the cooldown trading little blows.

And then a few more lines down:

Compared to all MMOs, sure it's as twitchy as it gets, besides maybe Vindictus

So please explain to me how me saying that Wildstar is the second twitchiest MMO = Wildstar is not a twitchy game?

 

[Zeriel]

Tera exists, you know.

It's too bad people wrote off Tera as a shit game, since it was the only MMO to actually do action combat well. I mean, yeah, it is shit overall, but it offered some serious lessons if anyone truly wanted to do action combat well in an MMO. I'm guessing since no one bothered, that "action combat" was just a buzzword for the genre to move boxes.

 

[Mangoose]

Tera exists, you know.

It's too bad people wrote off Tera as a shit game, since it was the only MMO to actually do action combat well. I mean, yeah, it is shit overall, but it offered some serious lessons if anyone truly wanted to do action combat well in an MMO. I'm guessing since no one bothered, that "action combat" was just a buzzword for the genre to move boxes.

Well TERA isn't any better or worse, its AI was shit and offered no serious lessons to me given that I play non-MMO action combat games.

Even Vindictus is for the most part very slow and unchallenging.

 

[subotaiy]

There's no AI in pvp.

 

[Avellion]

Action combat in mmorpgs isnt that good yet, but neither is the hotkey combat, but the worst is easily the uncanny valley of between the two. Where sadly wildstar lies. Combat systems that come with the strengths of neither and the weaknesses of both.Of the Action MMORPGs TERA is probably the best of the bunch, but it still isnt very good. Honestly, mmo combat as a whole isn't very good.

Honestly, mmos should stop trying to focus on making battle systems that are (only) slightly less crap than the ones before it, and focus on the actual strengths of the genre. And no, the main reason I play mmos is not to kill stuff.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Is it to simulate sex with animated pixels?

 

[Mangoose]

There's no AI in pvp.

Oh okay. I didn't try PVP but I'll take your word for it because I can imagine how it can be pretty challenging in PVP.

 

[John_Blazze]

I gave this game a fair chance, been in two beta weekends. Couldn't bring myself to play more than 2-3 hours in either one.
I wanted to try and level up a bit to see if things pick up later on. I had shitload of free time, no pressing matters, but still couldnt bring myslef to stick around as i was bored out of my fucking mind.

I had way more fun in old ass WoW when I decided to finally check it out for the first time few months ago. Even though its almost the same shit.

 

[Avellion]

Is it to simulate sex with animated pixels?

Of course it is.

Why else would mmorpgs support housing and all these races? Just look at the races of this game, each and every one designed to occomodate for at least one fetish.

Spoiler

Human: Autosexuality
Granok: Macrophilia
Aurin: Zoophilia
Mordesh: Necrophilia

Cassian: See Human.
Mechari: Mechanophilia
Draken: Erotophonophilia
Chua: Plushophilia

Edit: In case anyone wonders why I brought up houses. We all know what houses really are used for (nsfw).

 

[Metro]

Old/Vanilla WoW was fun because it was challenging. Everything today is piss easy/modeled after New WoW with heavily scripted quests and dungeons you can faceroll.