Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Xenich's War for Rules and Realism in D&D

Xenich

Cipher
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
2,104
To be fair, a glance at RPG.net could lead one to think that anything related to tabletop is all SJW, all the time. Amber Scott herself came from that demographic. Roleplaying gaming is interesting in that both those sorts of people and stereotypical Codexian reactionaries seem to gravitate towards it.

Well, I don't know about RPG at large but I know I left my year+ roll20 group because they started putting in "safe spaces" and "shit you can't talk about" or "ways you cannot roleplay". I mean, at one point I had a "talk about racism and homophobia" with the GM because my widowed human character refused to join in on the elven orgy after a scenario. I'm not kidding.

It has been many years since I was gaming in PnP, I remember the early days of the Gygax (AD&D) vs Arneson (D&D) battles which were basically the STEM majors of the day vs Liberal Arts type majors. It was a constant battle of the story goers wanting to disregard rules and systems to chase some LARPing style of play which carried the hints of what we know today to be the SJW PC crowd BS. I had thought that much of this was solved when Whitewolf and more story focused systems came about where these people ran off to so they could have their complete freedom to ignore logic and reality in their play acting style of play, but apparently every element of PnP has been infected by these idiots?

It is as I have always said. These people aren't gamers, they are intellectual void nitwits who emotionalize their play which is why they throw tantrums when anyone brings up specifics on rules, statistics, and practical conformity to world physics and play. Watching this sort of destruction over the decades really lowers ones respect for people.
 

mutonizer

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
1,041
It is as I have always said. These people aren't gamers, they are intellectual void nitwits who emotionalize their play which is why they throw tantrums when anyone brings up specifics on rules, statistics, and practical conformity to world physics and play. Watching this sort of destruction over the decades really lowers ones respect for people.
Usually I spot these when they cannot understand that your roleplay is a consequence of the dice, not the other way around. Hate these fucks going on for hours in the "diplomatic" thinking they're so intelligent talkers only to critical fail the roll afterwards...

Yeah, we would throw people out of games who wanted to start that shit. It really is a sign of a pathetic and mentally troubled person.
In most group (included the one I described), it was just handled like: "my character does this", "k done".
Nobody gave a fuck about the "act" itself, apart from wether it happened or not, story wise. Bit like in a cRPG (before all the cutscene bullshit) where you just clicked "kiss xxx" and then it faded to black and it was next day.

That's my point once again, it was NOT about sex or the orgy, it was about refusing elves (and how the whole orgy was presented). Hence the "warning "talk about racism and homophobia. That's really key.
 

Xenich

Cipher
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
2,104
It is as I have always said. These people aren't gamers, they are intellectual void nitwits who emotionalize their play which is why they throw tantrums when anyone brings up specifics on rules, statistics, and practical conformity to world physics and play. Watching this sort of destruction over the decades really lowers ones respect for people.
Usually I spot these when they cannot understand that your roleplay is a consequence of the dice, not the other way around. Hate these fucks going on for hours in the "diplomatic" thinking they're so intelligent talkers only to critical fail the roll afterwards...

Yeah, we would throw people out of games who wanted to start that shit. It really is a sign of a pathetic and mentally troubled person.
In most group (included the one I described), it was just handled like: "my character does this", "k done".
Nobody gave a fuck about the "act" itself, apart from wether it happened or not, story wise. Bit like in a cRPG (before all the cutscene bullshit) where you just clicked "kiss xxx" and then it faded to black and it was next day.

That's my point once again, it was NOT about sex or the orgy, it was about refusing elves (and how the whole orgy was presented). Hence the "warning "talk about racism and homophobia. That's really key.

Well, I guess I am just from a different era or at least those who I hung around weren't interested in such, even from a 3rd person mention. What we had to be careful in avoiding in our play sessions was a 3 hours argument over terminal velocity and its effect on a supernatural being in magical plate armor. We were all on the far side of the Gygax position, more board game focused than role playing.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,824
It was a constant battle of the story goers wanting to disregard rules and systems to chase some LARPing style of play which carried the hints of what we know today to be the SJW PC crowd BS.
Rules are there to give the game a structure and make it coherent, not to take over.

I had thought that much of this was solved when Whitewolf and more story focused systems came about where these people ran off to so they could have their complete freedom to ignore logic and reality in their play acting style of play, but apparently every element of PnP has been infected by these idiots?
Logic and reality in D&D? :lol:

It is as I have always said. These people aren't gamers, they are intellectual void nitwits who emotionalize their play which is why they throw tantrums when anyone brings up specifics on rules, statistics, and practical conformity to world physics and play. Watching this sort of destruction over the decades really lowers ones respect for people.
I dont think youve ever played PnP. also destruction? what the fuck, 3.5 was huge and it was all number based and it still is big enough that people play PF.
 

mutonizer

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
1,041
Well, I guess I am just from a different era or at least those who I hung around weren't interested in such, even from a 3rd person mention. What we had to be careful in avoiding in our play sessions was a 3 hours argument over terminal velocity and its effect on a supernatural being in magical plate armor. We were all on the far side of the Gygax position, more board game focused than role playing.

Heh, that's cool too.

Sadly, I've been stuck in the middle since the late 80s. I'm an avid character-player and a GURPs addict simulationist.
 

Mustawd

Guest
Me: "Yes, my character participates in the orgy. He has a great time"
*rolls dice*

DM: "Your character has contracted syphilis and two different strains of herpes"
Me: "Sigh..."
 

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,871,734
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Me: "Yes, my character participates in the orgy. He has a great time"
*rolls dice*

DM: "Your character has contracted syphilis and two different strains of herpes"
Me: "Sigh..."

See now that's where Amber Scott's cleric would have come in handy. Xe could have advised you about safe sex.

(Or just cast cure disease on you)
 

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,849
Logic and reality in D&D? :lol:

"It has dragons, therefor it is not logical" is such a shit argument, i get angry every time i hear it. ADND has a very logical setting. An altered, transformed form of logic, but nontheless inherent logical. Its one of the most important aspects of a fantasy setting that the rules which define that logic do not contradict themselves or break.
 

mutonizer

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
1,041
Me: "Yes, my character participates in the orgy. He has a great time"
*rolls dice*

DM: "Your character has contracted syphilis and two different strains of herpes"
Me: "Sigh..."

DM: "While the others are getting undressed and preparing for the night in the main room, the Elven queen turns to you, her mate at her side, and whispers with a smile: Why don't you join us tonight human, your companions seem to be well taken care of"
Me: "I usually prefer my whores human, and expensive. Thank you, your majesty. <stands up, bows, and leaves>"
 

Xenich

Cipher
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
2,104
It was a constant battle of the story goers wanting to disregard rules and systems to chase some LARPing style of play which carried the hints of what we know today to be the SJW PC crowd BS.
Rules are there to give the game a structure and make it coherent, not to take over.

Rules first, story second. Remember, as I said.. I was hard right of camp Gygax who believed rules were very important, but there should be balance. Camp Arneson believed rules were a formality, not important, that it was the story and play that were key.
our games were statistically focused, about the details and interactions of character development and the restrictions that drove them.

I had thought that much of this was solved when Whitewolf and more story focused systems came about where these people ran off to so they could have their complete freedom to ignore logic and reality in their play acting style of play, but apparently every element of PnP has been infected by these idiots?
Logic and reality in D&D? :lol:

Ever crack open an AD&D Dungeon masters guide (first edition) and look up the details on various realism physics? The more you talk, the more I think you might be bit too young to understand what I am talking about. When the White wolf games came out, they were strongly focused on story. The entire purpose of play was that of politics, and player to player interactions. It is why the game was a favorite for LARPing. I used to see numerous people out in the parks dressed up as vampires play acting the game with the only details of systems being a "roh sham bo" game to decide conflicts.



It is as I have always said. These people aren't gamers, they are intellectual void nitwits who emotionalize their play which is why they throw tantrums when anyone brings up specifics on rules, statistics, and practical conformity to world physics and play. Watching this sort of destruction over the decades really lowers ones respect for people.
I dont think youve ever played PnP. also destruction? what the fuck, 3.5 was huge and it was all number based and it still is big enough that people play PF.

I was playing Chainmail back in the day kid, somehow I think your youthful arrogance and ignorance of this topic is getting in your way of understanding what I am talking about. Call it a generational conflict, but the problem with 3.5 was that even though it added "more" to the table in terms of rules features, it dismissed restrictions which are a strong component in choice and consequence play of a game. Opening up all of the classes to any direction and selection I think diminished game play, it didn't expand it.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,824
"It has dragons, therefor it is not logical" is such a shit argument, i get angry every time i hear it. ADND has a very logical setting. An altered, transformed form of logic, but nontheless inherent logical. Its one of the most important aspects of a fantasy setting that the rules which define that logic do not contradict themselves or break.
Rules also allow you to jump 30 feet if you have enough ranks, or to pick locks as a free action, this is what happens when rules and numbers take over. Also D&D has no "setting", its a fucking system. The settings designed for it arent all that logical, its mostly contrivances, but at the very least they are coherent. Go ahead and tell me FR is a logical place, or ravenloft, or greyhawk.
Sure, rules are there to emulate reality, but there are plenty of compromises, and its very far from realistic, starting from HP and going all the way up to the higher abstrations concepts of the system.
 
Last edited:

Immortal

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
5,062
Location
Safe Space - Don't Bulli
Ever crack open an AD&D Dungeon masters guide (first edition) and look up the details on various realism physics?

Common man... I hate to SA it - but there isn't much I can add..

http://www.somethingawful.com/dungeons-and-dragons/wtf-monster-manual/1/

Some of this shit is truly cringe.

sealion1.gif
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
Sealioning, very relevant. Never forget the duckbunny:

pic359789.jpg


fucking spider-horse lol
 

Xenich

Cipher
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
2,104
Ever crack open an AD&D Dungeon masters guide (first edition) and look up the details on various realism physics?

Common man... I hate to SA it - but there isn't much I can add..

http://www.somethingawful.com/dungeons-and-dragons/wtf-monster-manual/1/

Some of this shit is truly cringe.

sealion1.gif

I said dungeon masters guide. I was talking about things like terminal velocity and other detailed mechanics on physics and reality to which are brought to the game. Now if someone didn't DM or wasn't heavily interested in AD&D, it is possible they never saw this stuff as it is for the DMs eyes for the most part, but it does establish the point I made.

As for the Monsters Manual, they got silly because they tried to apply quantity over quality (one of the reasons TSR folded by the way was their over loading the market with so much material in such a short amount of time that they were competing with themselves).
 

Immortal

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
5,062
Location
Safe Space - Don't Bulli
I said dungeon masters guide. I was talking about things like terminal velocity and other detailed mechanics on physics and reality to which are brought to the game. Now if someone didn't DM or wasn't heavily interested in AD&D, it is possible they never saw this stuff as it is for the DMs eyes for the most part, but it does establish the point I made.

As for the Monsters Manual, they got silly because they tried to apply quantity over quality (one of the reasons TSR folded by the way was their over loading the market with so much material in such a short amount of time that they were competing with themselves).

Hmm so the rotational axis of Faerun is.. Roll for weather patterns.. and gravitational pull of the tides from selunes ass.. and.. OH WAIT.. We are under attack by a pack of Horse Spiders!!!

:nocountryforshitposters:


3621762946_e6e7379aa3.jpg
 

Prime Junta

Guest
I said dungeon masters guide. I was talking about things like terminal velocity and other detailed mechanics on physics and reality to which are brought to the game. Now if someone didn't DM or wasn't heavily interested in AD&D, it is possible they never saw this stuff as it is for the DMs eyes for the most part, but it does establish the point I made.

Captain_Haddock_Meme.jpg


I take it by terminal velocity you're referring to the rules about falling.

Which, it's worth pointing out, would allow a rhinoceros to survive a drop of 30 meters, but not a mouse, because damage from falling doesn't take into account mass. Yay for realism.
 

Xenich

Cipher
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
2,104
"It has dragons, therefor it is not logical" is such a shit argument, i get angry every time i hear it. ADND has a very logical setting. An altered, transformed form of logic, but nontheless inherent logical. Its one of the most important aspects of a fantasy setting that the rules which define that logic do not contradict themselves or break.
Rules also allow you to jump 30 feet if you have enough ranks, or to pick locks as a free action, this is what happens when rules and numbers take over. Also D&D has no "setting", its a fucking system. The settings designed for it arent all that logical, its mostly contrivances, but at the very least they are coherent. Go ahead and tell me FR is a logical place, or or ravenloft, or greyhawk.
Sure, rules are there to emulate reality, but there are plenty of compromises, and its very far from realistic, starting from HP and going all the way up to the higher abstrations concepts of the system.

Again, the more you talk about this, the more you act like you never GM'd an AD&D game or cracked open an old DM guide. The players hand guides do not go into these details. In fact, they really aren't supposed to know that stuff, it is for the DM to rule on the physics and interactions within the world.

This is what bothers me about you folks. You mock us for our arguments of physics and realism within the fantasy world and as I said, you people are responsible for sucking all the intellect out of games in order to cater to "but I want it!" emotional players who love sitting around role playing jerking off with each other. You don't get it, because you are for all honest and intent purposes... a poser.
 

mutonizer

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
1,041
We are under attack by a pack of Horse Spiders

Not defending "horse spiders" but you're really discussing these from unnamed fantasy settings? I mean what's your brain limit? Dragon? Cockatrice? Demons? At which point too much is too much here?
 

Immortal

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
5,062
Location
Safe Space - Don't Bulli
We are under attack by a pack of Horse Spiders

Not defending "horse spiders" but you're really discussing these from unnamed fantasy settings? I mean what's your brain limit? Dragon? Cockatrice? Demons? :)

The point is.. discussing physics and terminal velocity of a world setting is pretty pointless once you concede fucking horse spiders are flying around nayying at you and shooting webs out their ass.
Do I really have to explain this?
 

Xenich

Cipher
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
2,104
I said dungeon masters guide. I was talking about things like terminal velocity and other detailed mechanics on physics and reality to which are brought to the game. Now if someone didn't DM or wasn't heavily interested in AD&D, it is possible they never saw this stuff as it is for the DMs eyes for the most part, but it does establish the point I made.

Captain_Haddock_Meme.jpg


I take it by terminal velocity you're referring to the rules about falling.

Which, it's worth pointing out, would allow a rhinoceros to survive a drop of 30 meters, but not a mouse, because damage from falling doesn't take into account mass. Yay for realism.

You only make my point.

Not a gamer, just some poser who loves to play dress up and LARP sex with their homosexual buddies. Good job!
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Not a gamer, just some poser who loves to play dress up and LARP sex with their homosexual buddies. Good job!

Why would I need to LARP sex with my homosexual buddies? They're sluts man.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom