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Wizard's Crown

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Saxon1974, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. Saxon1974 Prophet

    Saxon1974
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    So for some reason I never played this game back in the day, or at least If I did it wasn't enough to remember it. I must have been about 12 when it was release I think.

    Seems like a quality old school game so far if you dont care much about graphics (It was released in 1986 after all). Awesome tactical options in combat, it even determines if you shield is effective based on which way you are facing.

    I started a group of characters with 2 fighters, 1 fighter ranger, 1 thief, 1 ranger-priest, 1 fighe priest, 1 priest and 1 sorceror. I am getting my ass handed to me by thugs. Any advice on character creation? I selected level 3 difficulty but I might have to bump that down a bit.

    Should I select lots of XP during character creation or wait to get that later?
     
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  2. Crooked Bee (no longer) a wide-wandering bee Patron

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    I don't remember much, but I believe it's good idea to give everyone in your party high starting Strength (for Chain (?) Mail, sorry my memory is fuzzy) and Dexterity (for combat initiative, which is VERY important).

    Also I don't think you need 2 pure fighters. Not sure if you need pure priests or mages either. I'd suggest going for a fighter mage or another fighter priest instead of one of the fighters maybe, and a fighter thief instead of the thief. Then again, I don't think it's such a big deal.
     
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  3. Luzur Prestigious Gentleman Good Sir

    Luzur
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    i played this so long ago that i can barely remember it.

    must be like 20 years ago.
     
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  4. Fatty Augur

    Fatty
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    I play on Max difficulty.

    I didn't add XP during character creation, or any skills except Karma for priests and Evaluate Magic for the sorcerer (I don't even consider casting spells until I increment Cast which I put off until I get Evaluate Magic to 100).

    I put all the rest of starting points into 1) however much Intelligence is needed to cover the classes you've picked, then 2) however much Strength is needed to carry the weapons you have planned, then 3) the rest into Life and Dexterity (1:1 ratio is ok). You'd be surprised how effective even a 27 weapon skill is...you can get by with it at the beginning.

    Put all starting points into Karma for your priests, or at least two of the priests since you have 3. They need to be able to stop bleeding. If you cannot stop bleeding the character that is bleeding dies when you exit camp.

    Stay in tight formation and use the <G>uard command on your front liners. Let the thugs come to you.

    A spear wielder on your second line helps since they can attack two squares and can attack to <K>ill with little likelihood of retaliation.

    I believe the Scan skill determines who should be on point. Don't put them any further than 2-3 ahead until that skill gets pretty high. Stealth may affect the point as well, I've forgotten but I usually increase those two on the thief equally. Should prevent you from being ambushed for the time being unless you're unlucky.

    That should get you through the beginning of the game.

    Edit: forget Dexterity, had to boot up the game to remember, been awhile
     
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  5. MMXI Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    MMXI
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    The beginning of the game is hard. You need to get some decent equipment and pick up some experience before your characters can survive easier. The best thing you can do is to make sure all your characters, no matter their class, have high enough life at the start of the game. This increases your early game survival considerably. Also, be more defensive and conservative in combat early on. Keep your characters close together.
     
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  6. Saxon1974 Prophet

    Saxon1974
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    Great thanks for the tips Fatty and MMXI.

    I think my main issue was i got ambushed a few times and didnt reallize enemies could be invisible so i kept having thugs right in the middle of my party and my non heavy fighters were getting thrashed. Man I love this level of old school tactical options. Fights do take a while but much more rewarded when you win.

    Spears are actually dam usefull in this game which is rare.
     
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  7. Saxon1974 Prophet

    Saxon1974
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    Is there a way to heal serious wounds outside of your priest having high enough Karma?
     
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  8. Fatty Augur

    Fatty
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    Have a character with high Scan (probably your thief) use the <V>iew command to reveal hidden enemies. Or anytime someone just doesn't have anything to do and won't benefit from being on <G>uard, use <V>iew.

    I do not believe so. If there is, I never used it.
     
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  9. Saxon1974 Prophet

    Saxon1974
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    Ok thanks Fatty. Hopefully I can get enough experience for my Priest that my injured characters dont die.

    I struggle to play games where the combat is so tactical that is can take an hour for 1 fight. Does this game throw tons and tons of filler combat at you? Granted it does have the quick combat option so that might help. I get maybe 2 hours a night for games so I dont like spending 75% in 1 encounter even though I really like lots of tactical options....its just more of a time thing for me.

    I think that is why I struggle finishing the gold box games, I finished pool of radiance and curse but didnt finish the rest because of the amount of filler combat. I think I read this games combat system was the basis for the gold box games....I thought pool of radiance had a nice exploration\combat balance where most of the other games threw tons and tons of filler combat at you.

    It's either this game or play Kingdoms of Amalur (Tried it for 5 minutes and hated it). Amazing to me these 20+ year old games are more appealing to me than the AAA games of today.
     
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  10. Albers Educated

    Albers
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    Yes, you could say it is all filler combat. Mountains of combat, each lasting a long time.

    My biggest complaint was not being able to easily and quickly see people's injuries/hit points. You need to cursor over them, then examine them, only to find out they're "bleeding" or something equally vague.
     
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  11. Fatty Augur

    Fatty
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    This.

    Combat is ALL this game is. One big tactical fantasy combat sim. The sequel, Eternal Dagger, has alot more of a plot and is more of an adventure but is still loaded with tactical fantasy combat.

    As I recall I can crank through alot more than one combat an hour. I never set a stopwatch or anything but 10-15 minutes each seems more likely than 45 minutes, once you get used to it.

    When it comes to RPGs I pretty much play nothing but old 80's and 90's games any more. From what I've read about KoA its not likely to influence me into changing that. I'm playing Ultima 2 right now which, while its an admittedly terrible game, its far more enjoyable than DA:O, which I still kick myself for buying even at $10.
     
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  12. Saxon1974 Prophet

    Saxon1974
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    Interesting, ok well I will still play it for a while and see how far I get. If the fights take 10 to 15 minutes and are rewarding then I might still enjoy it.

    Question; Is it good strategy to move your fighters around enemy shields but splitting your party? I kept having blows deflected by shields when facing them head on so i moved my fighters to the sides to strike at them. The tricky thing though is doing that without exposing your non-fighter characters.

    I play some of the more modern games but I find myself more and more going back to the oldies. I have Realms of Darkness and Legacy of the Ancients waiting for me next. Looking to obtain a copy of Demon's Winter and the Eternal Dagger if I can find them at a reasonable price ebay.

    Curious your opinion of some of the other early SSI games?

    Do you like these?

    Questron
    Gemstone Warrior
    Rings of Zilfin
     
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  13. DaveO Erudite

    DaveO
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    Since I may be the only regular here who recently completed it with my Let's Play, let me answer the questions one-by-one

    Any advice on character creation? IF you want to power play into the sequel, then use a four priest and four sorcerer combination like I did. Priests get LUCK which reduces chances for physical attacks to hit.

    Should I select lots of XP during character creation or wait to get that later? Initially, your experience per combat should be fairly good. Make sure you return to the Inn when you have around ten experience points to take advantage of the experience bonus

    Is there a way to heal serious wounds outside of your priest having high enough Karma? Use regeneration items(a bit rare)
     
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  14. Saxon1974 Prophet

    Saxon1974
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    Interesting, thanks Dave0

    Curious what version you all play? I was playing C64 since I am a big C64 lover but I really hate the way the keymapping is setup for movement in this version. You have to use the number keys across the top of the keyboard and I constantly have to look at them to determine where I am going. I tried remapping the keys using CCS64 (my favorite C64 emulator) but i couldnt get it to work.

    Since the DOS version didn't get a sequel I want to play a version where a sequel was made.
     
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  15. MMXI Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    MMXI
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    I've always wanted to try out the Atari ST version of Wizard's Crown. I'm not sure how it plays but it does look pretty.

    If you want to carry your characters over to the sequel, you'll probably want to play the C64 or Atari 8-bit version. The Apple II version is an option, and I've never tried it, but it's probably the worst one.
     
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  16. Country_Gravy Arcane Patron

    Country_Gravy
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    Do the tavern fight and reset the dungeon to play it multiple times to build up experience and loot in the beginning. Isn't there are skill that helps you find magic items better. The evaluate magic allows you to just identify them, right? It has been quite some time since I played this game. I liked the Eternal Dagger better.

    Questron was a great game back in the day, I would recommend trying it out. I think it plays a lot like Legacy of the Ancients, which I also loved as a kid.

    I think that a game using similar combat to Wizard's Crown with updated graphics and a decent plot would be a lot of fun but a game like that will probably never be made.
     
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  17. DaveO Erudite

    DaveO
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    Search for Thieves allows finding better loot, but it's better if you have two characters with the skill. I played the Atari 8-bit version since it does have a sequel. You definitely want Search, Haggle, and Evaluate Magic to at least 100 or better by the end of day 2. The first day should be used tracking down the thugs in town. You'll get a decent reward if you clear out the town which will involve fighting undead in the cemetery area at the northwestern part of the town(you'll need a decent Turn Undead there).

    My advice would be to pick a weapon skill and stick with it until the end. Shields are totally useless, since you can equip potions(+2 or higher) for additional defense. This technique won't work very well for Eternal Dagger. Two handed weapons with the exception of bows are also pretty useless since you WANT one handed items to take advantage of the defensive items. NEVER enchant an item from +1 to +5 unless it is a weapon with very good bonuses(+40 or higher is an achievable goal).

    Enemies LOVE to flank or ambush you, so having a priest on both the top and bottom flanking sides will reduce chances of the enemy to exploit the flanks.

    P.S. - DO NOT enter the ruins of Arghan(south of town) until you've received the reward for clearing the town AND rescued the girl and obtained the +2 broadsword. Also, a Strength value over 10 is useless at the start since you only get Brigantine as the best available armor. Invest any extra points initially into Dexterity since it gives you more attacks and will give your party the first attack strike if the dexterity is high enough.
     
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  18. Fatty Augur

    Fatty
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    I don't generally move anyone around until the "cleanup" phase or in order to fill holes if a front liner croaks. Keep in mind these are all multiclassed, but here is my formation based on the class each focuses on initially. (F)ighter, (P)riest, (T)hief, (S)orcerer:

    PF
    TF
    SF
    PF

    ...The Priests can be used to fill in gaps or to make the front line wider. I don't generally alter my strategy to adjust for shields. Given the situation, you'd have to weigh the pros and cons to determine whether breaking formation to get an easier/faster kill is worth it. I don't tend to break formation until I am clearly superior to my opponents.

    I could not get Realms of Darkness to work on my emulator. Might just be a bad copy. Haven't tried Demon's Winter yet. I played the crap out of Questron back in the day but found it tedious and uninteresting today. Gemstone Warrior...man I totally forgot about that one. I know I played it years ago but can't remember much about it. I don't think I ever played Zilfin.

    C64 all the way, on an emulator. I hear ya on the keymapping though. I'm considering getting one of these since my laptop has no number pad > http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wire...TF8&coliid=I2WVQD6XGL43J6&colid=2BNZWZLM8NBMR
     
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  19. Saxon1974 Prophet

    Saxon1974
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    Why do priests fill in the gaps\protect the flanks? Seems odd to me.

    As to the C64 keymapping I remapped the up, down, left and rights keys in CCS64 to A,W,D,X so at least map movement is much easier now.

    Hey Country_Gravy, that avatar is distracting..in a good way!

    One other question;

    Should I have certain characters specialize in party skills and then give the rest of them combat skills? I have a fighter ranger that I am pumping TRACK skill into and a Priest that I am pumping Karma. SCAN, SEARCH, HAGGLE into my thief. What about all the other multi class characters? This game has so much overlap in the class skillls. Should I focus on the same skills in multiple chars?
     
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  20. Fatty Augur

    Fatty
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    Well its either them of the Sorcerer and Thief, which made less sense.

    Seems like you are on the right track. I have two thieves so one starts on scan and search and stealth and the other haggling and their weapon skill. You won't really want to overlap the non-combat skills, though, until very late in the game (and then due to nothing else to spend exp on). Once you max your skills you'll primarily spend your experience on stats. You've got wiggle room, and can always grind for more experience if you find certain skills lacking.
     
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  21. DaveO Erudite

    DaveO
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    Unfortunately, Track is not used in Wizard's Crown(but it is in the sequel). You want to have priests protecting the flanks due to Luck reducing physical attack effectiveness. You can have one or two characters specialize in Scan, but it's only used to spot sneaking or hidden enemies. I'd give Scan to a character that is not on the front formation. In regards to weapon skills, get at least two of each damage type(Cut, Bash, and Thrust). You'll thank me when you run into the Ward Pact Demons towards the end of the game. Also, save all Very Fine and Sharp/Very Sharp weapons since Tarmon is vulnerable to them(but he WILL destroy any magic weapon if you hit him with it).

    First Aid is a good skill to save your Priests some Karma. So getting it up to 150-200 will be helpful(just keep one or two sets of Bandages to use First Aid). Treat Poison comes handy against some enemies after combat. Don't forget Turn Undead to make it pretty easy to defeat them. Of course, maximize Karma as soon as you can.

    Evaluate Magic is useful all the time, Read Ancient only in a few dungeon places, and Alchemy helps for the final "marathon" dungeon. You don't need Power or the Spell casting skills much during the early game. A few points in order to cast Foxfire or Night Vision is enough up to around day 50. Past that point, you'll probably need to start doing night fights in order to find monsters and get experience.

    Having two thieves in the party really helps since one can develop Haggle and Search plus a weapon skill and the other can develop the more specialized skills(Stealth and Scan being primary to help being a good point person).
     
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  22. Saxon1974 Prophet

    Saxon1974
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    Thank you DaveO and Fatty again for the tips.

    What the crap do I do with Keys, Vials, Scrolls and Jars do? I evaluated them but it didnt tell me what they are. Do I have to use them to find out?
     
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  23. Fatty Augur

    Fatty
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    That I do not recall for sure, I'll have to defer to DaveO. Been many many years since I played it much further than the beginning ruins. My limited recollection is that most are junk, but some have enchantments you can use. Once they are identified (no star next to them) if there's nothing to them, toss them. I think there may be an alchemist in the city, though, so maybe then jars have some use.

    I dunno...sorry.
     
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  24. DaveO Erudite

    DaveO
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    Regular Keys, Vials, Scrolls, and Jars are worthless. Vials and Jars will either have spells for them or get a defensive bonus. Scrolls without a spell are worthless. Hopefully, you did a "dummy scam" at the beginning by creating characters over and over until you stuffed the Inn with Brigantine and your characters have Heavy Crossbows for the spare weapon slots. If not, you get a 2 gold per character award for cleaning up the town. Eventually, you'll find something worth enchanting. The enchanter is in the northeast corner of the inner wall. Don't forget to listen to the old man's stories(he's at the park) and to pay attention to anything said while your party eliminates morale loss at the tavern. Early on, morale loss of 15-25 is as high as I would go. Later on, especially for night fights, morale loss can get up to 50. Morale loss affects how well you do for all skills. It becomes fatigue in Eternal Dagger.
     
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  25. Saxon1974 Prophet

    Saxon1974
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    Thanks Dave. So if I evaluate a scroll, Vial, jar or key and it does tell tell me there is anything specific about it its useless junk right? I have yet to find any of them with anything special.

    Dang it I think I might have screwed my game. I went outside north of town and it became night and I had already saved and now I can't rest nor get back into town. Without resting at an inn how long will it stay night? I have fought like 4 or 5 and have no karma left to heal and can't find a place to rest. One of my characters was poisoned and I didn't realize it and I/saved. So at this point my wizards crown adventure might be over.
     
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