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Eternity Josh Sawyer wants to make Pillars of Eternity 3, but only if...

Quillon

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Dec 15, 2016
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5,243
We all know they'll learn the entirely wrong lessons from BG3

Doesn't matter what they learn, studio is tied to Awoken and The Outer Turds for the foreseeble future they can't even attempt anything else. Even making the next fallout coulda been a real possibility if this wasn't the case.
 

luj1

You're all shills
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Anything after KotOR 2 is Obsidians "B team" or worse

hence the actual Obsidian has technically been dead for almost 20 years
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Once Avowed releases and becomes a success with the hoi polloi the interest in the world of Eora will skyrocket. Phil will give Josh near unlimited budget to make the ultimate CRPG.

Maybe that will finally give him enough confidence to find a wife and sire heirs and we'll all live happily ever after as he makes games for his sons like Tolkien wrote for his.

70-90s nerd culture... Good worldbuilding

I think I've found your problem.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth


443
 

Butter

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This is the equivalent of Todd telling us how much he was inspired by Traveller, before shitting out something that bears no resemblance to the older, superior game. Does Josh know how to make a game in the style of PoR or CotAB? Pillars of Eternity says he does not. Even The White March couldn't commit to a low stakes adventure.
 

Heinrich

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I don't think Larian would have any problems with licensing out their engine, but I also don't think it would be all that useful for studios that can't use their production strategy of infinite iteration nor have their resources.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Maybe making a game that he would have loved himself will finally cure the contempt for other human beings that sours all his games.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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"Bard's Tale/TotU was my first real CRPG that I got into, but Pool of Radiance felt like the first TRUE AD&D CRPG."

It's almost as though Pool of Radiance was the first licensed D&D/AD&D CRPG. :M
 

Beans00

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No one cared about poe1, no one cared about poe2, and no one will care about poe 3.


Why do threads like this even get made?
 

Quillon

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No one cared about poe1, no one cared about poe2, and no one will care about poe 3.


Why do threads like this even get made?
c'mon now in the veeeeeery unlikely event of a BG3 wannabe turn based pillows 3 announcement and afterwards the traffic in codex will be doubled or more for years and years, codexers will care enough to at least shit on it indefinitely
 

Sweeper

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I feel like giving Pillars another shot, because while it might not be good, I do feel like it gets more shit than it deserves.
But then I read what Sawyer has to say, or I look at his twitter pic, and I decide not to.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
I join the general consensus that Josh is a bad choice for a lead on a theoretical PoE3.

However, experience has shown time and again, that good RPGs result from leads who feel invested with the setting and the vision for the game. Those who are merely charged with the task of producing the game will in 9 out of 10 times produce something soulless that's tortuous to the player.

So even if I don't like PoE and I consider it an exercise of swindling gorgnards out of their money to attempt to produce a normie RPG, and failing dramatically; even if I hold many grudges for the final qualities of Deadfire, I still think Josh is the least bad option in terms of the resulting final product.

Not that anyone would bankroll a 120 million "BG3 killer" for Obsidian to produce. I think that was more a random number that Josh throws for its absurdity.

Also I don't think the final quality of that "BG3 killer" depends that much on Josh leading it, though I consider him the best option. A PoE3 would fail miserably regardless of budget and who steers the ship, based on factors like:
1. First and foremost, managing scope. Something Josh failed at in both PoE and PoE2. Conversely when it came to the smaller-scale projects that were the DLCs, their scope was easier to manage and they were better in both games' cases.
2. Changing the technology. Unity with pseudo-3d prerendered backgrounds doesn't perform well. These prerendered backgrounds end up being huge, much bigger than the IE games' prerendered backgrounds and lead to long loading times and memory consumpion, while the game areas themselves are disappointingly small, smaller than in the IE games. Using Unreal engine and streaming the areas is a much better solution. PoE and PoE2 were claustrophobic. Asset streaming would permit larger ares, and better exploration, which is key for a good RPG.
3. Maintaining unity of vision. They failed at that particularly bad in Deadfire where Dangerhyde&Dollarhair were narratively designing one kind of story and tone, while the game director Josh was thinking of another. Deadfire has two plotlines that kind of mix, but just barely, with the player left somewhat puzzled what goal is he working towards.
4. Keep it turn based and only turn based. BG3 and Warhammer Rogue Trader already did it, time for timid Obsidian to come out of the closet about their preference on how they like to stick the sword. The reasoning is obvious here - Josh personally prefers turn based, knows its advantages, and it's easier to design and balance one combat system than two simultaneously. As a bonus, turn based is easier for console players.

Those are off the top of my head. It's all fantasy though. In reality if we get PoE3, it will most likely be a half-assed attempt and Feargus will try to steal half the budget with Josh crunching into the small hours to develop a text-based castle management system, or something similar.
 
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Sannom

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Apr 11, 2010
Messages
951
Not that anyone would bankroll a 120 million "BG3 killer" for Obsidian to produce. I think that was more a random number that Josh throws for its absurdity.
One should probably mention that Sawyer has never mentioned that number. Or any number, really.

EDIT : alright, I forgot he used that number outside of the Touch Arcade interview.

2. Changing the technology. Unity with pseudo-3d prerendered backgrounds doesn't perform well. These prerendered backgrounds end up being huge, much bigger than the IE games' prerendered backgrounds and lead to long loading times and memory consumpion, while the game areas themselves are disappointingly small, smaller than in the IE games. Using Unreal engine and streaming the areas is a much better solution. PoE and PoE2 were claustrophobic. Asset streaming would permit larger ares, and better exploration, which is key for a good RPG.
Sawyer has also said that they would probably go full 3D for a hypothetical PoE3, for much the reasons you just described. Although he has talked against giving control of the camera to the player and opt for a static camera most of the time.

4. Keep it turn based and only turn based. BG3 and Warhammer Rogue Trader already did it, time for timid Obsidian to come out of the closet about their preference on how they like to stick the sword. The reasoning is obvious here - Josh personally prefers turn based, knows its advantages, and it's easier to design and balance one combat system than two simultaneously. As a bonus, turn based is easier for console players.
Sadly, that seems that it would be the plan. I am personally opposed to it because I love the RtwP of Deadfire, but hey, what can you do ?
 
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Quillon

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Dec 15, 2016
Messages
5,243
I join the general consensus that Josh is a bad choice for a lead on a theoretical PoE3.
with tim gone/duo disbanded, sawya is the only choice they have to lead a big budget gaym who isn't prone to get pushed around by feargus & co. otherwise its highway to development hell. dude even convinced feargus to pay him probably the highest salary in the studio for not actually doing anything
However, experience has shown time and again, that good RPGs result from leads who feel invested with the setting and the vision for the game. Those who are merely charged with the task of producing the game will in 9 out of 10 times produce something soulless that's tortuous to the player.
we are too focused on the leads; sawya won't make another widely accepted to be a good/great gaym without having buncha writers/designers like gonzalez, avellone, fenstermaker etc together. who have strong vision themselves; shaping the game for the better from what the director first envisioned. hence tim & leo failed with TOW cos they didn't have mitsoda, anderson etc tier support. good luck making a bg3 challenger with patel & kate D as your support; at best they'll do exactly as they are told, at worst they'll shove in their current year agenda, probab.. certainly both
 

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