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Younger generations and retro gaming.

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She's 18, she more or less started playing the past year Genshin Impact and Valorant, she mostly watches anime and read manga.
She's just a casual. People who have been playing games for years forget it but instinctively having an idea of what to do when you get stuck or an idea of what the controls probably do is something you pick up with time.
 

Catacombs

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My little sister asked me if i could get Kingdom Hearts for her because she has been interested in the series for some time (i think that her interest comes from the "fan art" of Riku and Sora) so i got the game for her. She couldn't figure out how to get past the screen after choosing the shield, sword and staff.
What platform?
 

Morenatsu.

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You all talk about handholding but mainstream was always like that. SNES JRPGs were as simplistic as it gets. In NES, Megadrive arcades screen moved slowly from left to right and you with it, while pushin a couple of buttons, polishing your lower brain functions. There werent many games on consoles, which required drive for discovery or initiative or some thought.
PC games is another story. But PC game design mostly died around 2004, with all the online bullshit and blend in with consoles.
arcade games are as hard as your classic PC RPGs so i'm not sure this is an appropriate comparison

She's 18, she more or less started playing the past year Genshin Impact and Valorant, she mostly watches anime and read manga.
She's just a casual. People who have been playing games for years forget it but instinctively having an idea of what to do when you get stuck or an idea of what the controls probably do is something you pick up with time.
I remember I used to not even be able to leave the first room in some of the first games I played. But I was also two years old and couldn't (or wouldn't) read.
 
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markec

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In that case I dont think she is retarded only programmed into a certain behavior that can be neutralized by giving her other type of games to play. Like some adventures that will force her to be creative and inquisitive

The issue is at a certain point these faculties aren’t just terribly atrophied and requiring extensive therapy to develop even to a basic degree but have never developed in the first place. There is no therapy for that.

If the person is young they can still quickly learn those skills, as long one has the patience and determination.

At least I hope so.
 

Hobo Elf

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Have you seen similar things? How was your experience making someone younger play something like Morrowing where you have to read to figure stuff or free exploration with next to no instruction to progress the game?

Yeah, with myself. Sometimes in AAA games you'll get a task or mission that doesn't have a quest marker. It's always such a big curveball after playing a game that is otherwise completely controlled. This kind of dumbing down of the mind is something that you are conditioned into, but it's not permanent.
 

El Presidente

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Younger generations and retro gaming.
Ugh, this topic... hurts, man. Watching kids trying to play old stuff almost physically hurts. Both my nephews are unable to finish SMB1's 1-1 without dying at least 5-10 times. They aren't able to figure out by themselves you can run by pressing B. They aren't able to catch a single mushroom, or the star. They'd never discover by themselves you can go in the fourth pipe. And of course, 1-2 is an unbeatable wall that halts their progress. They aren't able to reach the end of the level but I'd bet they could put 100 hours into the game and they wouldn't discover the warp zone behind the ending pipe.

And that's just one game. Others are just as disastrous, if not more. Their progress in NES' Kirby's Adventure is pitiful, and that's one of, if not THE easiest NES platformer, though I'll admit some of the later bosses in that game used to kick my own ass when I was a kid. But world 1 was always a breeze. Not for them, it's a massacre. In a game with 6 hit points that gives you unlimited fly.

Onto the SNES, same experience. DKC1's first stage, not beatable without at least 2 Game Overs. Second stage (the raining one with the ropes)? Impossibly high wall, they can't reach the checkpoint barrel.

Etc etc. It's an experience as fascinating to watch as it is depressing and bizarre. They're just not wired with the skill to do it.
 
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Butter

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I assume that zoomers unironically refer to Skyrim as retro gaming by this point.

Zoomers grew up with the 6th and 7th gen
I don't know what that means. When I was sixteen, I would've considered 10-year-old games to be retro, but that's because game design was constantly changing in those years; games from the mid 90s are nothing like games from the mid 00s. But there's essentially no difference between AAA games of 2011 and AAA games of 2021. It makes as much sense to call Skyrim retro as it does to call Cyberpunk 2077 retro.
 
Unwanted

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It really depends on the level of shift in the way given type of game was played. If you play some of the modern 2d platformers and then jump to a mid-life-NES game of this type you will find something perfectly familiar to you, similarly the jump from IWD to PoE or Diablo 2 to the other PoE is 100% intuitive. Meanwhile try to go from playing the 1st reboot trilogy of Tomb Raider(Legend, Anniversary, Underworld) and the first game in the series. At one side everything is so similar(Anniversary and 1 for obvious reasons are similar down to level design)*, but there changes in how you control a character in 3d environment mean that adapting to it is harder.

*I've brought up these particular trio specifically because the newer games have changed some fundamentals about what were they trying to do
 

Blutwurstritter

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Younger generations and retro gaming.
Ugh, this topic... hurts, man. Watching kids trying to play old stuff almost physically hurts. Both my nephews are unable to finish SMB1's 1-1 without dying at least 5-10 times. They aren't able to figure out by themselves you can run by pressing B. They aren't able to catch a single mushroom, or the star. They'd never discover by themselves you can go in the fourth pipe. And of course, 1-2 is an unbeatable wall that halts their progress. They aren't able to reach the end of the level but I'd bet they could put 100 hours into the game and they wouldn't discover the warp zone behind the ending pipe.

And that's just one game. Others are just as disastrous, if not more. Their progress in NES' Kirby's Adventure is pitiful, and that's one of, if not THE easiest NES platformer, though I'll admit some of the later bosses in that game used to kick my own ass when I was a kid. But world 1 was always a breeze. Not for them, it's a massacre. In a game with 6 hit points that gives you unlimited fly.

Onto the SNES, same experience. DKC1's first stage, not beatable without at least 2 Game Overs. Second stage (the raining one with the ropes)? Impossibly high wall, they can't reach the checkpoint barrel.

Etc etc. It's an experience as fascinating to watch as it is depressing and bizarre. They're just not wired with the skill to do it.

I am pretty sure the feeling is reciprocal when younger people watch me handling my mobile telephone. Those little f*ckers do everything at least 3 times as faster than me ... And those goddamn touch screen moves

:x
 

Gerrard

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...is that guy's name "Coomer"?

:what:
 
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There is a compelling argument brought forth that some people just do not have that mentality ingrained because they just weren't born with it. We often take for granted that despite the fact that video games are now popular with the masses doesn't mean they are meant for that hobby. Even with how garbage game design have gotten throughout the years, they still struggle to get through games, remember that video games originally were designed by people with a bit more intelligence than others, the same goes for the people that played them. One session of D&D, a game that's all about creativity will let you know how much these people lack agency and imagination.
 

AN4RCHID

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Are AAAA games these days any dumber than the shit that was coming out 10 - 15 years ago? At least you have some indie gems nowadays that treat the player like a non-retarded person. I'm afraid my generation, the millennials, are the nadir of the gamer race.
 

Lemming42

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^ That thought had crossed my mind too. A lot of AAA stuff nowadays is surely tougher, and often more mechanically complex, than the console-oriented ultra-streamlined dogshit of the late 2000s dark age.

After thinking about this topic since this thread appeared, I think a lot of it is down to older games expecting users to read the manual to learn what to do, whereas new games will almost always have button prompts and tutorial popups to teach players the game. A lot of newer games also have quest compasses or other ways to find where to go - Dishonored and Thief often display similar level design, but (in addition to the obvious gameplay differences) they end up being massively different experiences because Dishonored literally puts a floating arrow in the player's retina at all times that details exactly where to go.

Newer games often seem to have an attitude of "the player will get pissed and bored if they get lost here, so let's make sure they always know where to go" while older games have an attitude of "players will love getting lost here for an hour because they paid a stack of money for this game and want to get their moneys' worth in playtime". Either that or "let's make this part absolute bullshit so that people have to buy our strategy guide", which doesn't seem to be a thing anymore, thank fuck.
 

Norfleet

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Newer games often seem to have an attitude of "the player will get pissed and bored if they get lost here, so let's make sure they always know where to go" while older games have an attitude of "players will love getting lost here for an hour because they paid a stack of money for this game and want to get their moneys' worth in playtime". Either that or "let's make this part absolute bullshit so that people have to buy our strategy guide", which doesn't seem to be a thing anymore, thank fuck.
Mostly because strategery guides were dogshit that got replaced by fandomwikkas.
 

Norfleet

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My little sister asked me if i could get Kingdom Hearts for her because she has been interested in the series for some time (i think that her interest comes from the "fan art" of Riku and Sora) so i got the game for her. She couldn't figure out how to get past the screen after choosing the shield, sword and staff.
It's your own fault for "getting it for her". You're dumbing down the very process of playing a game in the first place. Don't "get it for her". Make her get it her OWN damn self. Get a kid a game, entertain them for a day. Teach a kid to sail, entertain them for a lifetime. I don't "get my kids games". I just cultivate a love of the sea.
 

Narushima

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It's your own fault for "getting it for her". You're dumbing down the very process of playing a game in the first place.
Yeah, and giving the game to your sister is too easy. You have to make your own child first, and then teach them!
 

Morenatsu.

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^ That thought had crossed my mind too. A lot of AAA stuff nowadays is surely tougher, and often more mechanically complex, than the console-oriented ultra-streamlined dogshit of the late 2000s dark age.

After thinking about this topic since this thread appeared, I think a lot of it is down to older games expecting users to read the manual to learn what to do, whereas new games will almost always have button prompts and tutorial popups to teach players the game. A lot of newer games also have quest compasses or other ways to find where to go - Dishonored and Thief often display similar level design, but (in addition to the obvious gameplay differences) they end up being massively different experiences because Dishonored literally puts a floating arrow in the player's retina at all times that details exactly where to go.

Newer games often seem to have an attitude of "the player will get pissed and bored if they get lost here, so let's make sure they always know where to go" while older games have an attitude of "players will love getting lost here for an hour because they paid a stack of money for this game and want to get their moneys' worth in playtime". Either that or "let's make this part absolute bullshit so that people have to buy our strategy guide", which doesn't seem to be a thing anymore, thank fuck.
I never read manuals!
 

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