Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

AoD forces you to play certain roles?

elander_

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,015
Mareus said:
...I have to agree on some points with Andhaira.

I only had to read this far.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Mareus said:
1. If a merchant is supposed to be such a devious character, I hope there will be a very detailed explanation of who the merchants actualy are before starting the game. (That is a must, because I don't want to start the game and finding out after 30 minutes that I am a murderor and not be allowed to do anything about it.)
Yeah, that sucks. So, why are you a murderer again?

2. If VD is really trying to make a game where you have multiple choices, I think there should be an option to chose a different path, just for the sake of choice. I mean even if the merchants are kind of mafia...
They are kind of not, but continue...

... there could always be other ways to get the map. Why not paying a thief to steal the map? Why assasination? It doesn't even make sense, because hiring a thief should cost less then hiring an assasin to kill someone, and it raises a lot less questions. Does playing a merchant mean I have to be a murderer from the beggining? Now that is what should be changed and I agree there with Andhaira. There are so many ways to avoid killing the guy with the map that I really don't understand why VD chose murder (the most wicked and extreme solution) as the only way.
Uh, what? Pretty much every sentence in this paragraph is based on your incorrect assumptions. Now, I'm not saying that you should be interested in the game and read stuff about it, but if you want to discuss and make some points, shouldn't you, like, know what you are talking about?

3. Maybe someone would want to play a merchant that doesn't agree with the merchant guild, so he wants out. He doesn't want to kill, because he decided to change his way of life for better or worse, so he decided to blackmail the other merchant with something. From stealing, blackmailing, buying VD chose murder just to get the map. Wrong choice if you ask me. Here are some other options you could have. Meeting with the map merchant and negotiating for the map. Intimidating, bribing... Maybe even setting a trap -> capturing him and then stealing the map. So many other options, but no... it has to be murder.WHY??
:facepalm:
 

Mareus

Magister
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,404
Location
Atlantis
I was under the impression that you have to hire an assasin to kill the map merchant to get the map. That is murder, and I was under the impression it was the only way to get the map. Everything I have read from the beggining of this thread was about hiring the assasin to kill the map merchant and get the map. Now if you are telling me that it isn't so, nobody will be happier than me. Read the first post from Andhaira and not once later in this thread did anyone say he was not telling the truth. Only one guy stated there MAY be other options, but we just dont know. Even you VD, just said that merchants in AoD are not like everyday today merchants, so if he doesn't like it he should play something else. You didn't say he was not telling the truth. That's why I thought it was the wrong aproach. But like I said... if it isnt so... GREAT :)

And i am interested in the game, I just havent had much time to get aquianted with all the details.
 

Jora

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Messages
1,115
Location
Finland
Mareus, the merchant isn't killed because others want the map. The Commercium wants him dead because he operates outside of the guild. He's in a hurry to meet the local lord and get his protection in exchange for the map. The merchants want the assassin to say, "You're still not welcome in this town" which implies that he's been told to stay away. He knew he would risk his neck if he came back.
 

Mareus

Magister
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,404
Location
Atlantis
Jora said:
Mareus, the merchant isn't killed because others want the map. The Commercium wants him dead because he operates outside of the guild. He's in a hurry to meet the local lord and get his protection in exchange for the map. The merchants want the assassin to say, "You're still not welcome in this town" which implies that he's been told to stay away. He knew he would risk his neck if he came back.

Well that is a whole different story. I said there should be another reason to kill him so I suggested something personal, but this is ok too. Why didn't anyone say it sooner?? It would spare me alot of typing. But still maybe death sentance is a bit harsh for start. Do you get to know why the other merchant started to operate outside the guild?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Mareus said:
I was under the impression that you have to hire an assasin to kill the map merchant to get the map. That is murder.
But it doesn't make you a murderer.

Anyway, the Merchants Guild controls all trade in their area of influence. Independent traders are either forced to join them or have to leave the area and trade elsewhere. The trader in question was already kicked out of Teron. Anyway, it's easier to post the vignette text here:

Linos, the guildmaster:
I can't believe that this bastard Gracius dared to come to Teron after all. It's an insult.

Gracius?

The fat merchant, remember? We caught him peddling his wares in Teron six months ago and threw him out. Well, he's back in town again. Talk to Neleos, the guildmaster of the assassins. Ask him to take care of this problem for us. Here is the money; 300 imperials should be more than enough. Make sure he tells Gracius "The Merchants Guild wishes to remind you that you're *still* not welcome in this town" before they cut his throat or whatever it is they do to kill people.

1. You'll kill a man for trading in your town?
You are overdramatizing the situation. Did the merchant give me any choice? No. If I do nothing now, tomorrow ten merchants will open shops here without paying the guild. We must protect our interests.

2. What about the laws?
What about them? I'm not asking you to steal his purse, I'm asking you to pay the assassins to kill him. Must I do everything myself?

3. I'll talk to Neleos.
....

Nobody cares about or asks you to get the map. You acquire it accidentally.

Even you VD, just said that merchants in AoD are not like everyday today merchants, so if he doesn't like it he should play something else.
You are not playing a murdering merchant as we have no classes, but you can join a guild that may not fit your vanilla fantasies about businesses.

AoD doesn't allow you to play a mage. Is it a massive flaw? AoD's assassins guild operates freely, but some people prefer to have a secret assassins guild. Is it another massive flaw? And so on.
 

Noceur

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
199
Location
Tar Pits
Master_of_teh_Obvious said:
One would think that Merchant would give some hint as to what the class/career does!

Yes, it hints at being a member of AoD's Merchant Guild. And as I understand it, it's not a class/career, but a background and only gives you a starting influence with that guild.

If you wish to be a traveling merchant, I suggest you pick the None background as it is unaffiliated with the Merchant Guild, and put your points in diplomacy and haggle, or whatever the corresponding skills may be.

EDIT: Persuasion and Trading, they're called.
 

Mareus

Magister
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,404
Location
Atlantis
Vault Dweller said:
Mareus said:
I was under the impression that you have to hire an assasin to kill the map merchant to get the map. That is murder.
But it doesn't make you a murderer.

Now you are just playing with words. If I hire someone to murder someone, that doesn't make me any less guilty than a guy who will preform the bloody deed. Ok, I may not be a murderer directly, but i am participating in murder and I don't have anything to say about it. The only option I get is: I ll talk with Neelos. Wouldn't it just be nice to have a say in the matter? Atleast to add some options like:
"When I joined the merchant guild no one said anything about killing people. I wont do it."
"Why not just break his fingers. I am sure he will get the message."
"Give me some time and I will find something on the fat merchant. I will use it to blackmail him and we could even earn money to keep his secret a secret. I do not justify killing people for trying to trade in the town."
"It will be my pleasure."

Now you have options and adds to roleplaying.

Vault Dweller said:
Linos, the guildmaster:
I can't believe that this bastard Gracius dared to come to Teron after all. It's an insult.

Gracius?

The fat merchant, remember? We caught him peddling his wares in Teron six months ago and threw him out. Well, he's back in town again. Talk to Neleos, the guildmaster of the assassins. Ask him to take care of this problem for us. Here is the money; 300 imperials should be more than enough. Make sure he tells Gracius "The Merchants Guild wishes to remind you that you're *still* not welcome in this town" before they cut his throat or whatever it is they do to kill people.

1. You'll kill a man for trading in your town?
You are overdramatizing the situation. Did the merchant give me any choice? No. If I do nothing now, tomorrow ten merchants will open shops here without paying the guild. We must protect our interests.

2. What about the laws?
What about them? I'm not asking you to steal his purse, I'm asking you to pay the assassins to kill him. Must I do everything myself?

3. I'll talk to Neleos.
....

Nobody cares about or asks you to get the map. You acquire it accidentally.

I understand now, but still I say choices in the matter would be a nice touch. Just for the sake of roleplaying. Someone would maybe like to play a merchant who does not want to be a part of the merchant guild anymore, or a merchant that doesn't want get his hands dirty. It is the same as someone might want to play an assasin who doesn't want to kill people for money anymore or an assasin who only kills those who deserve to be killed. He should also have an option to not kill the merchant. I know it requires more time and effort on your part, but it would make the very start of the game more interesting. I know I maybe ask too much, but if you defend less choices it is like saying less choices makes the game better and you know it is not true. You know it would be nice, it just means more programming and testing and I understand if after 3 years of gamedevelopment you are a bit tired and want to finish it.

Vault Dweller said:
Even you VD, just said that merchants in AoD are not like everyday today merchants, so if he doesn't like it he should play something else.
You are not playing a murdering merchant as we have no classes, but you can join a guild that may not fit your vanilla fantasies about businesses.

AoD doesn't allow you to play a mage. Is it a massive flaw? AoD's assassins guild operates freely, but some people prefer to have a secret assassins guild. Is it another massive flaw? And so on.
Nobody said it was a massive flaw, if a flaw at all. Understand that I drew my conclusions from what I read on the forum and nobody until yesterday didn't say a thing about the truth of the matter. Also dialog options alone don't make a game great. For example japanese RPGs like Final Fantasy 6,7 don't have almost any dialog options, yet with their deep stories, interesting characters, fantastic movies and lot's of things to do always manage to draw me into the game. Even Witcher doesn't have great dialog options, but is nevertheless a great game. Or does anyone remember Blood Omen: legacy of Kain? No dialog options at all, but Kain's voice and monologues were fantastic.

All I am saying is thatl more dialog options would be nice. I know you will tell me to make my own game if I want more, but then you would be acting like Bethseda, when people suggest things that require more time. I am just suggesting and not attacking. It's up to you to decide what to do.
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Mareus said:
For example japanese RPGs like Final Fantasy 6,7 don't have almost any dialog options, yet with their deep stories, interesting characters, fantastic movies and lot's of things to do always manage to draw me into the game.

stopschild.jpg
 

Mareus

Magister
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,404
Location
Atlantis
Jasede said:
Mareus said:
For example japanese RPGs like Final Fantasy 6,7 don't have almost any dialog options, yet with their deep stories, interesting characters, fantastic movies and lot's of things to do always manage to draw me into the game.

stopschild.jpg

What's wrong with FF? :shock:
 

ushdugery

Scholar
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
371
What you say does not make you who you are, anyone arguing this point is being a pedant or an imbecile. You don't like what this game is doing, fine don't pay for it a play it no one has ever said you have to. What you are saying and or arguing is not an intelligent nor particularly interestingly contentious point. Don't fool yourself in to think you are pushing any intellectual ideology or objection you are nothing more than a pathetic troll. Please, do the world a favour and invest some time in brushing up about darwinism and practicing some of it's values.
 

Mareus

Magister
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,404
Location
Atlantis
ushdugery said:
What you say does not make you who you are, anyone arguing this point is being a pedant or an imbecile. You don't like what this game is doing, fine don't pay for it a play it no one has ever said you have to. What you are saying and or arguing is not an intelligent nor particularly interestingly contentious point. Don't fool yourself in to think you are pushing any intellectual ideology or objection you are nothing more than a pathetic troll. Please, do the world a favour and invest some time in brushing up about darwinism and practicing some of it's values.

"What you say does not make you who you are..." ??? ARE YOU RETARDED???
1. Where have I said that? Where did you pull that out?
2. So by your theory what you do also does not make you who you are? So I could pay someone to murder you for being a retard and that would not make me a bad person. You really don't know anything about anything. It is exactly what you say and do that determine who you are! Many people have good or bad thoughts, they have great or bad ideas, dreams, but as long as they do not make them into reality they remain NOTHING, therefore it is your deeds and words that detirmine who you are, dumbass. And if you can't see that then you are so stupid I wish I could kill you now, because there is too much retarded people on this planet already. See, dumbass? My words here show exactly what short temper I have with morons! Ofcourse it doesn't mean I will really kill you but they do show a part of my personality!

I offered arguments while you offered shit, so shut the fuck up if you think spreading insults is the way to make a point. Where have I ever said I don't like what the game is doing? I LOVE WHAT VD IS DOING!! I just suggested a few things that would IN MY OPPINION make the game even better. It is VD who will decide what to do with the game and I said later that dialog options alone won't make a big difference, because you have many games who don't even have dialog options but still rule. It would just be a nice touch. Like a cream on the cake.

And if you think giving suggestions makes one a troll then you clearly are not a very intelligent person. So be a good dumbass and do a world a favour by shooting yourself in the head. We already have too many clueless assholes on this site.
 

Disconnected

Scholar
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
609
Mareus said:
What's wrong with FF? :shock:
The list of things is so massive it'd clog the tubes, so for the sake of porn-browsing children everywhere, let's just call it: "Everything."

Mareus, you would have a point if that single intro sequence was indicative of typical gameplay. Only, it is an introductory sequence. The point isn't to give you a bunch of choices with far-reaching consequences you might inadvertently doom yourself with, because of your total lack of familiarity with the setting and its inhabitants. On the contrary, the point is to ease you into the gameworld so you don't accidentally fuck yourself through ignorance.

If only the real world worked like that.. Then perhaps you wouldn't have written page after page of non sequiturs.
 

ushdugery

Scholar
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
371
Mareus said:
"What you say does not make you who you are..." ??? ARE YOU RETARDED???
1. Where have I said that? Where did you pull that out?
2. So by your theory what you do also does not make you who you are? So I could pay someone to murder you for being a retard and that would not make me a bad person. You really don't know anything about anything. It is exactly what you say and do that determine who you are! Many people have good or bad thoughts, they have great or bad ideas, dreams, but as long as they do not make them into reality they remain NOTHING, therefore it is your deeds and words that detirmine who you are, dumbass. And if you can't see that then you are so stupid I wish I could kill you now, because there is too much retarded people on this planet already. See, dumbass? My words here show exactly what short temper I have with morons! Ofcourse it doesn't mean I will really kill you but they do show a part of my personality!

I offered arguments while you offered shit, so shut the fuck up if you think spreading insults is the way to make a point. Where have I ever said I don't like what the game is doing? I LOVE WHAT VD IS DOING!! I just suggested a few things that would IN MY OPPINION make the game even better. It is VD who will decide what to do with the game and I said later that dialog options alone won't make a big difference, because you have many games who don't even have dialog options but still rule. It would just be a nice touch. Like a cream on the cake.

And if you think giving suggestions makes one a troll then you clearly are not a very intelligent person. So be a good dumbass and do a world a favour by shooting yourself in the head. We already have too many clueless assholes on this site.

Before you disolve into a fit of manic rage first consider a few things.(Look I can use numbered points too!)

1.My point was not targeted at you it was targeted at the op's assumption that just because his merchant character is aquiesing to his superior's desires verbally does not mean he is actually going to fulfill them or is even contemplating filling them, people have more complexity and layers than that.

2.If you actually read or understood my post, (I'm not saying you couldn't i'm only suggesting you felt attacked and immediately went on the defensive.) you would realise I was infact attack the op for not using logical argument and reasoning to come to conclusions.They merely seems to be taking offense and provocating people without being willing to come to a middle ground.

3.I did indeed suggest things and give reasoning in my post and never attacked you, maybe it's time to calm down. Nor did I make the statement or accusation that they did not like the game and although I missed the important article "IF" in my writing as I was speaking coloquially and it was implied in my writing.(Subtext is an important and often interesting part of dialogue.)

4.I was merely leveling my disgust at the opening poster perhaps you should confirm someones intentions next time you react so obtusely it will help to avert embarassing misunderstandings.

Sorry if I inadvertantly insulted you with my post it was never intention and I hope my following post has cleared things up.


Edit: I would like also to add that if all that defined who I am is my words and actions all completely visible and outwardly decipherable things I would be a much shallower person than I consider myself. Maybe what really defines is nature and nurture in twisted combat, perhaps I am just a simple construct of genetics and environment. Alas that is probably a conversation for another day.
 

elander_

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,015
Of course that what you say and do makes you who you are, but how do you know who you are unless you see it from people reactions and the consequences of your actions in the world. You could be a murder and child raper but if everyone was a murder and child raper and nobody cared then you would be a nice guy. You would be invited to parties and there would be little girls for the guests to rape and shoting sports would be done with peasants as targets.

The point is you have, say 100 pages of text limit for dialogs and more 100 pages of scripts to program changes in the world, you have to filter something out. When you do an rpg you are interested in making an image of a certain society and their people and you do that by giving them choices and interact with the world and letting them watch the result. What kind of choices goes in and what goes out depends on the authors composition of the world.

Not everyone has to follow the same composition. I personally like to play rpgs that let us chose our own moral stance and stick to play within a certain style.
 

Mareus

Magister
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,404
Location
Atlantis
Disconnected said:
Mareus said:
What's wrong with FF? :shock:
The list of things is so massive it'd clog the tubes, so for the sake of porn-browsing children everywhere, let's just call it: "Everything."

Mareus, you would have a point if that single intro sequence was indicative of typical gameplay. Only, it is an introductory sequence. The point isn't to give you a bunch of choices with far-reaching consequences you might inadvertently doom yourself with, because of your total lack of familiarity with the setting and its inhabitants. On the contrary, the point is to ease you into the gameworld so you don't accidentally fuck yourself through ignorance.

If only the real world worked like that.. Then perhaps you wouldn't have written page after page of non sequiturs.

You are full of it! I will just talk about FF 7 now, because it is my favorite, but isn't that a game with a very deep story? Seriously I would need a page just to touch the basic story. Each character has it's own story, it's own history, feelings, personality and there is many characters. Main villian is one of the best villians ever created in PC games to this day. You have over 2 hours of animations. You have over 30 min of great movie sequences which fit perfectly into the game. The game is huge, with lot's of minie games which I find refreshing from main gameplay. Tons of weapons, items,... Open world with countless things you can do. From acting in a silly show, to riding a motorcycle while fighting, driving a submarine, etc. Great music, great graphic for the time... I agree that there is alot of battles. I agree sometimes the game is just silly, but that goes with anime. I agree some enemies look silly so there are few things that could be done better, but when you take into consideration the game was made in 1997, name me 5 games that had ALL THIS to offer before 1997 and I will say yes you are right: FF7 does suck!

Furthermore if the point of AOD isn't to give you options that give you a bunch of choices with far-reaching consequences with which you might inadvertently doom yourself with, or so you don't accidentally fuck yourself through ignorance, then why is the game's main site FEATURING CONSEQUENSES AS ONE OF THE MAIN FEATURES??

Cause and consequense is something I would really want to see in a game and it is one of the reasons I actually look forward to this game. I am not saying VD MUST do it. I am suggesting and let him decide what to do. I really don't understand why everyone is defending the game even from suggestions, like it is a personal attack on what VD is trying to do. I swear some of you guys are worse than Bethseda's fanboys.
 

elander_

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,015
Mareus said:
If I hire someone to murder someone, that doesn't make me any less guilty than a guy who will preform the bloody deed. Ok, I may not be a murderer directly, but i am participating in murder and I don't have anything to say about it.

The merchants guild is agressive and brutal. They may not wish you let losers (in their opinion) go away. However i agree that it would be better to show this to the player with a nasty consequence of someone attacking him if he said no to that quest.

Mareus said:
The only option I get is: I ll talk with Neelos. Wouldn't it just be nice to have a say in the matter?

Saying you talk to Neelos is another way to get away. You exit the guild but then you decide to forget about it. Hopefully there would be a nasty consequence to that too but by then the player may already be a bad ass and the merchants guild my wish to forget that transgression from a rookie.

Mareus said:
Atleast to add some options like:
"When I joined the merchant guild no one said anything about killing people. I wont do it."
"Why not just break his fingers. I am sure he will get the message."
"Give me some time and I will find something on the fat merchant. I will use it to blackmail him and we could even earn money to keep his secret a secret. I do not justify killing people for trying to trade in the town."
"It will be my pleasure."

Different composition choices and space limitations, probably. That's only an initial quest anyway. It shows what it is to be expected of you if you chose a certain profession. I recall that you don't have to chose any profession and you will be droped on the streets to play as you wish.

And Mareus i'm not attacking or defending anyone. Just posting my own opinion.
 

Mareus

Magister
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,404
Location
Atlantis
elander_ said:
Of course that what you say and do makes you who you are, but how do you know who you are unless you see it from people reactions and the consequences of your actions in the world. You could be a murder and child raper but if everyone was a murder and child raper and nobody cared then you would be a nice guy. You would be invited to parties and there would be little girls for the guests to rape and shoting sports would be done with peasants as targets.

The moral is above society or religion, so something is wrong even if whole society or religion says it is ok. It would just mean that the whole society is twisted.

elander_ said:
The point is you have, say 100 pages of text limit for dialogs and more 100 pages of scripts to program changes in the world, you have to filter something out. When you do an rpg you are interested in making an image of a certain society and their people and you do that by giving them choices and interact with the world and letting them watch the result. What kind of choices goes in and what goes out depends on the authors composition of the world.

Not everyone has to follow the same composition. I personally like to play rpgs that let us chose our own moral stance and stick to play within a certain style.

I didn't know about the 100 page/script limit. But I am not arguing the technical limitations of the game, I am just arguing that some people here don't even want to hear a suggestion.
 

Mareus

Magister
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,404
Location
Atlantis
ushdugery said:
Mareus said:
"What you say does not make you who you are..." ??? ARE YOU RETARDED???

FIT OF RAGE....

And if you think giving suggestions makes one a troll then you clearly are not a very intelligent person. So be a good dumbass and do a world a favour by shooting yourself in the head. We already have too many clueless assholes on this site.

Sorry if I inadvertantly insulted you with my post it was never intention and I hope my following post has cleared things up.

Sorry :oops:

I just get so many assholes on my ass sometimes I lose it.
 

ushdugery

Scholar
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
371
Completely understandable I was about to do the same myself and get into an argument with someone I had no issue or reason to argue with(Your own good self.) and realised I was being silly quickly enough to stop myself.
 

Mareus

Magister
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,404
Location
Atlantis
elander_ said:
Saying you talk to Neelos is another way to get away. You exit the guild but then you decide to forget about it. Hopefully there would be a nasty consequence to that too but by then the player may already be a bad ass and the merchants guild my wish to forget that transgression from a rookie.

Yeah, but will you be able to get the map then? Do you see the problem here?

elander_ said:
Different composition choices and space limitations, probably. That's only an initial quest anyway. It shows what it is to be expected of you if you chose a certain profession. I recall that you don't have to chose any profession and you will be droped on the streets to play as you wish.

And Mareus i'm not attacking or defending anyone. Just posting my own opinion.

Well, wish there was more poeple like you around.
 

Gragt

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
1,864,860
Location
Dans Ton Cul
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin
Mareus said:
The moral is above society or religion, so something is wrong even if whole society or religion says it is ok. It would just mean that the whole society is twisted.

That is because you see this through your own moral prism. Morality is not universal or absolute, it is created by society.
 

elander_

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,015
Mareus said:
The moral is above society or religion, so something is wrong even if whole society or religion says it is ok. It would just mean that the whole society is twisted.

Ok but that's not what the game is trying to pass. The game is showing the twisted moral by which AoD society lives by. It's then your choice to live by the moral code you think is right or just explore the game.

Mareus said:
I didn't know about the 100 page/script limit. But I am not arguing the technical limitations of the game, I am just arguing that some people here don't even want to hear a suggestion.

100 page limit was only an example. I don't know what the limit is in terms of scripts and dialogs but there's always a limit. I'm probably being overly optimistic when i was talking about 100 pages of text for scripts. Usually it's scripts that and script testing that are most limiting.

Mareus said:
Yeah, but will you be able to get the map then? Do you see the problem here?

That's a reasonable question. Since you can do it without chosing any profession i assume there must be a back door for the main quest.
 

Mareus

Magister
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,404
Location
Atlantis
Gragt said:
Mareus said:
The moral is above society or religion, so something is wrong even if whole society or religion says it is ok. It would just mean that the whole society is twisted.

That is because you see this through your own moral prism. Morality is not universal or absolute, it is created by society.

I cannot agree. If a society wrongs someone that someone will suffer. Suffering will always invoke compassion in some people even when whole society says it's completly normal. Compassion is familiar to everyone because everyone has suffered atleast once in their life. Things like compassion prove that moral is above society, it just needs someone to stand against the society. Very often the society will kill that someone (like Jesus), but that feeling of guilt will remain. That feeling of guilt also proves moral is above society. I have no doubt humans will either change their ways or they will perish. There can not be middle for a very long time.
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
In the Middle Ages, guilds also had the monopoly of their trade, with punishments for independent practitioners, possibly even death in some cities.
In any case, in a semi-post-apocalyptic world, the guild can't expect the Imperial guards or anyone else to give a fuck about their monopoly. So they have to take it into their own hands. They don't seem unreasonable, either - they kicked Gracius out at the first offense. He came back. What are they to do?
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom