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Your opinion on pixel-art graphics?

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by sigard, Oct 6, 2021.

?

pixel art is:

Poll closed Nov 3, 2021.
  1. 10

    30.2%
  2. 9

    5.2%
  3. 8

    11.5%
  4. 7

    8.3%
  5. 6

    5.2%
  6. 5

    6.3%
  7. 4

    7.3%
  8. 3

    5.2%
  9. 2

    3.1%
  10. 1

    17.7%
  1. Licorice Arcane Wumao

    Licorice
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    It's a difference between PC graphics cards adhering to the VGA standard and other graphics output standards. It's not a difference between PC monitor and TV displays.

    What double scanning amounts to in image processing terms is just nearest neighbor doubling vertically. That paired with the fact that most PC monitors had horizontal resolutions 800+ means horizontally you get sharp borders between pixels too.

    I concede that VGA games were made with chunky pixels in mind (still not squares like on an LCD tho).

    So from the point of view of reproducing what the game artists saw, your set up is fine for VGA games. From the point of view of reproducing an image in the mathematical sense, VGA itself is bad and you should use a hardware line halver. From the point of view of subjective preference, it's up to you, of course.
     
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  2. Grauken Arcane Patron

    Grauken
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    That's about how many people? 1 Licorice
     
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  3. newtmonkey Arcane

    newtmonkey
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    Here are some shots I took a while back:


    Extreme zoom-in on a console game (Mega Drive) on a Sony PVM (SCART RGB)
    [​IMG]

    Winning screen of a DOS game running on actual hardware connected to a CRT monitor
    [​IMG]


    BONUS

    FC plugged into a consumer TV (composite cables)
    [​IMG]

    [EDIT: Replaced with full res images]
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
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  4. Licorice Arcane Wumao

    Licorice
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    Interesting. I thought PVMs were aperture grille (trintron) and not slot masks.
     
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  5. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    Judging CRT look by photos is silly to begin with (and using shaders/filters to replicate what you see of CRT imagery on photos is plain retarded). The matrix of a camera processes those tiny glowing lamps very differently than our eyes do. I've been glued to CRT monitor hooked to PC for over a decade, and I don't remember any scanlines, interlacing or dots. Nor extremely convex display surfaces; by 90s CRT monitors aspired to be as flatscreen as possible.
     
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  6. newtmonkey Arcane

    newtmonkey
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    It might depend on the model/size? This photo is from a while back, but I remember taking it specifically because I finally got an RGB SCART cable for my MD and was blown away by the difference between composite and RGB for that system.
     
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  7. Licorice Arcane Wumao

    Licorice
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    Nice. I have a love hate relationship with composite. Especially with the MD. There's no denying artists created many effects with composite in mind. On the other hand, NTSC composite colors are horrible compared to RGB. PAL S-Video is a happy middle when it is an option (too many games are poorly PAL optimized, even downright broken). Another happy middle is low TVL displays (almost perfect blending on simple alternating dot dithers) with RGB.
     
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  8. newtmonkey Arcane

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    Agree 100%, even a lot of FC games look completely different (and more detailed) in composite (sunsoft games in particular).

    I personally wouldn't use composite for MD/SFC and later systems (though I acknowledge that the art for many MD games—particularly non-Japanese games—was drawn with composite in mind), but for FC/PCE I feel that composite video is essential. A nice comb/notch filter cleans up NTSC composite video very nicely.
     
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  9. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
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    Pixel art is crap.
    I didn't see this option in the poll.
     
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  10. Grauken Arcane Patron

    Grauken
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    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Machocruz Arcane

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    That's me when I first got into emulation. I couldn't understand why Alien versus Predator (arcade) didn't look as smooth and complete as screenshots. Just on a whim I applied scan lines and it helped to smooth the image out, but at the same time it dulled the colors too much and the lines were too strong, so it still didn't look right.

    Of course the small size of screenshots made it look sharper, smother, and brighter than the actual game could ever be on standard screen sizes at the time.

    Still, I find some of the CRT filters on RetroArch to be useful. They restore blends and gradients, smooth the contours, mellow the colors without going too far into greyness, and I find the slight grain pleasing, like oil paint on a medium textured canvas.
     
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  12. Raghar Arcane

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    Arcade was designed for making profits on shit monitors. Basically something like a casino game. I'm actually glad piracy replaced these. At least children are spending money for something nice.
    Proper comparison would be game designed to be used on PC monitors, or decent high end screens. But, before PC fans who made freeware, and wide availability of cracked games, most games were made for profit tailored to end device, and were designed with all limitations of games designed to generate profit. Thus the typical end result was "if that would sell it would be enough".
     
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  13. Viata Arcane

    Viata
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    I take it you never played Darius on an arcade machine:
    [​IMG]
    Yes, this baby had 3 monitors. Children will never be able to experience this since they are too busy playing among us.
     
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  14. Grauken Arcane Patron

    Grauken
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    Arcade machines are interesting for this topic, as each one had a unique setup in terms of display, with the later having no scanlines once they started to use LCDs
     
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  15. Unreal Liturgist

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    Gee, I don't know buddy, if that's the only way it was ever displayed, maybe, just maybe, it's actually correct? My monitor won't even display 320x200, the timings are too low. Isn't that interesting.

    yeah, very cool, it's just too bad the game sucks trolololo
     
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  16. Viata Arcane

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    :shitandpiss:
     
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  17. Unreal Liturgist

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    it's slow and button-mashy and relies too much on power-ups while not at least being actually fun like Gradius. game sux
     
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  18. tritosine2k Augur

    tritosine2k
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    Absence of high quality sprites is the defining* characteristic of "pixel art".

    Because former allows scaling, while latter is such "clever" arrangement it breaks immediately once it's not clinging to the screen surface.

    This also means games using former also made effort to convey visual depth, and latter is STILL neglecting.

    *aside from embraced as grifter currency "NFT", lol
     
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  19. Viata Arcane

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    Mate, the first thing you do in Gradius is use the speed power up.
     
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  20. Unreal Liturgist

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    I said that Gradius was fun despite that, not that it didn't also over-rely on power-ups. lrn2read
     
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  21. Licorice Arcane Wumao

    Licorice
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    Gradius power ups aren't really power ups. It's more like a very clever shop system (think vending machine) or character building system that doesn't interrupt the action.

    Have you played Gradius Gaiden? The game has a bar edit feature and one thing I've seen people do is pick the force field that provides full invincibility (even to terrain) but lasts only a few seconds, put it in slot 1 and then just invincibility hop their way from item to item.
     
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  22. Licorice Arcane Wumao

    Licorice
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    Is that your photo? I put a couple of credits in this one at Hey! in Akihabara in 2019 when I was last in Tokyo for a family matter.
     
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  23. Viata Arcane

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    Not that I remember. I played mostly 1 and 3, 1 because the arcade place in front of my parent's house had it(and Darius 1) and 3 because I had the snes game.
     
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  24. Unreal Liturgist

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    It's effectively the same in terms of actual gameplay. Go pick up to the thing so you can shoot better, then die and lose them all so you can die again.
     
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  25. Viata Arcane

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    Nope, from google. Mom lost our old pictures(which had me playing those games on arcade) when we moved out. :negative:
     
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