Diablo with Hellfire vs Diablo 2 with LOD

[Tyranicon]

Diablo I beats its sequel in just about everything.

But Diablo 2 has necromancer and introduced me to the love of classes where you don't have to do shit. A true left click to win the game class.

 

[Namutree]

Diablo 1, no hellfire.

What's wrong with Hellfire? from what i know it allowed you to walk faster in towns (which was a great qol),, added two optional dungeons(they're good but nothing amazing, great music though), new class, quests and a bunch of items. You can change difficulty from the start.

I can not see a reason to ever go back to vanilla unless i missing something out that 'ruined' the vanilla experience.

There are balancing differences, for one. Diablo himself will have higher stats compared to vanilla. The game's balance is reworked with the assumption you will explore the new dungeon, and the new dungeon is ass.
So you're either stuck playing a shitty dungeon, or you're willfully putting yourself at a disadvantage.

D1 Vanilla > D1 Hellfire.
Also D1 >>> D2

 

[Namutree]

Diablo 2 is not that bad, with all the different classes and builds and whatnot, but the one thing where they really messed up is the ever respawning enemies whenever you reload your game. Really, what were they thinking?? And, maybe even more baffling, nearly noone (neither here nor anywhere else on the net) seems to be bothered about this "feature". Then again, it has been really long since i last played D2 so not sure if i mix up something
Basically, just because of this, D1 is better

I have in fact complained about this on this site, citing it as one of the reasons D1 is underrated.
The change makes complete sense when you consider that D1 is supposed to be an RPG/Roguelike hybrid, while D2 is just an ARPG.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

There are balancing differences, for one. Diablo himself will have higher stats compared to vanilla. The game's balance is reworked with the assumption you will explore the new dungeon, and the new dungeon is ass.
So you're either stuck playing a shitty dungeon, or you're willfully putting yourself at a disadvantage.

If they didn't people would complain that the final boss or game is too easy if you do the new content and that would be a lot worse. So i prefer them to make it harder, makes sense.

new dungeon is ass

It's all opinion of course and i respect. I don't have any nostalgia for Diablo 1, i played it for the first time in 2016, first without Hellfire, then with it in 2018, so i don't have attachment for the original experience, the only difference i could notice with Hellfire are the new class, dungeons and walking faster in town(huge qol for me).

For the new dungeons, I like them, the Hive has weird alien vibe, but the good kinda of weird vibe imo. The Crypt had those ranged liches, i found it to be pretty hard dungeon, maybe harder than hell, i had to play more carefully(playing as a warrior).

The music in both was geat though, this i remember:

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Artyoan]

1. Which is why I would also steer the future of Diablo away from isometric arpg combat to something either first or third person. Diablo was always about the atmosphere to me. Can still keep the loot. Get better combat as well. But focus on the tone and atmosphere. And yes I know that would get some serious hate but I'd do it anyway.

 

[octavius]

D2 had iconic skills like lightning fury, corpse explosion, blizzard. The first two are among the most satisfying skills to use in any ARPG.

Being at the receiving end of Nithilak's Corpse Explosions was more scary than facing Duriel. The only boss fight I avoided on higher difficulties.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Levels of D1.
Classes of D2.

Generally D1 was a much tighter and more atmospheric game. It wins hands down. But I wouldn't mind the classes of D2 in the game of D1.

So.... THEHELL?

God... my pure D1 days then Hellfire. The mods the mods the mods. Played the fuck out of that. Back then it was Diablo or Doom. Vanilla, add-on or MODS!

Don't go down that hell hole. DON'T DO IT!!! D2 won't save you. It gets worse. Then I did the same with EUO.

I'm fucking doomed...

https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Diablo_I_version_history

https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.01_(Hellfire)

https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Diablo_II_version_history

https://www.moddb.com/games/diablo/mods

https://www.purediablo.com/gameinfo/diablo-downloads#Diablo_1_Files

Where the fuck are all the old old old mods?

Ag nvm it was hellfire for thedark
https://www.moddb.com/games/diablo-hellfire/addons/hellfire-the-dark-v54

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Hmmm d2
https://www.nexusmods.com/diablo2resurrected/mods/

https://www.moddb.com/games/diablo-2/mods

https://www.moddb.com/games/diablo-2-lod/mods

Och! Stay away!

 

[janior]

diablo 1 def better for one and done playthrough
diablo 2 had an amazing itemization though and more variety with playstyles

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Diablo remade tactical movement like original. Solo/party based TBT like xcom? Party up to 4, 6, 8, more?

 

[Dadd]

Diablo remade tactical movement like original. Solo/party based TBT like xcom? Party up to 4, 6, 8, more?

Are you saying this exists, or you want this to happen? Sounds good.

 

[Radiane]

Diablo 2 is not that bad, with all the different classes and builds and whatnot, but the one thing where they really messed up is the ever respawning enemies whenever you reload your game. Really, what were they thinking?? And, maybe even more baffling, nearly noone (neither here nor anywhere else on the net) seems to be bothered about this "feature". Then again, it has been really long since i last played D2 so not sure if i mix up something
Basically, just because of this, D1 is better

I have in fact complained about this on this site, citing it as one of the reasons D1 is underrated.
The change makes complete sense when you consider that D1 is supposed to be an RPG/Roguelike hybrid, while D2 is just an ARPG.

I don't know where this weird distinction of genres between D1 and D2 originated from, but it should be crystal clear that both games are of exactly the very same genre.

 

[anvi]

Is Hellfire bad?

 

[SerratedBiz]

Diablo 2 is not that bad, with all the different classes and builds and whatnot, but the one thing where they really messed up is the ever respawning enemies whenever you reload your game. Really, what were they thinking?? And, maybe even more baffling, nearly noone (neither here nor anywhere else on the net) seems to be bothered about this "feature". Then again, it has been really long since i last played D2 so not sure if i mix up something
Basically, just because of this, D1 is better

D2 singleplayer doesn't reload areas or respawn enemies between Save & Quits, IIRC. Or I think it didn't, back in the day. Or maybe it is a function of the PlugY tool.

However, B.Net D1 also refreshed the seed whenever you started a new game.

 

[somerandomdude]

Is Hellfire bad?

No. I honestly don't understand the hate for Hellfire, all they did was add additional classes and content, and they didn't dumb the game down in any way. The gog version of Diablo 1 allows you to play Hellfire or the original, you be the judge.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Is Hellfire bad?

No, hating Hellfire is elitism.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Well, they try to bring in that alien Cthulhu vibe in but kind of fail. The gay cow quest (replaces farmer which isn't great), teddy is dumb, mobs partially broken, missing quests again, and of course a lot of stuff was leftovers from the original game stuck on the cutting room floor).

 

[Incendax]

D2 singleplayer doesn't reload areas or respawn enemies between Save & Quits, IIRC. Or I think it didn't, back in the day. Or maybe it is a function of the PlugY tool.

However, B.Net D1 also refreshed the seed whenever you started a new game.

Right at launch D2 singleplayer respawned trash mobs (including trash bosses), but the named bosses (including Act bosses) stayed dead.

 

[Lafrontier]

Diablo 2 is not that bad, with all the different classes and builds and whatnot, but the one thing where they really messed up is the ever respawning enemies whenever you reload your game. Really, what were they thinking?? And, maybe even more baffling, nearly noone (neither here nor anywhere else on the net) seems to be bothered about this "feature". Then again, it has been really long since i last played D2 so not sure if i mix up something
Basically, just because of this, D1 is better

I have in fact complained about this on this site, citing it as one of the reasons D1 is underrated.
The change makes complete sense when you consider that D1 is supposed to be an RPG/Roguelike hybrid, while D2 is just an ARPG.

I don't know where this weird distinction of genres between D1 and D2 originated from, but it should be crystal clear that both games are of exactly the very same genre.

Both of you are right in a sense.

A lot of Diablo 1 was inspired by roguelikes, rogue and nethack iirc. Diablo 1 was also intended to be turn based and have permadeath. Technically Diablo can retroactively be called a rogue-lite, roguelike-like or whatever not rogue term you come up with. A lot of people have called Diablo a roguelike over the years and more than a bit of that stems to the lack of another term for highlighting how it had "roguelike inspired" mechanics.

From the perspective of when Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 were released - ARPG/Roguelike hybrid sounds about right, (RPG/Roguelike hybrid is technically redundant since Roguelike is literally a subgenre of RPG.) Meanwhile Diablo 2 just straight up inherited ARPG classification.

It might seem unimportant but it really is important from a development standpoint.

From a consumer perspective though? All that matters is: No roguelikes? Well no huge list of games. Said list includes games like Diablo, Dwarf Fortress, Rimworld, Minecraft and Terraria.

Another way to look at it is if we had opted to call traditional roguelikes first gen roguelikes and then drew a family tree, Diablo 1 would be a second gen and Diablo 2 would be third gen.

 

[bloodlover]

I like to play Diablo 2 and experience Diablo 1 of that makes sense.

Imo, the first game has a much better atmosphere and design but playing it, especially as a melee character can be frustrating. D2 lost some of the charm that the first game had and in many ways it's a different game altogether but it has more of everything and in this context, that is a good thing.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Diablo 2 is not that bad, with all the different classes and builds and whatnot, but the one thing where they really messed up is the ever respawning enemies whenever you reload your game. Really, what were they thinking?? And, maybe even more baffling, nearly noone (neither here nor anywhere else on the net) seems to be bothered about this "feature". Then again, it has been really long since i last played D2 so not sure if i mix up something
Basically, just because of this, D1 is better

I have in fact complained about this on this site, citing it as one of the reasons D1 is underrated.
The change makes complete sense when you consider that D1 is supposed to be an RPG/Roguelike hybrid, while D2 is just an ARPG.

I don't know where this weird distinction of genres between D1 and D2 originated from, but it should be crystal clear that both games are of exactly the very same genre.

Both of you are right in a sense.

A lot of Diablo 1 was inspired by roguelikes, rogue and nethack iirc. Diablo 1 was also intended to be turn based and have permadeath. Technically Diablo can retroactively be called a rogue-lite, roguelike-like or whatever not rogue term you come up with. A lot of people have called Diablo a roguelike over the years and more than a bit of that stems to the lack of another term for highlighting how it had "roguelike inspired" mechanics.

From the perspective of when Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 were released - ARPG/Roguelike hybrid sounds about right, (RPG/Roguelike hybrid is technically redundant since Roguelike is literally a subgenre of RPG.) Meanwhile Diablo 2 just straight up inherited ARPG classification.

It might seem unimportant but it really is important from a development standpoint.

From a consumer perspective though? All that matters is: No roguelikes? Well no huge list of games. Said list includes games like Diablo, Dwarf Fortress, Rimworld, Minecraft and Terraria.

Another way to look at it is if we had opted to call traditional roguelikes first gen roguelikes and then drew a family tree, Diablo 1 would be a second gen and Diablo 2 would be third gen.

They where both called Hack & Slash games when they were new. Diablo 1 also got called a dungeon crawler when it was new, but by the time of Diablo 2 it seemed most people had just settled on Hack & Slash. Rogue would get mentioned with both of them too because of the randomization, but it was never seen as Roguelike like those Mystery Dungeon games coming out of Japan every year around the same time. It was more like: This is a Hack & Slash with randomly generated levels.

I don’t really get the first persons thing about Diablo 1 being a roguelike, but not bringing that up with regard to Diablo 2 given randomized level layouts is part of both games. Hell, Blizzard made more of the randomly generated maps during the run up to Diablo 2 coming out than they did with Diablo; and because it was part of Diablo it was something people were expecting in 2 anyways.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Is Hellfire bad?

No. I honestly don't understand the hate for Hellfire, all they did was add additional classes and content, and they didn't dumb the game down in any way. The gog version of Diablo 1 allows you to play Hellfire or the original, you be the judge.

This. I don't see much reason to play D1 without Hellfire, even if it's just for some of the QoL stuff. The faster run speed in Tristram, bigger gold stacks (with the Auric Amulet) and the spell that highlights items on the ground in dungeons are all great changes/additions Don't like the new dungeons? It's optional. There will be new Oil items that you can use to improve your weapons in various ways and Runes which are basically traps. Fairly easy to ignore, but I think Oils help the Warrior and Rogue be just a little bit more competitive with the Sorcerer, though ultimately the Warrior suffers the most due to mobility issues that are difficult to overcome through sheer statistical supremacy. The biggest change in Hellfire that you could contest if it's for better or for worse is the Sorcerer starting with a really good Staff now that lets him rip through enemies with spells right from the get go, which shifts the balance from him being a late game bloomer to being more potent right away. Personally I'm also a fan of the dungeons. The Hive especially has a pretty cool soundtrack.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Diablo 2 is the better game of the two. At least as far as the gameplay goes, what they’re doing with the classes and loot, it’s the better game. But Diablo 1 is a cooler setting, it’s a cooler setting with better monsters and the melodic Tristram track creates a since of atmosphere that’s unmatched by anything Diablo 2 does.

The original games setting and atmosphere is so simple and yet so perfect I’m a little surprised they’ve never fully committed to going back to what Diablo 1 does. One town with a dungeon (that either goes up or down) that the player explores. I wonder if that canned Diablo game they were doing that was inspired by Dark Souls would’ve went back to something more like the original Diablo? The way FromSoftware does stages in Dark Souls makes me think it would’ve been a return to one giant dungeon in a town like Diablo was.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I like to play Diablo 2 and experience Diablo 1 of that makes sense.

Imo, the first game has a much better atmosphere and design but playing it, especially as a melee character can be frustrating. D2 lost some of the charm that the first game had and in many ways it's a different game altogether but it has more of everything and in this context, that is a good thing.

Well, if upu like D1 but enjoy the d2 gameplay there is https://mod.diablo.noktis.pl/multiplayer

 

[janior]

tactical movement

standing in a doorway is the extent of "tactics" in diablo