Decline Worst playable fantasy race?

[ga♥]

Lawntoilet

Races of Faerûn for 3E

That is totally consistent with what I said, for any tiefling descended from a male devil/outsider.
I will amend my statement that some tieflings are descendants of someone who peed in a succubus' butt.

Wrong, what you said would make a cambion/alu-fiend... not a tiefling.

A tiefling is like someone who has 5% of demon/devil ancestry.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm honestly surprised that elves didn't even win. Never knew people hated gnomes this much.

I think I've played a gnome once in my entire life. A Thief/Cleric in Baldur's Gate. Maybe twice, in NWN1 I had a Bard/RDD/WM using a scimitar as a two-handed weapon due to small stature, but I don't remember if it was a halfling or gnome, prob halfling. I don't hate gnomes, I just don't see much use for them outside of Illusionist/Fighter dual-classes in AD&D. Elves are the worst because they are the epitome of snowflake syndrome. I also hate 99% of the furry races (except rats), I dislike tieflings, aasimar, and genasi for much the same snowflake reason. Beginning as a special snowflake goes against everything I think an RPG should be.

 

[Theodora]

Good to see Drow isn't even an option, such is their worth.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Lawntoilet

Races of Faerûn for 3E

That is totally consistent with what I said, for any tiefling descended from a male devil/outsider.
I will amend my statement that some tieflings are descendants of someone who peed in a succubus' butt.

Wrong, what you said would make a cambion/alu-fiend... not a tiefling.

A tiefling is like someone who has 5% of demon/devil ancestry.

Yes it would. A cambion or alu-fiend is half-fiend half-mortal so the parents of the cambion/alu would be the progenitors of the line that will eventually produce tieflings after being diluted with enough mortal blood.
That is, the parents of the cambion/alu would be the ones who undertook the aforementioned activities.

 

[Humanophage]

I think speedy knife rogue females make sense enough to suspend disbelief, but I've always hated females in heavy armor or bastard sword type roles. You can pull it off with a lot of effort, I usually cite the chick in Game of Thrones as a decent example, but you need a beast of a woman to do it. Most RPGs put these pretty little things in heavy armor and call them tanks and it irritates the fuck out of me. This isn't just a mainstream Dragon Age thing either, as Codex incline game extraordinaire Pathfinder Kingmaker did the same thing.

I noticed that women like being the tanks and dislike being melee DPS, interestingly. This is confirmed by some flimsy quantitative evidence from MMOs. Maybe it is more prosocial and less aggressive to be a tank.

If you consider culture, women do often have a protective tanky image, especially because of Athena. Not to mention that people pray to Mary for protection. A tanky cleric seems like a pretty feminine role. The woman in Pathfinder is obviously modelled on Joan of Arc appearance-wise.

 

[Rat King]

I'm honestly surprised that elves didn't even win. Never knew people hated gnomes this much.

I think I've played a gnome once in my entire life. A Thief/Cleric in Baldur's Gate. Maybe twice, in NWN1 I had a Bard/RDD/WM using a scimitar as a two-handed weapon due to small stature, but I don't remember if it was a halfling or gnome, prob halfling. I don't hate gnomes, I just don't see much use for them outside of Illusionist/Fighter dual-classes in AD&D. Elves are the worst because they are the epitome of snowflake syndrome. I also hate 99% of the furry races (except rats), I dislike tieflings, aasimar, and genasi for much the same snowflake reason. Beginning as a special snowflake goes against everything I think an RPG should be.

Bro, words can not express how much I agree with you, especially the not hating rats part.

The main reason why I believe people hate gnomes so much is because gnomes have one major issue. The issue with gnomes, I believe, is the issue that dwarves have as well. They're pretty much always steroetypes, and if they aren't they're usually fairly forgettable. Gnomes are always wacky and eccentric and usually inventors as well, dwarves are always scottish, drunk and pretty rude. I think people like gnomes less is because they look to much like halflings and they're not as likeable as the dwarf, also they're ugly tiny jews so there's that. But al least gnomes have actual fucking flaws unlike those shitty, faggot elves. They don't sleep, they live forever, they're way wiser than the rest of the races and they're described as incredibly beatiful. Pretty much the perfect pick for anyone looking to make an obnoxious ass Mary Sue.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I think speedy knife rogue females make sense enough to suspend disbelief, but I've always hated females in heavy armor or bastard sword type roles. You can pull it off with a lot of effort, I usually cite the chick in Game of Thrones as a decent example, but you need a beast of a woman to do it. Most RPGs put these pretty little things in heavy armor and call them tanks and it irritates the fuck out of me. This isn't just a mainstream Dragon Age thing either, as Codex incline game extraordinaire Pathfinder Kingmaker did the same thing.

I noticed that women like being the tanks and dislike being melee DPS, interestingly. This is confirmed by some flimsy quantitative evidence from MMOs. Maybe it is more prosocial and less aggressive to be a tank.

If you consider culture, women do often have a protective tanky image, especially because of Athena. Not to mention that people pray to Mary for protection. A tanky cleric seems like a pretty feminine role. The woman in Pathfinder is obviously modelled on Joan of Arc appearance-wise.

In the pool you posted the tank was the second least popular option for female gamers, losing by 3 votes. If anything the pool shows that women like non-melee roles and dislike all the melee roles.

 

[DalekFlay]

World building should be internally consistent and believable but let's be honest, RPGs & fantasy have also always been wish fulfillment and make-believe and I have no trouble whatsoever to suspend my disbelief for female warriors. I find it a bit strange that of all the things these games usually pull, it should be the female warriors of all things that break peoples immersion because muh realism. Going by that logic, you could strike whimpy elves from your list of playable characters as well and while you are at it, strike the tiny dwarves or at least give them spears instead of axes (tho that probably wouldn't help much).

This is why I used the term "suspension of disbelief" above. I'm not looking for realism in a fantasy world really, nor am I one of the weirdos on here who get angsty whenever a female character does anything significant in an RPG. However things like 5'3" skinny chicks in heavy plate armor wielding a two-handed maul just go a little too far into absurd territory to take seriously. Hell, even with a male character I tend to dislike it when they're scrawny dudes. No matter how fantasy or "sci-fi" you are, the world logic can be pushed too far to where it feels like parody. Sounds like you enjoy that from your comments on your current Dragon Age character, and that's fine, but I'm not into it. I don't name my characters "FART" or whatever either. Just not my style, I'm too much of an immersionfag, to use Codex parlance.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Humanophage]

In the pool you posted the tank was the second least popular option for female gamers, losing by 3 votes. If anything the pool shows that women like non-melee roles and dislike all the melee roles.

In relative terms, everybody dislikes being a tank and everyone likes being a ranged DPS. Tank is the least popular role for men, but not for women. The ratios are 1:4 for tanks, 1:2.6 for healers, 1:6 for melee DPS, and 1:2.6 for ranged DPS.

Also Dalek was comparing them to the speedy knife rogue, which is melee DPS.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

he world logic can be pushed too far to where it feels like parody. Sounds like you enjoy that from your comments on your current Dragon Age character,

Yes and no, my comments on that specifically were perhaps a bit misleading. I have no issue to take a female hero in an RPG seriously in general.

In that specific instance, it just turned a bit of a parody on accident, as my character started out as mage but then became arcane warrior or whatever (its years ago). What I find so funny is that the Bioware writing is so full of this inane egostroking where everybody goes on and on about what a great hero and leader of man you are and my character being essential a teenage elf girl revealed that to be even more of a farce that it already is. With Femshep its a little different cause shes an adult and its more believable with the guns and the futuristic equipment (even though that kind of writing is still inane).

Either way, I understand your point and I know that you are not an edgelord, its just that I find the 'female warrior trope' to be such a minor thing to be bothered by it or having any influence on the verisimilitude of the game world.

 

[Funposter]

Ni- umm, Redguard.

 

[Scarlet Lilith]

I will amend my statement that some tieflings are descendants of someone who peed in a succubus' butt.

Methinks you need a lesson about the birds and the bees.

Good to see Drow isn't even an option, such is their worth.

Don't they fall under "Black Human"?

Elves are usually more interesting when they're reclusive mystical assholes you don't know much about, so I'd put them as worst playable race even if not the worst race.

Isn't that true for all playable races though?

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

In relative terms, everybody dislikes being a tank and everyone likes being a ranged DPS. Tank is the least popular role for men, but not for women.

Tanks are more popular among men , men's choices are just more even-split. I've separated the voters between men and women and calcualted the percentages myself. 17% of women play as tanks compared to 21% of men. In addition not a lot of women took part in the pool so if just 2 people switched the votes from Tank to Melee DPS they would be the least popular role for women. They are almost identical. Tanks are absolutely not something women like to play as.

Look at this this way. If you group the classes as protectors (healer, tank) and destroyers (DPS) then there will be roughly equal number of women on both sides. But if you split into melee and ranged then you will have roughly 33% of women taking melee classes and 67% taking ranged classes. For men you will get roughly 50/50 split no matter how you cut it, with the biggest difference between DPS (55%) and the rest (46%)

 

[oldmanpaco]

Mexicans are just the worst.

Also anyone who doesn't like gnomes has not read Alfie. Anyway the proper RPG party consists of one human PC and a harem of elf, half-elf, and gnomish concubines as followers.

 

[Theodora]

I noticed that women like being the tanks and dislike being melee DPS, interestingly. This is confirmed by some flimsy quantitative evidence from MMOs. Maybe it is more prosocial and less aggressive to be a tank.

If you consider culture, women do often have a protective tanky image, especially because of Athena. Not to mention that people pray to Mary for protection. A tanky cleric seems like a pretty feminine role. The woman in Pathfinder is obviously modelled on Joan of Arc appearance-wise.

I'd say it's less about aggression and more about being conditioned towards supporting roles, less 'need' to be the hotshot damage dealer. Same thing more than visible in MOBAS.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I noticed that women like being the tanks and dislike being melee DPS, interestingly. This is confirmed by some flimsy quantitative evidence from MMOs. Maybe it is more prosocial and less aggressive to be a tank.

If you consider culture, women do often have a protective tanky image, especially because of Athena. Not to mention that people pray to Mary for protection. A tanky cleric seems like a pretty feminine role. The woman in Pathfinder is obviously modelled on Joan of Arc appearance-wise.

I'd say it's less about aggression and more about being conditioned towards supporting roles, less 'need' to be the hotshot damage dealer. Same thing more than visible in MOBAS.

Ranged DPS is the most popular choice for women in that pool. They want to deal damage, they just don't want to get punched in the face.

 

[Darkwind]

However things like 5'3" skinny chicks in heavy plate armor wielding a two-handed maul just go a little too far into absurd territory to take seriously.

This is in the same game where niggas be throwin' fireballs out of their hands, right? Just want to be sure we are on the same page re: 'suspension of disbelief'

Also in the poll why was Orc misspelled as 'black human'?

 

[Rat King]

However things like 5'3" skinny chicks in heavy plate armor wielding a two-handed maul just go a little too far into absurd territory to take seriously.

This is in the same game where niggas be throwin' fireballs out of their hands, right? Just want to be sure we are on the same page re: 'suspension of disbelief'

Wizards having spells is an established thing in the universe, thus it makes sense. Tiny women in heavy armor is not an established rule of the universe, thus it doesn't make sense.

Also in the poll why was Orc misspelled as 'black human'?

I am sorry I am illiterate and didn't know how to spell 'orc'

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Isn't that true for all playable races though?

Yeah, I'm just being a knife ear supremacist and considering elves to be above chilling at the tavern with people with 1/10 of their lifespan.

Also anyone who doesn't like gnomes has not read Alfie.

The only Alfie I can think of is for halfling fans.

 

[Humanophage]

Tanks are more popular among men , men's choices are just more even-split. I've separated the voters between men and women and calcualted the percentages myself. 17% of women play as tanks compared to 21% of men. In addition not a lot of women took part in the pool so if just 2 people switched the votes from Tank to Melee DPS they would be the least popular role for women. They are almost identical. Tanks are absolutely not something women like to play as.

Look at this this way. If you group the classes as protectors (healer, tank) and destroyers (DPS) then there will be roughly equal number of women on both sides. But if you split into melee and ranged then you will have roughly 33% of women taking melee classes and 67% taking ranged classes. For men you will get roughly 50/50 split no matter how you cut it, with the biggest difference between DPS (55%) and the rest (46%).

The melee-ranged difference is driven by female aversion to melee DPS. 17% and 21% is a significantly smaller difference than 15% and 26% for melee DPS. Besides, the salient feature of healers isn't that they are ranged, but that they heal, which is something women prefer to do relative to men.

Unfortunately, the people who generally approach this systematically are typically the dumber sociologists and psychologists from bad universities (who else would get a PhD to study games from this perspective). This means that they don't count women any more and focus instead on the whole masculinity/femininity/gender fluidity thing. Posting a simple table summarising the data coherently is apparently too hard for them. It's dreary to sift through this so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Reality]

I used to hate Gnomes but then I played Majesty --

https://youtu.be/CMgeL3TPIWg

I think their major weakness is not having a consesus on what the mainstream version of a gnome is - It's always a toss up between 2 main ideas and a couple minor ones.
A: Gemstone Cutters that are forced to be Illusion/Mage etc (1st E D&D) and
B: The all in inventor/technology gnome (Arcanum and Warcraft)

I mean there are subtypes of course, but most of them are pretty small deviations A: Alchemist instead of Illusionist and B: Arcanum etc adding class struggle stuff to the steampunk gnome or a couple Gunner types in addition to the actual mechanists and inventors.

I think both A and B type gnomes have problems - A type are the closest to being "budget" dwarves thematically.. And B: while it stands out more, has the problems of full Orcs player charathers - it's an ok race concept but it is much more suited to be NPC/enemy only than a player race.

A type gnomes have grown on me because some games give them the best portraits for wizards Bearded Wizard with Pipe(and Illusion is one of the more self suffiecent CRPG specialist schools, especially in level restricted games where Blur/Mirror Image - take up a chunky proportion of the playthrough instead of only the earlygame , or in games where you need crowd control, since blindness and prismic ray type spells, almost as an unwritten rule, have far less enemies immune to them than any other Crowd Control status effects. (Bradley Wizardly, Black Isle games, Original Sins, countless others) -

I think the reason Half-Orcs are pushed at all is because of the idea that if you had a full Orc player chararather it should be attacked on sight in any city in any baseline setting. I think that it's a good idea at the rulebook level, but actually playing them is like- if you really want players that are "bigoted against" but only enough that they are still playable (only really worrying about extremeist and NPCs who personally had family members killed instead of actually everyone in world) you are probably better off just making a specific incident or human modeled culture conflict. Half-Orcs player charathers turn into the same gameplay as Human/

TLDR - Half Orcs shouldn't REALLY be playable, they should just used be as an example to prevent players from playing Full Orcs or other monsters so the setting can remain cohesive and firmly about adventuring.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Why would you even play human in high fantasy.

"Oh shit we can't do shit actually compared to other races but because we fuck like rabbit we control the world" is the most stupid thing in fantasy setting.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Methinks you need a lesson about the birds and the bees.

Birds rub their cloacas together and bees pupate, don't see what that has to do with Tieflings.

Mexicans are just the worst.

Also anyone who doesn't like gnomes has not read Alfie. Anyway the proper RPG party consists of one human PC and a harem of elf, half-elf, and gnomish concubines as followers.

Alfie and Vera are halflings, not gnomes.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Also anyone who doesn't like gnomes has not read Alfie.

The only Alfie I can think of is for halfling fans.

Mexicans are just the worst.

Also anyone who doesn't like gnomes has not read Alfie. Anyway the proper RPG party consists of one human PC and a harem of elf, half-elf, and gnomish concubines as followers.

Alfie and Vera are halflings, not gnomes.

They look more gnomish than halflingish.