World of Whorecraft: Battle for Asseroth

[rashiakas]

Nothing I would disagree with. I'm just not buying that all specs were feasible in any way.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Again, feasible is not the same as optimal. Onyxia was killed with 15 druids at one point if I remember correctly. A guild racing for a world first will absolutely optimize their raid composition as much as possible - but you don't need a 100% perfect min/maxing to actually clear T1/2 raid content. I don't understand where this persistent myth comes from, that every raid needs to min/max like crazy to be able to progress.

Non-raid content

Stopped reading there

Raiding isn't the end-all, be-all of WoW. Plenty of people were happy doing PvP, RP, 5/10/20 mans, leveling alts and just treating WoW as a social environment.

A holy priest can (and did) spec into shadow weaving and be into the warlock group. No reason to DPS. You CAN take a DPS shadow priest, but why bother? They do ~70% (hybrid tax) of a similar geared pure dps caster.

And if you already have enough holy priests? The game did not exist in a vacuum. People did not just reroll a new 60 on the drop of a hat. My old guild had plenty of priests, so we had 1 shadow priest doing "good enough" dps while keeping shadow weaving up - and in an emergency she could throw her healing set on and help out.

Ele shamans can do about ~70% (hybrid tax) of a pure dps spec and doesn't bring anything that a resto shaman can't bring. Nobody is going to innervate an ele shaman. Only viable spec is resto. Paladin tanks 1) have mana issues that causes threat generation problems, 2) have no taunt, which isn't used on bosses, 3) have no tanking set in any raid, only non-problematic spec is holy. Ret can pull half-decent dps in Naxx, but nobody is going to gear a ret paladin, better to take someone else.

I already pointed 1) and 2) out about pally tanks, not sure why you keep bringing that up. As for 3) - well, this list is from a private server but it is correct and proves you wrong:
http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=13492

With that set, a prot pally can max out def rating, meaning he can tank any non-raid boss enemy with ease. There are plenty of tankadin guides made by players along the years, which prove the feasibility of pally tanks. And the same goes for bears. Warriors are of course the supreme tanks, no-one is disputing that.

Another thing that seems largely forgotten by now is that Blizzard actually ran out of time when developing WoW. It wasn't a finished product by any means and they didn't have time to go over itemization after changes between alpha and beta/launch. For example, humans used to have a racial ability that utilized spirit - hence the reason why there are so many items with spirit in them despite that only being usable to priests (and maybe a little to druids). Priests were originally supposed to be monk-likes, hence why you get cloth gear with agility and strength in them. Silithus was largely empty at launch, there were no Auction Houses except in IF and Org, and there were plans for introducing Ulduan and the Emerald Dream into the vanilla game.

 

[Metro]

Again, last few months of Vanilla was not the whole Vanilla experience.

 

[Zed]

I remember the guild flying to Grom gol (sp, that place north of booty bay) via Orgrimmar zeppelin for a last-minute buff before hitting naxx on opening day or some shit like that and ending up in fucking Stonetalon mountains (still on the zeppelin) followed by countless disconnects. Vanilla WoW was cool.

 

[Lacrymas]

I already pointed 1) and 2) out about pally tanks, not sure why you keep bringing that up. As for 3) - well, this list is from a private server but it is correct and proves you wrong:
http://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=13492

With that set, a prot pally can max out def rating, meaning he can tank any non-raid boss enemy with ease. There are plenty of tankadin guides made by players along the years, which prove the feasibility of pally tanks. And the same goes for bears. Warriors are of course the supreme tanks, no-one is disputing that.

Nobody is going to give that gear to paladin tanks, that's the problem. Warriors are better in every conceivable way and loot was scarce, so nobody is going to give that precious gear over to the second-rate, *very* compromise-ridden tanks on progression content. That's Naxx gear! Almost nobody managed to even kill the first boss in Naxx, let alone have the gear to spare to give to the paladin tanks.

And if you already have enough holy priests? The game did not exist in a vacuum. People did not just reroll a new 60 on the drop of a hat. My old guild had plenty of priests, so we had 1 shadow priest doing "good enough" dps while keeping shadow weaving up - and in an emergency she could throw her healing set on and help out.

If you have enough holy priests then one of them specs Shadow Weaving, you don't go to get another priest for that.

Like Metro said, the last 2 months of vanilla isn't vanilla. Whatever degenerate specs people tried then doesn't constitute any serious attempt at raid spots.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Remember Joana/Madcow guides to leveling up? He went to Tanaris only at level 44 for example, despite the fact that the majority of quests there are good for 40 level, and this is where the game naturally leads you after Thousand Needles. If you do those quests at level 40, you're basically fucked. It's a trap. Joana saved Tanaris for later and scratched for exp elsewhere.

Some of those guides were written in TBC. I think Joana's was. In any case, they recommended grinding at certain level ranges because it was faster than finding a group for dungeons or doing the quest that required extensive travelling.

Again, last few months of Vanilla was not the whole Vanilla experience.

And? The flavor-of-the-month class changed during vanilla, as each class talents were overhauled. But hardly anyone decided to switch main characters because of that, since it took time and dedication to get to 60 and then get geared if you wanted to raid.

Nobody is going to give that gear to paladin tanks, that's the problem. Warriors are better in every conceivable way and loot was scarce, so nobody is going to give that precious gear over to the second-rate, *very* compromise-ridden tanks on progression content. That's Naxx gear! Almost nobody managed to even kill the first boss in Naxx, let alone have the gear to spare to give to the paladin tanks.

As if guilds didn't have plenty enough time to farm MC and BWL to get sick of them before AQ opened. Not to mention that you didn't even look at the list since it lists items tankadins can get BEFORE they start raiding, which provide them with sufficient stats to tank UBRS/ZG/MC.

If you have enough holy priests then one of them specs Shadow Weaving, you don't go to get another priest for that.

I don't know whether I've suddenly lost the ability to communicate through text or if you're being intentionally thick but let's try one more time:
Your guild has ten priests. One wants to spec Shadow so they can PvP on the side or what-fucking-ever. The guild can easily allow that, because that spriest will do good enough damage in raids while increasing total dps output of guild warlocks.
Once the debuff limit was increased to 16, this became quite feasible. Leading a successful raiding guild required social skills. You had to be able to keep 40+ people happy to keep raiding week after week.

 

[Lacrymas]

As if guilds didn't have plenty enough time to farm MC and BWL to get sick of them before AQ opened. Not to mention that you didn't even look at the list since it lists items tankadins can get BEFORE they start raiding, which provide them with sufficient stats to tank UBRS/ZG/MC.

I was looking at the BiS list.

I don't know whether I've suddenly lost the ability to communicate through text or if you're being intentionally thick but let's try one more time:
Your guild has ten priests. One wants to spec Shadow so they can PvP on the side or what-fucking-ever. The guild can easily allow that, because that spriest will do good enough damage in raids while increasing total dps output of guild warlocks.
Once the debuff limit was increased to 16, this became quite feasible. Leading a successful raiding guild required social skills. You had to be able to keep 40+ people happy to keep raiding week after week.

Nobody (who was progressing and was serious about it) did that. You can come up with whatever hypothetical scenarios you wish, but it simply didn't happen.

 

[GarfunkeL]

I'm glad you know literally every guild that raided. I guess I was imagining things and my guild did not have a shadowpriest in 2005.

As for the gear, that is a bullshit cop-out excuse. We've already moved from the initial "impossible" to "won't get the gear to do it" phase.

 

[Lacrymas]

It still is impossible, a tank pally can never tank a raid boss. You brought up the gear thing.

 

[Orobis]

Vanilla and BC WoW had a feeling of adventure to it. You had to communicate, you had to group up at times and it took time to travel the world which actually made it feel huge. This is what made it special

OMFG somebody who actually gets it! Really wish i could brofist.

The mere fact that you mention paladins and bears among tanks in vanilla is enough to dismiss all your other reasoning.

No you are wrong. Pallys and bears were very capable OFF-tanks for trash, just not good for main-tanks due to reasons that Garfunkle mentioned.

Rets and warlocks were perfectly feasible as long as the players didn't suck a fucking dick. Fire mages and spriests were a bit of a different thing, but iirc eventually spriests got in on the action too.

Can't comment on ret cause never raided as alliance but having 1 spriest (and only 1) amounted to a net increase in total raid damage output mainly because of the locks obviously. Someone actually did the math for it more than 10 years ago but i can't remember where i read it. Locks where right up there in DPS but, by the time AQ40 was released, properly played and specced fire mages started to catch up again, fire mage DPS was huge when tallied up collectively, i.e. Rolling Ignites. Though still never enough to out dps a well itemized and competently played Rogue that knew the proper skill rotation, and most didn't .

Reading through these last 4 pages on this thread, there is a lot of fucking sheer ignorance about how WoW was back in the day. You're not gonna learn fuck all about vanilla WoW from watching some fag on a twitch stream or youtube channel or even if you played on a Private server. I played on a private server for almost 6 months (Fenix) and i can tell you it was nothing like Vanilla Retail, it just wasn't the same for a number of reasons that i don't think i need to explain.

If you did actually play Vanilla WoW retail and you still had a shit time for w/e reason, my conclusion to this after all these years is you played on a garbage low pop server.

Here is a little taste of PVP from the server i played on, Shadowmoon US.

Spoiler

If you never found any of this to be fun than i am sorry but you are not human, though i can understand if you didn't like to raid cause i hated it as well. Garfunkle seems to be the only person here who is not talking out of his ass and was actually there.

 

[GarfunkeL]

It still is impossible, a tank pally can never tank a raid boss. You brought up the gear thing.

You're a moron. The only raid bosses a paladin cannot tank at all are those which require constant tank-swapping via taunt. Everything else is possible, though obviously more difficult than having a druid or warrior tank it.

 

[Lyric Suite]

More difficult = no chance of anyone ever letting you do it.

In vanilla, warriors were the tanks, end of story. Paladins were good in five mans and were the bane of PvP as the unkillable healer.

 

[GarfunkeL]

And yet people did all kinds of stupid shit because they were bored and wanted to see if its possible. Hell, I remember there being a Night Elf only RP-raiding community on one of the EU RP servers that cleared Molten Core without mages, paladins or warlocks.

 

[shihonage]

PvP in WoW has always been retarded for one simple reason. The game uses TCP/IP protocol, which is not suitable for competitive realtime combat.

 

[Caim]

And yet people did all kinds of stupid shit because they were bored and wanted to see if its possible. Hell, I remember there being a Night Elf only RP-raiding community on one of the EU RP servers that cleared Molten Core without mages, paladins or warlocks.

I saw someone having an idea for a similar group: an all-Gnome guild called AllTheGnomo.

 

[Lyric Suite]

PvP in WoW has always been retarded for one simple reason. The game uses TCP/IP protocol, which is not suitable for competitive realtime combat.

Wow isn't Quake thought. World PvP was more about the mayhem than anything. Ludicrous ganking and true warzone mentality, with lot's of PTSD to go around. Battlegrounds were also kinda messy. It wasn't perfect but it was good enough to be fun.

 

[shihonage]

PvP in WoW has always been retarded for one simple reason. The game uses TCP/IP protocol, which is not suitable for competitive realtime combat.

Wow isn't Quake thought. World PvP was more about the mayhem than anything. Ludicrous ganking and true warzone mentality, with lot's of PTSD to go around. Battlegrounds were also kinda messy. It wasn't perfect but it was good enough to be fun.

Run WoW on two computers in the same house. Bring the two characters together, on a server with average ping, which is something like 100ms, and just play PvE while glancing at the others' screen. You'll be shocked.

 

[Orobis]

It wasn't perfect but it was good enough to be fun.

At the end of the day, that's all that really matters.

 

[Metro]

And yet people did all kinds of stupid shit because they were bored and wanted to see if its possible.

Thanks for proving the point? It was done for laughs when bosses were on farm.

 

[Roqua]

Who gives a shit about this game since it was turned into a children's game after WotLK? This site should really ban all coverage and discussion of kids games like this and minecraft and Diablo 3 and the Freddy game and Roblox and games of similar ilk my tiny little baby children like. Isn't this supposed to be an adult of rpgs for serious rpg fans?

 

[GarfunkeL]

And yet people did all kinds of stupid shit because they were bored and wanted to see if its possible.

Thanks for proving the point? It was done for laughs when bosses were on farm.

The point was and still is that it is feasible, ie possible. I never claimed that it was the optimal method.

 

[Rivmusique]

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

shit vid

Oy lads I'm a british gamer bloke lads and today we're going to discuss raiding in the epic game world of warcraft but first be sure to watch the advertisement at the beginning of the video because I'm a fat British intellectual gamer and I make my living discussing inanities with children and my IQ is over 300 because I'm British. Today we will discuss raiding in the video game world of warcraft and ever since the Nostalrius shut down I've been receiving well though out comments from 12 year olds regarding the current state of raiding in WoW and I'd just like to take the opportunity to sell more advertisements to retard kids by spewing shit for 30 minutes but you'll eat it up because I'm A British Gamer with a British Accent and if you don't like it you can watch the ad and shove right off you bloke

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

shit vid

Oy lads I'm a british gamer bloke lads and today we're going to discuss raiding in the epic game world of warcraft but first be sure to watch the advertisement at the beginning of the video because I'm a fat British intellectual gamer and I make my living discussing inanities with children and my IQ is over 300 because I'm British. Today we will discuss raiding in the video game world of warcraft and ever since the Nostalrius shut down I've been receiving well though out comments from 12 year olds regarding the current state of raiding in WoW and I'd just like to take the opportunity to sell more advertisements to retard kids by spewing shit for 30 minutes but you'll eat it up because I'm A British Gamer with a British Accent and if you don't like it you can watch the ad and shove right off you bloke

My favorite Telly series is Dr. Who because every season it's a cherished tradition of who's going to be the next british doctor? They always have a fine, witty British accent just like me and are intellectually superior because of their good old bloody British wit. Dr. Who is popular all around the globe and I like to watch lectures from renowned British spokesman on the Oxford debates so I can masturbate my huge intellect. I am British and proud and you bloody americans are so envious of my accent because I sound like harry potter and all the ladies love him but they don't talk to me but I pretend that some day a fine beautiful american woman will over look my fat fucking face in favor of my beautiful British tongue. She and I will watch bloody Dr. Who every season and we will blog on the internet to sell advertisements to you dipshit fucking americans

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

shit vid

Oy lads I'm a british gamer bloke lads and today we're going to discuss raiding in the epic game world of warcraft but first be sure to watch the advertisement at the beginning of the video because I'm a fat British intellectual gamer and I make my living discussing inanities with children and my IQ is over 300 because I'm British. Today we will discuss raiding in the video game world of warcraft and ever since the Nostalrius shut down I've been receiving well though out comments from 12 year olds regarding the current state of raiding in WoW and I'd just like to take the opportunity to sell more advertisements to retard kids by spewing shit for 30 minutes but you'll eat it up because I'm A British Gamer with a British Accent and if you don't like it you can watch the ad and shove right off you bloke

My favorite Telly series is Dr. Who because every season it's a cherished tradition of who's going to be the next british doctor? They always have a fine, witty British accent just like me and are intellectually superior because of their good old bloody British wit. Dr. Who is popular all around the globe and I like to watch lectures from renowned British spokesman on the Oxford debates so I can masturbate my huge intellect. I am British and proud and you bloody americans are so envious of my accent because I sound like harry potter and all the ladies love him but they don't talk to me but I pretend that some day a fine beautiful american woman will over look my fat fucking face in favor of my beautiful British tongue. She and I will watch bloody Dr. Who every season and we will blog on the internet to sell advertisements to you dipshit fucking americans

Us brits have a monopoly on gaming advertisement and if you want to bloody make it anywhere you'd better be born a red-blooded brit or adopt a nice fine British accent or ye be walking the plank matey. Other sophisticated YouTube brits include the Total Biscuits, the Lazy Peon, The Peanut Butter Gamer, The Flippy Flounder Gaming Network, Bellular's Gaming, and oh bloody hell my british puppy has gone and taken a shit right on my carpet that bloke! I need to clean that up but I'll be back next video please subscribe and be sure to watch the advertisements you blokes.