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Black Desert - Korean MMO - Tent cities, conservating clothing, Oh my

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
Well, one of the things that takes a lot of the blame is the high bandwidth, high-stability internet connection that most people get to enjoy nowadays. You no longer need to compensate for shit latency etc with various workarounds, and pseudo-rt combat, now you can actually have your combat be real-time without high ping fucking you over.

Naturally, this encourages the devs to go to reflex side of thing. So there ya go.
 

BlackAdderBG

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Because as we know all action games are just button mashers... There is probably more to combat mechanics like in good action games.

We are talking about MMOs here not actual decent action games.

Well, one of the things that takes a lot of the blame is the high bandwidth, high-stability internet connection that most people get to enjoy nowadays. You no longer need to compensate for shit latency etc with various workarounds, and pseudo-rt combat, now you can actually have your combat be real-time without high ping fucking you over.

Naturally, this encourages the devs to go to reflex side of thing. So there ya go.

So the old meme ,tech wasn't on par so that why RPGs were TB.:lol: In case of the mmos I can see that,but doesn't mean I like the way it's going.
 
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Martius

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
1,058
Of course combat maybe be crap since its mmo, hard to tell just by watching videos. For sure it faster than and so far I heard a lot positives opinions about combat itself. I wouldn't mind such type a gameplay as different option because I am tired of most games copying World of Warcraft combat.
 

damager

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Messages
380
The first 5 quests were literary talk to this NPC about this. The next 5 quests were literary kill this mob 5 times. I kid you not. All this with little intersections of offputting boring cutcenes everytime I spoke to an NPC. It was the worst I have ever seen in an MMORPG. But than again I didn't play any asian Stuff in the last ten years.

I wouldn't mind some fast paced Hellgate London like action. The problem is the mobs are standing around until you attack them. Then you throw on your combo on them and they die. In the first 12 levels I played they didn't have a any chance to fight back. I didn't pop a potion the hole time. I just spammed along. Might be different later, but if a game starts like that I am not really inclined to play further.

My friend told me the stuff you can do besides combat is actually really cool. The housing and crafting stuff. You can even employ people and build up some kind of company. Did sound interesting. But I am a combat guy I guess.

My optimal MMORPG would be a game with the same graphic style, but with classical RPG like quests and dungeons, so hard that you would be forced to group or grind up XP to solo them. Also synergie and class play should be a thing. Not everybody needs to be a damage dealer. I don't get whats the appeal to play a shitty action game, quiet in your corner along side thousands of people doing the same mindless grind without any interaction besides PVP. When I asked my friend to group he said there is no point at all in doing so. And he was right, I twoshot everything anyway in like one second.
 
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Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
This works like most KMMO in relation to aggro, meaning if you outlevel the mobs they will stand around and do nothing, if are about the same level as they are, they attack you ... you dont notice that in the starting area because I think they set mobs to be passive even if you are the same level but that is not going to last for long, lv 12 is srill within the starting area level.

Quests are the same MMO old mostly even if I had one that was driving a mining cart that mean having to play minigame, there might be some variation but really, simple works best on a MMO.

Your optimal MMO is not going to happen because simply that a even more annoying version of WoW back in the damn, people are fed up with XP farming (BDO also requires doing that, believe me when I was lv15 and having to do lv17 quests because I followed the Quest Log Trail) and Raid Hard have gone out of fashion, people want to play a MMO were the end game is not a endless grind, this actually gives me some hope for mankind because the Raiding Grind was a fine example of a exercise in futility.
 

Kjaska

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Nov 23, 2015
Messages
1,493
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Germoney
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I was looking forward to this, but all the evidence is pointing towards this meeting the same fate as ArcheAge. Decent enough game buttfucked by a greedy, scummy, incompetent western publisher and made unenjoyable for anybody but a whale.
 

Stokowski

Arcane
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
4,586
Location
Gehenna
It's B2P ×2. First you buy the game. Then you buy inventory slots so you can actually play the game.

(NB: extra inventory slots are also granted as quest rewards, but at nowhere near a rate that makes the game truly playable.)

It could survive though. It doesn't appear as inherently flawed in its mechanics as Archeage, but it's early days yet, and there are a bunch of weird mechanics. Dunno how the PvP shit will work.

It's very grindy, but the grind is mostly fun (especially combat).

I've been online since '96 and I've never experienced a community so overrun with utter fuckwads as this. Get a good guild, or play with friends, otherwise the cuntishness everywhere will melt braincells.

The interface is OK, but the GUI itself is a fucking disaster (like so many Asian-sourced MMOs) with disparate design elements cluttered all over the fucking place and next to no options to clear shit up.

NPC dialogue is terribad, much as you'd expect from some Korean bullshit Babelfished with the "non-sequitur" setting maxed out. Doesn't seriously impair understanding though, it's just lazy/stupid on the part of the Western release team.

The game is no use if making waifu chars with massive tits is your thing. Porcelain doll waifus are fine.
 

Idiott

Arcane
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
490
Location
Potatoland
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Saark

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
2,235
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
So I've played for about 40 hours now, here's my take on it (TL;DR at the end):

First of all to whoever thinks you need to spend money for inventory slots: You're a moron. Items stack with themselves except for equipment and trade goods, each item takes one slot and you get like 25 of them in the first 2-3 hours of gameplay. Vendors are on literally every other corner and apart from getting money you don't really need any of the dropped items anyway except for very rare materials. You also have storage in every major and minor city (which is not shared).
The game world and its content is quite large, I'd actually say its fucking huge and the sheer amount of quests will overwhelm you. It is for all intents and purposes a sandbox MMO, in the truest sense. If you suffer from OCD or want to 100% the content, its gonna take years. Literally.

The whole concept already manifests itself when you look at how the levelling progession goes. Very few quests actually grant XP, most of them rewarding you with some other kind of "currency". 99% of the experience you gain will be by killing mobs. Doing so during night (each day lasts 4 hours realtime) will increase the XP gained by 200% but the monsters will also hit harder. Up until level 50 it will take about 30minutes to an hour of pure grinding per level up. Once you hit 50 it will take about 15-20hours of pure grinding to gain one level. If you die, you lose a huge chunk of XP, so dying is a no-no if you want to actually progress past 50. This goes on until around level 55, once you hit that it would take a couple of weeks/months to even gain a single level, at least with the content currently available. Gear has no requirement so none of this really matters all too much except for the level requirement of upgrading skills.

Apart from player XP there are three other major mechanics that you gain experience in that enhance your gameplay in certain ways: Skillpoints, Energy and Contribution. A short sumnmary on what each of them do:
Skills come in a variety of choices, most of which have multiple ranks. The combat is very fluent and based on chaning your abilities together so you can take advantage of back-attacks or knockdowns. I won't go into detail about the combat since you can just check it out on youtube/twitch if you feel like doing so. You get access to almost all skills at rank 1 before you hit level 20 and can earn skillpoints by doing quests, leveling up or simply grinding monsters. Every skill and the respective rank upgrades require you to have a certain level and also require skillpoints to be spent. By the time you hit lvl 50 you usually earn around 500 skill points which enables you to skill about a third of all possible skillranks. You usually stick to a bunch of spells/abilities you like and max them once they become available, eventually you can max all of them.
Energy is quite simple, it works similar to every generic browsergame energy mechanic. You gain one every 3 minutes on characters that are logged in, and one every 30 minutes when you are offline. You spend it on a lot of actions in game, be it gathering resources, investigating stuff for quests or hiring workers/processing materials etc.
Contribution is earned by doing quests and enables you to build your own little imperium. The world map is basically divided into a shitload of nodes which can be anything from towns, gathering spots or certain quest areas. You can "activate" these nodes by spending Contribution (and further enhance them by spending energy), which then gets reserved until you withdraw your contribution. Wanna build a trade route from one town to another? Link them via a bunch of smaller ones or you don't get any profit off of it. Want your workers to gather that iron-deposit? You will need to have all nodes linked from the node to whatever town your workers were hired in. Even buying workshops/lodgings for your workers require you to spend contribution, you can withdraw it whenver you want though.

Combat really is the weakest point of the game anyway. Most of the other stuff is done in a well thought-out sandbox. Crafting is mostly done by hiring workers that gather resources, refine those resources and eventually craft them into items. Some parts of this chain can be done by the player, but it costs energy to do so and workers are simply more efficient especially once they levelled up after doing these tasks for a while. To do any of this you will use your contribution and energy to set up your own manufacturing process. Hire a bunch of workers, provide them with lodgings, connect nodes for them to gather resources from, have them store these resources in the aforementioned storage, provide them with workshops. Every worker has a limited amount of tasks he can perform before he runs out of stamina, so will eventually have to refill his stamina. Doing so requires food/drinks which you can either buy or craft yourself. Which requires you to set up another chain of production, which requires more contribution/energy to start with etc. None of this is automated though, you can only set up a certain amount of queues but you will often have to micromanage this stuff. If you actually invest time into doing this you could easily sell the items on the market to make money. Some of the craftable items will still require materials that are only obtained by killing monsters (and refining these materials multiple times via the dozens of different processing options).

You can ofcourse forego all of this shit and just buy stuff off the auction house, which requires you to get a decent amount of cash. You can grind monsters, which will take a lot of time, craft shit and sell it or use the trade system that is in the game. Most major cities have a trade manager that sells certain trade items at a lower than base price, which you can sell in other cities for a profit. These weigh a shit ton though so you either carry them one by one which is really dumb, rent an NPC to transport it for you or just build your own caravan or ship to move it yourself. Wagons/Ships can carry a bunch of them and depending on the distance (you still need to connect all the nodes from one city to another via Contribution) you can make a considerable amount of cash each day. Your ships/transports can be attacked by bandits though, haven't had that happen to me yet so I cannot tell you how that works.

All of this basically means that if you want to be the best goddamn blacksmith on the server you don't really have to do a lot of grinding monsters. You can easily do that by staying level 20-30 and set up your trade/manufacturing emporium, there is so many goddamn quests that grant Contribution that you can easily get to 200+ in the first 20 levels. Want to breed horses all day every day? Go catch a bunch of tier1/2 horses, level them up by riding them around then breed them to gain higher tier horses and sell those for cash. Or go play farmville by buying seeds, growing them and harvesting them so you can either cook them into food to sell, eat yourself or just sell the raw materials or do whatever the fuck else you wanna to because you can. Watch a movie on the big screen while grinding monsters like a retarded maniac for hours straight because it is nighttime and do your crafting during the day.



TL;DR: All in all it is an actually well made sandbox especially for crafting/trading/dicking around, which obviously has a lot of flaws but the whole underlying system is really good. The reallife cash shop is bullshit and way too expensive but people still seem to spend money (I spent all my pre-order points on buying goddamn cats that meow at me every couple of seconds and loot shit so I dont have to press R 200 times a minute). The UI is horrible but once you get the hang of it it won't really bother you too much, it takes some time to get used to though. Upgrading gear/leveling up barely changes the way you look, you will run into hundreds of people that have the same basic look you do except for the part that you can change during character creation (which in itself is fucking ridiculous and could probably be licensed to any VR porn publisher). For 30 bucks I have already gotten my moneys worth and I have barely scratched the surface, I certainly did not expect to find a decent crafting/trading sim game in a korean MMO. Mechanics are convoluted as fuck though, explaining the whole amity system takes pages and pages of formulas and other shit alone. If anyone wants to check up on certain mechanics they can use this guide, it is a little outdated but should be in depth enough to give anyone a general idea on how everything in this game works.
 
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Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
I was looking forward to this, but all the evidence is pointing towards this meeting the same fate as ArcheAge. Decent enough game buttfucked by a greedy, scummy, incompetent western publisher and made unenjoyable for anybody but a whale.

You dont need to pay, the really important stuff that is contribution and energy its not something you can buy in the store.

The biggest flaw is this is F2P game being sold as B2P with a 50% discount over the Korean store prices, they did stuff to remove gold sellers since in Korea you can sell costumes on the auction house, in EU/NA you cannot ... the core mechanics its not something you can bypass by using the stores since they are, amazing enough, not monetized ... no way to gain more energy, no way to get more contribution ... no way to speed production.

Also this is a game that really helps with Alts since so much stuff is shared, like Amity, Knowledge, Warehouse, Stable ... in most games having a Alt is pretty a more work multiplier but in here it doesnt seem so.
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
If any of you want to part with a guest key you might have I would take one to test it. I know a few people who would like to play an mmo together again but I wont shell out 30 blind again like i did with a few other games in the past that were shit (gw2 for example)
 

Saark

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
2,235
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Two hints that may save you a lot of troubles:
1. Pressing CTRL lets you use the cursor freely without having to open any other interface window
2. You will want to manually check the questlog boxes for whatever types of quest you want to be shown, as explained in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfatsrHdEMo
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
Two hints that may save you a lot of troubles:
1. Pressing CTRL lets you use the cursor freely without having to open any other interface window
2. You will want to manually check the questlog boxes for whatever types of quest you want to be shown, as explained in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfatsrHdEMo

Thanks, I will watch a few videos either way. I am notoriously undecisive when it comes to picking a class and have to check them out first. Iam not even sure if all classes are in the western release.
 

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
Not all, there is no Kunoichi, Ninja, Blader or Plum ... those werent available in the Korean release either, originally there was only Warrior, Ranger, Sorceress and Berserker.

Classes are gender locked and race locked, Berserker are Giant as ranger are Elf, Valkyrie is naturally female locked and not exactly a exact counterpart of Warrior but its close, there is no male counterpart of Tamer and Ranger were Witch and Wizard are pretty much exactly the same and the only classes with a male and female option.
 

Stokowski

Arcane
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
4,586
Location
Gehenna
I have one 7-day free pass to offer if any other Codexian is demented enough to want to try it out.
 

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