Wizardry & Disco Elysium: how are these games the same genre?

[Bah]

Also, real-time action games that happen to have procedurally generated dungeons are roguelikes.

 

[Theodora]

Why did you make this thread?

When Shin Megami Tensei, Might & Magic, Wasteland, Crusader Kings II, Sunless Skies, A Legionary Life, UnReal World, Knights of the Chalice, Planescape Torment, the Witcher 3, Battle Brothers, Darkest Dungeon, Alpha Protocol, EVE, Dark Souls, and Pathologic are all RPGs; then what can possibly be gained from policing the boundaries over this particular divergence?

What does genre even mean to you that this can be seen as worthwhile spending countless hours arguing over?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

What does genre even mean to you that this can be seen as worthwhile spending countless hours arguing over?

It means nothing. They just enjoy bashing Disco Elysium.

 

[PrK]

Disco Elysium devs kneel to black people

lol

1. citation needed
2. Being unable to separate the art from the artist is an SJW trait.
3. In DE you play as a cop, the most sympathetic character is also one and you can beat up the most notable black dude. You can see how in actuality it is in fact a very problematic game for any kneeler cuck.

 

[mondblut]

The original "narrative" in TTRPGs is "go to the dungeon and collect treasure for experience points", and "role-playing characters" ONLY used to mean "I'll play a role of fighting man and you'll be the magic-user this time".

Everything beyond that was brought in by misguided fags that should have stuck to larping and gay orgies.

If we're to live in the past, we would still be in a feudal society, living as peasants. The RPG genre was evolved, and so does you need to ! Just be more progressive and positive.

Cheers !

That's what your wife says when she brings home the bulls?

 

[AArmanFV]

What does genre even mean to you that this can be seen as worthwhile spending countless hours arguing over?

The OP want to see spergs triggered. Sometimes is funny to read the responses though.

 

[Saduj]

In addition to DE, Titan Outpost is an RPG without combat.

AOD has both good combat and backgrounds that are meant to be played without engaging in combat. So is it an RPG when you play as an assassin but not an RPG when you play as a merchant?

 

[Ol' Willy]

When Shin Megami Tensei, Might & Magic, Wasteland, Crusader Kings II, Sunless Skies, A Legionary Life, UnReal World, Knights of the Chalice, Planescape Torment, the Witcher 3, Battle Brothers, Darkest Dungeon, Alpha Protocol, EVE, Dark Souls, and Pathologic are all RPGs; then what can possibly be gained from policing the boundaries over this particular divergence?

Shin Megami Tensei - JRPG bullshit, not a real RPG.
Crusader Kings II - grand strategy, if it is an RPG, then HoMM is RPG too.
the Witcher 3 - action game. If it's an RPG, then last Far Cry is RPG too.
Darkest Dungeon - roguelike dungeon crawler.
Alpha Protocol - action game with very good C&C.
Dark Souls - action game.

Half of the games on your list are not RPGs, but crossovers at best.

 

[moraes]

AOD has both good combat and backgrounds that are meant to be played without engaging in combat. So is it an RPG when you play as an assassin but not an RPG when you play as a merchant?

AOD has a combat system and the option to not engage in combat. Disco Elysium doesn't have a combat system, but you engage in combat scenarios with its generic resolution system, it's an electronic adaptation of systems like BRP, FATE, Burning Wheel, etc.

 

[CappenVarra]

quality thread, hat tip to OP

clearly, the two games in question are not in the same genre

one is a sword & sorcery dungeon-crawling phantasy and the other a post-soviet disco game

it's like saying Thomas Malory and Donna Summers (erm, Женщина Лето?) are in the same genre

 

[Grotesque]

The discourse that Disco Elysium is a RPG is pushed by morons with the same mindset that shout on campuses that there are more than two genders, etc.

Didn't you knew that RPG is a codex-construct?

 

[alyvain]

Some of you have been on this site for 20 years and you still participate in this dumbfuck discussion that arises almost every year of the last decade

EDIT: oh I guess this particular fight in this thread has ended. See you next time when a visual novel written with Twine or a Dark Souls-clone will be acclaimed as a top gaem of 2020/2021 according to the new Codex poll

 

[Latro]

The question comes up and gets solved again and again and again. Combatfags ALWAYS win.

 

[Urthor]

If you can't see the clear influence of tabletop roleplaying games on both of these vidya thingos idk what to say. Anyone who's opened a Core Rulebook wouldn't make shit threads like OP

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

In 1979, the first Choose Your Own Adventure book, The Cave of Time by Edward Packard, was published, and this was followed within a few years by the creation of gamebooks that built on CYOA by adding RPG elements. The Warlock of Firetop Mountain was among the earliest gamebooks and received a digital translation in 2016 that adapted the original format to the computer medium. As for Disco Elysium:

1. Exploration-related aspects are (with character-related and combat-related aspects) one of the three cores of RPG mechanics, but exploration is almost entirely absent from Disco Elysium
   
2. Character interaction consists principally of clicking on dialogue options, which is not a true game mechanic
3. Even the character development/customization options mostly affect flavor text
4. Combat is missing from the game except for two brief sequences where the only mechanic is equivalent to clicking on dialogue options

Disco Elysium should be considered a digital gamebook, CYOA, or work of interactive fiction, not an RPG.

 

[Doktor Best]

To the people who claim DE is a point and click adventure, can you name me one game in that genre that has stats/skills and dialogue with stat/skillchecks?

 

[luj1]

To the people who claim DE is a point and click adventure, can you name me one game in that genre that has stats/skills and dialogue with stat/skillchecks?

 

[Lady_Error]

What elements do these games actually have in common?

Stats that influence gameplay. How many times have we been over this?

 

[Karellen]

To the people who claim DE is a point and click adventure, can you name me one game in that genre that has stats/skills and dialogue with stat/skillchecks?

There must be a good reason why you posted Little Big Adventure, which is an interesting genre hybrid that nonetheless is not a point-and-click adventure, has (rather bad) combat, has no stats or skills, and has almost no dialogue choices, let alone dialogue choices affected by stats. However, I must admit that I can't quite fathom what that reason is.

 

[Sweeper]

It was ridden with trash mobs, it was combat-heavy, the text heavy thing is a myth by people who never played it

Before you get to Ravel's Maze, which is like more than half way through the game, the only combat heavy areas are the Modron Cube and Undersigil... which are both optional areas.
Calling PS:T a combat-heavy RPG is a bit of a stretch.

 

[mondblut]

To the people who claim DE is a point and click adventure, can you name me one game in that genre that has stats/skills and dialogue with stat/skillchecks?

Daughter of the Serpent.

 

[barghwata]

To the people who claim DE is a point and click adventure, can you name me one game in that genre that has stats/skills and dialogue with stat/skillchecks?

Daughter of the Serpent.

So...... all you did was find an Adventure/RPG hybrid, i mean the game even came with a supplementary PnP RPG using the same system character creation system for god's sake

Character creation systems are not an important element of adventure games and they never were, they're very much specific to RPGs which is why adventure games that have them are an exception not the rule and are generally referred to as "hybrids".

You just have to accept the fact that some games are not easy to put in a category, just like Disco Elysium.

 

[Ventidius]

They are not even in the same medium.

 

[Mortmal]

Ah its this time of the month already, being a RPG is a state of mind.

 

[mondblut]

So...... all you did was find an Adventure/RPG hybrid,

I actually played that one back in the day. I didn't have to "find" anything.

i mean the game even came with a supplementary PnP RPG using the same system character creation system for god's sake

So? There is a Starcraft RPG too.

I doubt that the rules of this "Alchemist of Istanbul" forcibly prevent you from shooting somebody because you feel like it.

Character creation systems are not an important element of adventure games and they never were, they're very much specific to RPGs

Except that nowadays every fucking shooter or action adventure has it.

You just have to accept the fact that some games are not easy to put in a category, just like Disco Elysium.

Not easy to put in a category of RPG, indeed.