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Banned from ITS Forum

Elhoim

Iron Tower Studio
Developer
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
2,878
Location
San Isidro, Argentina
Pliskin said:
Elhoim said:
No we have Vista issues. We tested the game on 12 PCs, none of them had Vista. You can load the game, but when you start combat, it crashes because Vista replaces your character ID with something else.

CGC::_startCombat() - combat initiator: 3000
CombatTurn::start() - combat initiator: 3000
CombatTurn::start() - combat central found: Yes
CombatTurn::start() - adding combat initiator to fight: 3000, 6089
CombatTurn::start() - combat turn #1 started successfully.
3000
-2013265920

When it should show this:

CGC::_startCombat() - combat initiator: 3000
CombatTurn::start() - combat initiator: 3000
CombatTurn::start() - combat central found: Yes
CombatTurn::start() - adding combat initiator to fight: 3000, 6089
CombatTurn::start() - combat turn #1 started successfully.
3000
2001

For some reason, the ID of the PC is completely fucked up. Etc.

So, with Windows 7 just around the corner, I assume we should expect further OS localization-related delays?

I'm pretty sure it won't be an issue, since Windows 7 is based on the Vista architecture.
 

Jaime Lannister

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
7,183
What the fuck are you doing Vault Dweller

The guy deserved a ban but why the fuck are you moderating your own forums and then defending your moderating decisions on another forum instead of working on the game? Get a real moderator who's not working on the game.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
Vault Dweller said:
Silellak said:
Okay, honest question, because I haven't seen any - what hype has ITS been generating outside of these forums, the ITS forums, and a few news articles here and there?
None. I've even stopped doing interviews because I didn't want to talk about the game until the demo is released.

Matt7895 said:
I mean, we don't know what kind of stage of development AoD is in...
It's in the state where Brian Mitsoda decided to work with us and in the state where a playable combat demo was given to several people. Draw your own conclusions.

The third beta round will start later on today. If everything works fine, the demo will be released in 2-3 weeks. It's been a long wait, but it was a lot harder on us than it was on you.

Fair enough.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Jaime Lannister said:
What the fuck are you doing Vault Dweller

The guy deserved a ban but why the fuck are you moderating your own forums and then defending your moderating decisions on another forum instead of working on the game?
I was at work. I can only do so much there. And I'm not defending my decision, I'm participating in an almost epic internet drama.

obediah said:
And the slow overall pace bites you in the ass with a steady trickle of items - the world doesn't slow down for hobbyist developers...
It's true, but we can't really do much about it.

Bluegrazz said:
Well I will remind you of this post anytime I see you bitching about any game you havnt yet bought- They dont owe ya shit, quit bitching.
You're confusing criticizing features (and backing up your criticism with arguments) with complaining that the game hasn't been released yet.

Thanks for reminding me though, I am just a potential consumer, I have no rights.
What rights would you like to have, dear?
 

Imbecile

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
1,267
Location
Bristol, England
Gold said:
Melcar said:
The AoD forums seem to be full of retards. Maybe that's why the game never comes out. By the way, is it true the release date got pushed back to Friday?
No not Friday.... :cry:

No definitely not Friday! AoD is one of the few games that whether its release date slips by a week, or by 10 weeks, the release date stays the same. ::zen
 

Geofferic

Educated
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Messages
51
The game isn't coming out on time. So sad. If you gave them money, you're the fool for giving money to someone for nothing in return.

Let them develop the game at their own pace. If it's too slow for the public's liking, the game will flop and be critically destroyed. If it's developed and released in a market-tolerable amount of time, and it's quality, it will be a success.

Why do people that have no financial stake care at all about the development cycle?
 

Serious_Business

Best Poster on the Codex
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
3,904
Location
Frown Town
PrzeSzkoda said:
_________________
AoD Lead Artist

The signature made the whole post feel pompous. :cool:

He's the only artist on the team, which is funny, and stuff. Guess it's to look better on his resume or something
I just love people who have their resume stamped on their forehead, means that have life experience and a whole lot of personality
 

Hory

Erudite
Joined
Oct 1, 2003
Messages
3,002
Serious_Business said:
I am expert on rpg and I become very angry when people give uneducated opinion on rpg. Rpg is very serious exact science and not a stupid way to kill time, it is very important to know about this subject. If you are not knowledgeable about rpg then you are a moron
Oh, it's the RPGs that are stupid, not the one who considers them stupid yet still plays them?
 

bhlaab

Erudite
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
1,787
Why do you think you're owed anything at this point?

If the game comes out, either buy it or don't. That's the entirety of your power as a consumer.
 

Warden

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
1,106
Location
In your nightmare.
Nice to see VD completing his metamorphosis:

From
vault%20dweller.jpg

to
davegaider.jpg




Bluegrazz, the number 1 rule on the codex is: NEVER EVER SHOW ANY EMOTIONS. You must pretend like you just don't care.
Otherwise, you will be swarmed by countless individuals who claim you're butthurt. These same people spent half of their lives rambling and going mental on internet forums about choices and consequences in video games.
Ah, the irony of life.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
bhlaab said:
Why do you think you're owed anything at this point?

If the game comes out, either buy it or don't. That's the entirety of your power as a consumer.

Why does his complaining about a game imply that he thinks he's owed anything?

If Oblivion has awful writing, shitty gameplay and is an abomination to rpgs, then either buy it or don't. That's the entirety of your power as a consumer.

If Dragon Age is looking like a creepy Japanese dating sim, then either buy it or don't. That's the entirety of your power as a consumer.

On that logic we should stop complaining about any video games ever - after all Todd Howard and D Gaider don't owe us to make the kind of game we'd like, so we'd better take our nasty comments and keep them to ourselves!

And if we're looking to distinguish between complaining about development time and complaining about features, well sorry but we've already got a precedent on that - my topic on the The Restoration Project is almost 70 pages now, mostly filled with comments like the OPs mocking the TSLRP's forum fanboys for making posts almost identical to those here and on the ITS forums. Maybe our behaviour regarding TSLRP might, just might, be why trolls are saying the exact same things regarding another indie project with an aversion to giving firm release dates? Hmm?

Not that I'm backing the OP's actual complaints - he didn't make anyone look stupid except himself. Well, the people who posted after him saying 'it's an independent developer and he's doing it on his own time' looked stupid, but they achieved that entirely by themselves - as a causal explanation yes, it probably is the reason why development is taking a while (though not an unusal amount, for a game of that type - I'm attacking the nature of the posts defending the game, not the game development itself), but that's about as relevant as saying 'Todd Howard has no talent, it's not his fault his game is crap'. Sure it's probably true - things DO come up, and if you've got a small development team working part-time that makes it all the less likely that a game will be made within a commercial time-frame - but from a consumer's viewpoint I couldn't care less whether a game was made by an indie company or crapped out by the magic rpg fairy. If someone says 'gee, this game is taking a long time', and others go 'but it's an indie developer', the proper response of hte OP should have been to say 'yes, that's exactly what I said. It's an indie developer, therefore my cynicism is more likely to be justified, because it's a small team, working in their spare time, and things will come up and get in the way'.

This is an rpg site, and a rather caustic one, dedicated mainly to shredding rpgs for their failings, or perceived failings, even before they are released. See the discussion of Dragon Age and Alpha Protocol for examples. The developers of those games don't 'owe' us anything, anymore than VD does. Yet criticism of those games has gone so far as to include ongoing personal abuse of the designers themselves, and no-one blinks an eye. Just think for a moment how much shite one would cop if they were to post 'why do you think Todd Howard owes you anything' every time someone posted a mocked up or otherwise unflatterring photo of him or Hines, of an image of the fallout boy doing a facepalm, or a series of personal insults about how awful/stupid/immoral/greedy/shite Todd Howard and David Gaider are? Hell, it's more common for Codexers to post 'mock' Bethesda-fanboy postings in caps saying 'what does Bioware owe you, if you don't liek Dragon Age go maek your own game lol!' - mocking the very idea that someone should question the reasonableness of criticisng game development for not matching the posters' tastes. And quite rightly so.

And if AoD should be excepted from criticism because 'it's an inde project', then so should Oblivion and FO3 because 'Todd just doesn't have talent'. People should either stop calling people butthurt for making demands of AD, or start calling everyone butthurt for making demands of Bethesda/Bioware/Obsidian. Again, I'm not saying that the OP's criticism was correct - rpgs take a long time to make, even for fully staffed companies, and the best sign that it isn't vapourware is annie and Mitsoda assocaiting themselves with ITS and using the ITS engine. It's the reaction to the criticism that is shite - that instead of simply engaging in debate over rpg development (what this site is for), people are questioning the OPs right to bitch about the game or its developers. Personally, I've got a couple of concerns about the game, but I've posted those in previous topics and whilst I wasn't satisfied by VD's response in those topics I don't think there's anything to gain by arguing any further about it. Then again, I've got a similar attitude to Alpha Protocal and even Dragon Age - I'll wait til they come out before hyping or criticising them. But if people want to discuss game quality while the game is still in development, then by all means they should be free to do so without getting flamed for it - after all, we've already thoroughly mocked the idea of 'waiting til we've tried the game' for every other rpg in development, why should this one be any different?
 

bhlaab

Erudite
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
1,787
Azrael the cat said:
bhlaab said:
Why do you think you're owed anything at this point?

If the game comes out, either buy it or don't. That's the entirety of your power as a consumer.

Why does his complaining about a game imply that he thinks he's owed anything?

If Oblivion has awful writing, shitty gameplay and is an abomination to rpgs, then either buy it or don't. That's the entirety of your power as a consumer.

If Dragon Age is looking like a creepy Japanese dating sim, then either buy it or don't. That's the entirety of your power as a consumer.

First of all, tl;dr faggot

Second, you're exactly right about Oblivion and Dragon Age. Everybody's free to say a game sucks a dick, but nobody has some inalienable right to good games in a timely fashion.

The only investment this guy has made was the effort it took to go "Age of Decadence, eh? Sounds interesting. I will look forward to that." If the situation changes, stop looking forward to it-- problem solved! Doesn't warrant a phone call to customer service.
 

Imbecile

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
1,267
Location
Bristol, England
Azrael the cat said:
bhlaab said:
Why do you think you're owed anything at this point?

If the game comes out, either buy it or don't. That's the entirety of your power as a consumer.

Why does his complaining about a game imply that he thinks he's owed anything?

I thought he was complaining that the game wasn't released yet, which kinda implies he thinks he (or maybe the world in general) is owed the game. If pre-order cash had been paid then I could perhaps understand some level of anger, but as far as I know, nothing has been paid.
 

Ohlie

Novice
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
22
Bluegrazz said:
Thanks for reminding me though, I am just a potential consumer, I have no rights.

A man with this level of righteous indignation ought to channel it toward political causes worth a damn. An indie RPG studio hardly seems worthy.
 

Lysiander

Novice
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
24
Bluegrazz said:
Well I will remind you of this post anytime I see you bitching about any game you havnt yet bought- They dont owe ya shit, quit bitching.

That truly would be the decline of the Codex- There would be like what , 4 posts... Thanks for reminding me though, I am just a potential consumer, I have no rights.
Don't hold your breath for that post.

On that logic we should stop complaining about any video games ever - after all Todd Howard and D Gaider don't owe us to make the kind of game we'd like, so we'd better take our nasty comments and keep them to ourselves!
Critisism, opinions and suggentions actually relating to the game or it's contents are fair game and a good thing. Claiming your "efford" to be part of a community for a not yet existing product entitles you to anything on the other hand is not.

As you said, we are consumers. We have the chance to participate in the process of creation on the lowest of levels by giving feedback about previous products and current directions, but that is it. At the end of the day, our only choice is to take what the developers think is right for us or to not buy the product.

All those posts that you mention are based on the opinions of people and their experience with the products (or its creators etc) in question and not a single one (I know of) states: "They should do things this way because they owe me for whatever obscure reason." Instead, they all read: "If they don't do x like this I won't buy the game because it is not the product im looking for."
One is a statement of entitlement, the other a statement of intent. One is bitching, the other evaluation. Small but important difference.

Its kinda like dinner with your in-laws. You can eat whats on the table or politetly claim your not hungry. You can even drop hints about your favourite meals beforehand or stuff like that. But if you tell your mother in-law, you are entitled to a different meal than the one she is offering, just because you made the efford to show up, well, you get the picture.
 
Joined
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Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
bhlaab said:
Azrael the cat said:
bhlaab said:
Why do you think you're owed anything at this point?

If the game comes out, either buy it or don't. That's the entirety of your power as a consumer.

Why does his complaining about a game imply that he thinks he's owed anything?

If Oblivion has awful writing, shitty gameplay and is an abomination to rpgs, then either buy it or don't. That's the entirety of your power as a consumer.

If Dragon Age is looking like a creepy Japanese dating sim, then either buy it or don't. That's the entirety of your power as a consumer.

First of all, tl;dr faggot

Second, you're exactly right about Oblivion and Dragon Age. Everybody's free to say a game sucks a dick, but nobody has some inalienable right to good games in a timely fashion.

The only investment this guy has made was the effort it took to go "Age of Decadence, eh? Sounds interesting. I will look forward to that." If the situation changes, stop looking forward to it-- problem solved! Doesn't warrant a phone call to customer service.

Nice to see how you ignored my comparison to the bitching over The Restoration Project (scroll down the forum - my topic alone has about 70 pages of codexers bitching about how long that has taken) - that has had FAR more complaints about slow progress, and they AREN'T EVEN CHARGING MONEY! You should go start flaming the guys criticising Team Giska if you think development time isn't a legitimate point to bitch about.

Secondly, I've said it before and I've said it again - I don't see why you'd think calling someone 'faggot' is an insult. I'm happily married these days, but I'm pretty open about the fact that I used to go both ways before I met my wife. If you want to flirt with me like that, then fine - I'm great at the whole dirty sex talk thing, but could you at least have the decency to include a photo of you masturbating or something? It's been a while since I had gay sex, and it's hard to get into the headspace for roleplaying it without some visual stimulation.

Thirdly, thanks for the tl;dr comment. There are few better praises than when some ADD kiddie acknowledges his comparative inferiority.
 
Joined
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Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
Imbecile said:
Azrael the cat said:
bhlaab said:
Why do you think you're owed anything at this point?

If the game comes out, either buy it or don't. That's the entirety of your power as a consumer.

Why does his complaining about a game imply that he thinks he's owed anything?

I thought he was complaining that the game wasn't released yet, which kinda implies he thinks he (or maybe the world in general) is owed the game. If pre-order cash had been paid then I could perhaps understand some level of anger, but as far as I know, nothing has been paid.

I do see your point there - but again, didn't we already settle that discussion on the thread about Team Gizka, where 2 or 3 of the folk from The Restoration Project forums came over and said 'how dare you Codexers complain about how long this development is taking! Team Gizka don't owe you anything!', and then about 4/5 of the Codex's regular posters filled 70ish pages with posts mocking the idea that we shouldn't be complaining about development time for a product that we hadn't paid any $$ for, and that Team Gizka were working on for free. I might have agreed with you, but the consensus in favour of 'mocking-Team-Gizka-for-taking-forever-to-produce-something-that-we-weren't-paying-them-for' was quite enormous.

It's that double-standard that I'm complaining about. Hell, I don't even think that the OP was correct in saying that AoD is taking too long - rpgs have long development cycles in any event, and they seem to have taylored an engine in that time (for Annie and Mitsoda to be using it), maybe not from scratch, but at least they've taken it from a generic game engine and made it their own. First products often have long development time as well. A 4-5 year development cycle for a first product rpg isn't as odd as the OP suggests. And as I mentioned earlier, the developers themselves aren't taking the 'how dare you bitch about our game' attitude (though I find VD's willingness to defend his forum-posters a bit amusing), and for that matter they've been conscipuously moderate in their criticism of Bioware and Bethesda - they aren't demanding a double standard, and so I don't see why others are.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,878,376
Location
Djibouti
Azrael the cat said:

I don't believe the situation with Team Gizka and AoD is comparable or at least not entirely. The only thing they have in common is the horrendously long development time and constant delaying of various things. But, while Team Gizka keeps doing *nothing at all*, and just churns out 'DONE WHEN IT'S DONE, GTFO!', not to mention that cock Dashus even has the nerve to write stuff like 'Not working on it anymore 'cause I'm having sex :smug: ', ITS actually keeps putting out screenshots or videos from time to time (which is definitely more than changing the bugcount from 30 to 29), they listen to suggestions, discuss the features they want to put in AoD etc etc.

Heck, even if it's all one big vapourware hoax (unlikely), they sure manage to keep an 'illusion of work' better than TG.
 

almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,549
Silellak said:
They are far more open about their development process than most other studios I've seen.

Yeah, that's why I don't get about all of this. I've seen a ton of indie titles show up, disappear for a while, then reappear. Others just kind of have the "it's done when it's done attitude", with a couple of screen shots released every few months/years. Oscar just gave a new combat video because someone on the forum asked; Vince always says exactly what they are working on and posts internal feedback on the board. The complaints have been a bit...confusing.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
Darth Roxor said:
Azrael the cat said:

I don't believe the situation with Team Gizka and AoD is comparable or at least not entirely. The only thing they have in common is the horrendously long development time and constant delaying of various things. But, while Team Gizka keeps doing *nothing at all*, and just churns out 'DONE WHEN IT'S DONE, GTFO!', not to mention that cock Dashus even has the nerve to write stuff like 'Not working on it anymore 'cause I'm having sex :smug: ', ITS actually keeps putting out screenshots or videos from time to time (which is definitely more than changing the bugcount from 30 to 29), they listen to suggestions, discuss the features they want to put in AoD etc etc.

Heck, even if it's all one big vapourware hoax (unlikely), they sure manage to keep an 'illusion of work' better than TG.

Also, VD and co. are actually making a new game from the ground up. TG are just making a mod for a game that has been out for 4 or 5 years now. I feel a bit stupid for trying to compare the two.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Azrael the cat said:
Why does his complaining about a game imply that he thinks he's owed anything?

If Oblivion has awful writing, shitty gameplay and is an abomination to rpgs, then either buy it or don't. That's the entirety of your power as a consumer.

If Dragon Age is looking like a creepy Japanese dating sim, then either buy it or don't. That's the entirety of your power as a consumer.

On that logic we should stop complaining about any video games ever - after all Todd Howard and D Gaider don't owe us to make the kind of game we'd like, so we'd better take our nasty comments and keep them to ourselves!
Well, first, neither Bio nor Beth nor any other company owes anything to anyone. I don't remember anyone ever saying that Bioware simply must do things a certain way because it's their duty and an obligation.

Second, there is a difference, like I said, between constructive criticism of features and design elements and whining that a game isn't out yet. Do I really have to explain that to you?

And if we're looking to distinguish between complaining about development time and complaining about features, well sorry but we've already got a precedent on that - my topic on the The Restoration Project is almost 70 pages now, mostly filled with comments like the OPs mocking the TSLRP's forum fanboys for making posts almost identical to those here and on the ITS forums. Maybe our behaviour regarding TSLRP might, just might, be why trolls are saying the exact same things regarding another indie project with an aversion to giving firm release dates? Hmm?
:facepalm:

TSLRP is a fucking mod that's taking forever without any apparent progress. AoD is a game developed from scratch and there are weekly/monthly updates in form of screenshots, animations, and videos.

The biggest issue with TSLRP isn't the long time, which is kinda ridiculous, because it's just a mod and not many people would bother reinstalling KOTOR 2 just to play it with an extra area and extra dialogues here and there, but because of the elitist attitude and the cult of self-importance. Even though they started beta-testing 2 years ago, they refuse to release it to the general public because when they do, the cult will be over and people will start moving on.

We started beta-testing a month ago or so. Today we'll give the demo to a larger group of people, if it goes well, it will be out in 2-3 weeks. See the difference?

Well, the people who posted after him saying 'it's an independent developer and he's doing it on his own time' looked stupid...
How so? They merely explained an obvious thing. I've already addressed this point, but you decided to ignore it.

... as a causal explanation yes, it probably is the reason why development is taking a while (though not an unusal amount, for a game of that type - I'm attacking the nature of the posts defending the game, not the game development itself), but that's about as relevant as saying 'Todd Howard has no talent, it's not his fault his game is crap'. Sure it's probably true...
Then what's your point?

but from a consumer's viewpoint I couldn't care less whether a game was made by an indie company or crapped out by the magic rpg fairy
When it comes to gameplay. IF someone was criticizing the quality, saying "wow, is this game a buggy piece of shit or what?", then "well, it's an indie developer who worked in his spare time!!! give him a break!!!" comments would have been idiotic.

If someone says 'gee, this game is taking a long time', and others go 'but it's an indie developer', the proper response of hte OP should have been to say 'yes, that's exactly what I said. It's an indie developer, therefore my cynicism is more likely to be justified, because it's a small team, working in their spare time, and things will come up and get in the way'.
And? I understand that some people are having doubts and think that the game will never be released and if released, it will most likely suck, etc, but I wouldn't expect to see them on my forum, sharing their doubts and expecting to be reassured that the game will be released eventually. Surely, there are better ways to spend time on the internet?

This is an rpg site, and a rather caustic one, dedicated mainly to shredding rpgs for their failings, or perceived failings, even before they are released. See the discussion of Dragon Age and Alpha Protocol for examples. The developers of those games don't 'owe' us anything, anymore than VD does. Yet criticism of those games has gone so far as to include ongoing personal abuse of the designers themselves, and no-one blinks an eye.
They should though. I liked the Codex more when Dave Gaider was dropping by regularly to reply to criticism, then when the criticism was replaced with "lol at Gaider", no? The Codex was at its best when it managed to engage many developers in dialogue.

Hell, it's more common for Codexers to post 'mock' Bethesda-fanboy postings in caps saying 'what does Bioware owe you, if you don't liek Dragon Age go maek your own game lol!' - mocking the very idea that someone should question the reasonableness of criticisng game development for not matching the posters' tastes. And quite rightly so.
Once again, you're confusing constructive criticism with claims developers owe something to someone or whining that some game you really want to play now hasn't been released.

And if AoD should be excepted from criticism because 'it's an inde project', then so should Oblivion and FO3 because 'Todd just doesn't have talent'.
Jesus... what are you talking about? Who the fuck is talking about excepting AoD from criticism? It's like you've had some imaginary conversation in your head and now posting your thoughts on it here.

People should either stop calling people butthurt for making demands of AD, or start calling everyone butthurt for making demands of Bethesda/Bioware/Obsidian. Again, I'm not saying that the OP's criticism was correct....
Then don't compare it with constructive criticism of other games.

rpgs take a long time to make, even for fully staffed companies, and the best sign that it isn't vapourware is annie and Mitsoda assocaiting themselves with ITS and using the ITS engine. It's the reaction to the criticism that is shite - that instead of simply engaging in debate over rpg development (what this site is for), people are questioning the OPs right to bitch about the game or its developers.
They are questioning his right to claim that he has the right to whine about the game not being released yet.

But if people want to discuss game quality while the game is still in development, then by all means they should be free to do so without getting flamed for it - after all, we've already thoroughly mocked the idea of 'waiting til we've tried the game' for every other rpg in development, why should this one be any different?
:facepalm:
 

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