elander_
Arbiter
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2005
- Messages
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Mareus said:...I have to agree on some points with Andhaira.
I only had to read this far.
Mareus said:...I have to agree on some points with Andhaira.
Yeah, that sucks. So, why are you a murderer again?Mareus said:1. If a merchant is supposed to be such a devious character, I hope there will be a very detailed explanation of who the merchants actualy are before starting the game. (That is a must, because I don't want to start the game and finding out after 30 minutes that I am a murderor and not be allowed to do anything about it.)
They are kind of not, but continue...2. If VD is really trying to make a game where you have multiple choices, I think there should be an option to chose a different path, just for the sake of choice. I mean even if the merchants are kind of mafia...
Uh, what? Pretty much every sentence in this paragraph is based on your incorrect assumptions. Now, I'm not saying that you should be interested in the game and read stuff about it, but if you want to discuss and make some points, shouldn't you, like, know what you are talking about?... there could always be other ways to get the map. Why not paying a thief to steal the map? Why assasination? It doesn't even make sense, because hiring a thief should cost less then hiring an assasin to kill someone, and it raises a lot less questions. Does playing a merchant mean I have to be a murderer from the beggining? Now that is what should be changed and I agree there with Andhaira. There are so many ways to avoid killing the guy with the map that I really don't understand why VD chose murder (the most wicked and extreme solution) as the only way.
:facepalm:3. Maybe someone would want to play a merchant that doesn't agree with the merchant guild, so he wants out. He doesn't want to kill, because he decided to change his way of life for better or worse, so he decided to blackmail the other merchant with something. From stealing, blackmailing, buying VD chose murder just to get the map. Wrong choice if you ask me. Here are some other options you could have. Meeting with the map merchant and negotiating for the map. Intimidating, bribing... Maybe even setting a trap -> capturing him and then stealing the map. So many other options, but no... it has to be murder.WHY??
Jora said:Mareus, the merchant isn't killed because others want the map. The Commercium wants him dead because he operates outside of the guild. He's in a hurry to meet the local lord and get his protection in exchange for the map. The merchants want the assassin to say, "You're still not welcome in this town" which implies that he's been told to stay away. He knew he would risk his neck if he came back.
But it doesn't make you a murderer.Mareus said:I was under the impression that you have to hire an assasin to kill the map merchant to get the map. That is murder.
You are not playing a murdering merchant as we have no classes, but you can join a guild that may not fit your vanilla fantasies about businesses.Even you VD, just said that merchants in AoD are not like everyday today merchants, so if he doesn't like it he should play something else.
Master_of_teh_Obvious said:One would think that Merchant would give some hint as to what the class/career does!
Vault Dweller said:But it doesn't make you a murderer.Mareus said:I was under the impression that you have to hire an assasin to kill the map merchant to get the map. That is murder.
Vault Dweller said:Linos, the guildmaster:
I can't believe that this bastard Gracius dared to come to Teron after all. It's an insult.
Gracius?
The fat merchant, remember? We caught him peddling his wares in Teron six months ago and threw him out. Well, he's back in town again. Talk to Neleos, the guildmaster of the assassins. Ask him to take care of this problem for us. Here is the money; 300 imperials should be more than enough. Make sure he tells Gracius "The Merchants Guild wishes to remind you that you're *still* not welcome in this town" before they cut his throat or whatever it is they do to kill people.
1. You'll kill a man for trading in your town?
You are overdramatizing the situation. Did the merchant give me any choice? No. If I do nothing now, tomorrow ten merchants will open shops here without paying the guild. We must protect our interests.
2. What about the laws?
What about them? I'm not asking you to steal his purse, I'm asking you to pay the assassins to kill him. Must I do everything myself?
3. I'll talk to Neleos.
....
Nobody cares about or asks you to get the map. You acquire it accidentally.
Nobody said it was a massive flaw, if a flaw at all. Understand that I drew my conclusions from what I read on the forum and nobody until yesterday didn't say a thing about the truth of the matter. Also dialog options alone don't make a game great. For example japanese RPGs like Final Fantasy 6,7 don't have almost any dialog options, yet with their deep stories, interesting characters, fantastic movies and lot's of things to do always manage to draw me into the game. Even Witcher doesn't have great dialog options, but is nevertheless a great game. Or does anyone remember Blood Omen: legacy of Kain? No dialog options at all, but Kain's voice and monologues were fantastic.Vault Dweller said:You are not playing a murdering merchant as we have no classes, but you can join a guild that may not fit your vanilla fantasies about businesses.Even you VD, just said that merchants in AoD are not like everyday today merchants, so if he doesn't like it he should play something else.
AoD doesn't allow you to play a mage. Is it a massive flaw? AoD's assassins guild operates freely, but some people prefer to have a secret assassins guild. Is it another massive flaw? And so on.
Mareus said:For example japanese RPGs like Final Fantasy 6,7 don't have almost any dialog options, yet with their deep stories, interesting characters, fantastic movies and lot's of things to do always manage to draw me into the game.
Jasede said:Mareus said:For example japanese RPGs like Final Fantasy 6,7 don't have almost any dialog options, yet with their deep stories, interesting characters, fantastic movies and lot's of things to do always manage to draw me into the game.
ushdugery said:What you say does not make you who you are, anyone arguing this point is being a pedant or an imbecile. You don't like what this game is doing, fine don't pay for it a play it no one has ever said you have to. What you are saying and or arguing is not an intelligent nor particularly interestingly contentious point. Don't fool yourself in to think you are pushing any intellectual ideology or objection you are nothing more than a pathetic troll. Please, do the world a favour and invest some time in brushing up about darwinism and practicing some of it's values.
The list of things is so massive it'd clog the tubes, so for the sake of porn-browsing children everywhere, let's just call it: "Everything."Mareus said:What's wrong with FF? :shock:
Mareus said:"What you say does not make you who you are..." ??? ARE YOU RETARDED???
1. Where have I said that? Where did you pull that out?
2. So by your theory what you do also does not make you who you are? So I could pay someone to murder you for being a retard and that would not make me a bad person. You really don't know anything about anything. It is exactly what you say and do that determine who you are! Many people have good or bad thoughts, they have great or bad ideas, dreams, but as long as they do not make them into reality they remain NOTHING, therefore it is your deeds and words that detirmine who you are, dumbass. And if you can't see that then you are so stupid I wish I could kill you now, because there is too much retarded people on this planet already. See, dumbass? My words here show exactly what short temper I have with morons! Ofcourse it doesn't mean I will really kill you but they do show a part of my personality!
I offered arguments while you offered shit, so shut the fuck up if you think spreading insults is the way to make a point. Where have I ever said I don't like what the game is doing? I LOVE WHAT VD IS DOING!! I just suggested a few things that would IN MY OPPINION make the game even better. It is VD who will decide what to do with the game and I said later that dialog options alone won't make a big difference, because you have many games who don't even have dialog options but still rule. It would just be a nice touch. Like a cream on the cake.
And if you think giving suggestions makes one a troll then you clearly are not a very intelligent person. So be a good dumbass and do a world a favour by shooting yourself in the head. We already have too many clueless assholes on this site.
Disconnected said:The list of things is so massive it'd clog the tubes, so for the sake of porn-browsing children everywhere, let's just call it: "Everything."Mareus said:What's wrong with FF? :shock:
Mareus, you would have a point if that single intro sequence was indicative of typical gameplay. Only, it is an introductory sequence. The point isn't to give you a bunch of choices with far-reaching consequences you might inadvertently doom yourself with, because of your total lack of familiarity with the setting and its inhabitants. On the contrary, the point is to ease you into the gameworld so you don't accidentally fuck yourself through ignorance.
If only the real world worked like that.. Then perhaps you wouldn't have written page after page of non sequiturs.
Mareus said:If I hire someone to murder someone, that doesn't make me any less guilty than a guy who will preform the bloody deed. Ok, I may not be a murderer directly, but i am participating in murder and I don't have anything to say about it.
Mareus said:The only option I get is: I ll talk with Neelos. Wouldn't it just be nice to have a say in the matter?
Mareus said:Atleast to add some options like:
"When I joined the merchant guild no one said anything about killing people. I wont do it."
"Why not just break his fingers. I am sure he will get the message."
"Give me some time and I will find something on the fat merchant. I will use it to blackmail him and we could even earn money to keep his secret a secret. I do not justify killing people for trying to trade in the town."
"It will be my pleasure."
elander_ said:Of course that what you say and do makes you who you are, but how do you know who you are unless you see it from people reactions and the consequences of your actions in the world. You could be a murder and child raper but if everyone was a murder and child raper and nobody cared then you would be a nice guy. You would be invited to parties and there would be little girls for the guests to rape and shoting sports would be done with peasants as targets.
elander_ said:The point is you have, say 100 pages of text limit for dialogs and more 100 pages of scripts to program changes in the world, you have to filter something out. When you do an rpg you are interested in making an image of a certain society and their people and you do that by giving them choices and interact with the world and letting them watch the result. What kind of choices goes in and what goes out depends on the authors composition of the world.
Not everyone has to follow the same composition. I personally like to play rpgs that let us chose our own moral stance and stick to play within a certain style.
ushdugery said:Mareus said:"What you say does not make you who you are..." ??? ARE YOU RETARDED???
FIT OF RAGE....
And if you think giving suggestions makes one a troll then you clearly are not a very intelligent person. So be a good dumbass and do a world a favour by shooting yourself in the head. We already have too many clueless assholes on this site.
Sorry if I inadvertantly insulted you with my post it was never intention and I hope my following post has cleared things up.
elander_ said:Saying you talk to Neelos is another way to get away. You exit the guild but then you decide to forget about it. Hopefully there would be a nasty consequence to that too but by then the player may already be a bad ass and the merchants guild my wish to forget that transgression from a rookie.
elander_ said:Different composition choices and space limitations, probably. That's only an initial quest anyway. It shows what it is to be expected of you if you chose a certain profession. I recall that you don't have to chose any profession and you will be droped on the streets to play as you wish.
And Mareus i'm not attacking or defending anyone. Just posting my own opinion.
Mareus said:The moral is above society or religion, so something is wrong even if whole society or religion says it is ok. It would just mean that the whole society is twisted.
Mareus said:The moral is above society or religion, so something is wrong even if whole society or religion says it is ok. It would just mean that the whole society is twisted.
Mareus said:I didn't know about the 100 page/script limit. But I am not arguing the technical limitations of the game, I am just arguing that some people here don't even want to hear a suggestion.
Mareus said:Yeah, but will you be able to get the map then? Do you see the problem here?
Gragt said:Mareus said:The moral is above society or religion, so something is wrong even if whole society or religion says it is ok. It would just mean that the whole society is twisted.
That is because you see this through your own moral prism. Morality is not universal or absolute, it is created by society.