Wizardry Dabbling in Wizardry 8, want to dive in

[General_Norris]

First, sorry if creating a whole thread for this is not proper etiquette.

After some time fiddling with the first Wizardry games, I decided to sit down and play Wizardry 8 instead because the concensus is that it's the best (or at least one of the best) games in the series. So I did the usual dumb stuff like toggling on Ironman and getting killed by the infamous bandits of the road the Codex warns players about.

So I'm going to try again and see if I do better this time. Some questions:

1) Is there any reason to not dump points on the same stats (Say, Strenght) until you max them?
2) My Identify spell fizzles a lot, should I risk wearing stuff I haven't identified or it's better to wait until I know what everything is?
3) Is there a real incentive to fully explore a dungeon? I'm told the game scales enemies to it doesn't seem worthwhile.
4) My mage killed herself early on and I had no way to resurrect her until I was on the road getting killed by bandits. How can I obtain some resurrections scrolls or something similar?
5) I blew up the computers in the Monastery by "overcooking" them and the glass shattered, but nothing else seemed to change. What am I missing?
6) Any tips to deal with the bandits? I didn't expect them to be so tough because I beat a group of them early on and the level warning just said it was a "fair fight".
EDIT 7) Where can I download the fast combat mod? I googled it but most of the links are dead and there seems to be at least two different ones.
EDIT 8) I've played a fair bit of RPGs, but not a dungeon crawler. Should I play on Expert? What does it actually entail?

I'm really enjoying this game, didn't expect to like a dungeon crawler after so many hours of wasting my life on games filled meaningless enemies that are never a threat.

Thanks in advance

 

[DraQ]

1) Is there any reason to not dump points on the same stats (Say, Strenght) until you max them?

Well, it does have the benefit of letting you unlock expert skills early, so you can go for it.

2) My Identify spell fizzles a lot, should I risk wearing stuff I haven't identified or it's better to wait until I know what everything is?

It's up to you to decide.

Most of cursed items are awesome in some regards but many can also rape the user in painful ways other than mere inability to equip something else. Those ways do include death.
Non-cursed items - well, if you don't mind having to experiment to have any clues about what they do and what stats do they have.
Of course, the only way to determine if an unidentified item is cursed without identifying it is equipping it.

3) Is there a real incentive to fully explore a dungeon?

Finding stuff is and has always been the only valid motivation for exploring.

4) My mage killed herself early on and I had no way to resurrect her until I was on the road getting killed by bandits. How can I obtain some resurrections scrolls or something similar?

Resurrection powders. They are mostly obtained by exploring (at least early in game and/or if you don't want to pay).

5) I blew up the computers in the Monastery by "overcooking" them and the glass shattered, but nothing else seemed to change. What am I missing?

If you mean the microwave, you're missing the item that fell out.
You may be meaning another thing, but I'm not telling unless confirmed. In either case you're missing something.

6) Any tips to deal with the bandits? I didn't expect them to be so tough because I beat a group of them early on and the level warning just said it was a "fair fight".

Usual stuff. Don't get surrounded, manage your formation, use chokepoints if available, use disabling spells and spells in general smartly. Use protective spells if you have some. Use throwable items and scrolls if you really need an edge (mind you, they are skill dependent and spilling concussion powder all over yourself at low level is messy, so is accidentally incinerating the entire party with a cherrybomb). Run before you get into combat if you don't think you can take it - running while in combat is tedious and may turn out worse than just standing your ground (you may just end up dying tired).

Also if you're still playing ironman I eagerly await the moment you first encounter Rynjinn.

EDIT 8) I've played a fair bit of RPGs, but not a dungeon crawler. Should I play on Expert? What does it actually entail?

Enemies get bonuses to stuff like resistances and %tohit, party gets penalties. More or less.

I'm really enjoying this game, didn't expect to like a dungeon crawler after so many hours of wasting my life on games filled meaningless enemies that are never a threat.

It's a really nice crawler, if a bit too heavy on combat encounters. It could have done without level scaling but at least it isn't nearly as obnoxious as Oblivion about it (or about everything else).

 

[Dorateen]

Wizardry 8 makes more sense, and is better appreciated, if you play Crusaders of the Dark Savant first.

 

[DraQ]

Wizardry 8 makes more sense, and is better appreciated, if you play Crusaders of the Dark Savant first.

I still need to play the 6-7-8 trilogy, TBH.

Does anyone have a functioning link to wizfast for OP?

 

[thexspr]

http://www.zimlab.com/wizardry/zip/Wiz8Fast.zip still there, kudos to guy who keeps it and flamestryke's sites running.

 

[Zdzisiu]

http://www.zimlab.com/wizardry/zip/Wiz8Fast.zip still there, kudos to guy who keeps it and flamestryke's sites running.

Yeah, the whole flamestryke portal was a shitload of help when I was playing through Wiz 8 and Might and Magic VII and VIII.

 

[Ashenai]

Wizardry 8 is one of my favorite games to play on Ironman. It's very difficult (on Expert), but it always gives you a chance. It feels fair, and clever tactics (and knowing when to run) are invaluable.

There are, however, exactly two places where the level seams are bugged and it is possible to fall through the map, which is an instant party wipe. I don't know if the latest patch fixed these (I know exactly where they are so I avoid them), but if it hasn't, you should look up where these two places are. One is in the Lower Monastery (the starting map) next to a crate, and the other one is at the base of a cliff in Lower Trynton.

Other than that, have fun! It's a fantastic game.

 

[GlutenBurger]

Draq pretty much covered it. Regarding the Monastery in particular, the answer to #4 also answers #3. The Trynnie in the Monastery usually has some resurrection items in stock, too, in a pinch.

 

[treborSux]

Wizardry 8 makes more sense, and is better appreciated, if you play Crusaders of the Dark Savant first.

Wizardry 8 will be a bittersweet disappointment if you're comparing it to 6 and 7. All missing from Wizardry 8 was Bradley's puzzles and charm, and you're left with the Rattkin Razuka with guido accents and the T'Rang disney'd into total pussies.

On it's own Wiz 8 is a decent game, but if you're looking for a companion piece to Wiz 6 and 7, the silly bugfest of Wizards and Warriors is better.

 

[Ashenai]

All missing from Wizardry 8 was Bradley's puzzles and charm, and you're left with the Rattkin Razuka with guido accents and the T'Rang disney'd into total pussies.

Eh. Just like how comedy is tragedy + time, I think charm is often just awkwardness + time. I remember all the Danes randomly fucking in the middle of the dungeon to be charming because I was just a kid when I first played it, but really it was pretty damn stupid. Al-Sedexus was way more interesting.

Overall, I feel like Wiz8 was a worthy successor to the series, story-wise. I think I like Wiz7's combat more, because having to wedge myself into corners all the time got really old in Wiz8 (I think Wiz7's abstraction of tactical movement is better suited to blob combat). But the story was just fine, if just as excruciatingly slow.

Wiz7's puzzles were better though, there's no denying that.

 

[General_Norris]

If you mean the microwave, you're missing the item that fell out.
You may be meaning another thing, but I'm not telling unless confirmed. In either case you're missing something.

Ah, just got it! There was a room with some items behind a glass wall, which is destroyed once you destroy the machine in the room locked behind key. I totally forgot to check that one.

I started another game with the same party and my Mage got killed before making it to level three again, so I really have to go get those resurrection powders. I wonder if I should have increased her Vitality a bit more.

Also if you're still playing ironman I eagerly await the moment you first encounter Rynjinn.

I started the game with it disabled because I can totally picture myself getting a total party kill after playing the game for 50 hours and giving up on the game. I'm still going to play as if it were on, though.

Wizardry 8 makes more sense, and is better appreciated, if you play Crusaders of the Dark Savant first.

I would, but I don't think I have the drive to spend two hundred hours on Wizardry. That's just too big of an investment for me to make when there are so many other games I want to play. The chances I might end up ditching Wizardry 8 halfway through for that reason are already very high so adding more gametime just seems greedy to me.


Thanks a lot for yours help. And thanks a lot for the link to the combat mod, the game is ten times better now that combat is so fast.

 

[Dorateen]

Wizardry 8 makes more sense, and is better appreciated, if you play Crusaders of the Dark Savant first.

Wizardry 8 will be a bittersweet disappointment if you're comparing it to 6 and 7. All missing from Wizardry 8 was Bradley's puzzles and charm, and you're left with the Rattkin Razuka with guido accents and the T'Rang disney'd into total pussies.

On it's own Wiz 8 is a decent game, but if you're looking for a companion piece to Wiz 6 and 7, the silly bugfest of Wizards and Warriors is better.

Wizardry 8 is the conclusion of the Dark Savant saga, and if you take into consideration the impact of the Cosmic Forge and a cameo by a certain NPC, then a 6 to 8 run makes perfect sense. I said nothing about 8 being a better game than CotDS, far from it. Nevertheless, the first time a player meets ol' bubble-head in the swamp, it would evoke a more cohesive and visceral reaction if one already tangled with him and had been left off in ten year cliff hanger.

 

[DraQ]

If you mean the microwave, you're missing the item that fell out.
You may be meaning another thing, but I'm not telling unless confirmed. In either case you're missing something.

Ah, just got it! There was a room with some items behind a glass wall, which is destroyed once you destroy the machine in the room locked behind key. I totally forgot to check that one.

There's more to it than that, if it rings the bell*.

*

See what I did there?

I started another game with the same party and my Mage got killed before making it to level three again, so I really have to go get those resurrection powders. I wonder if I should have increased her Vitality a bit more.

Don't ask me, I'm more of a glass cannon kind of person.

I started the game with it disabled because I can totally picture myself getting a total party kill after playing the game for 50 hours and giving up on the game. I'm still going to play as if it were on, though.

Ironman is more of a later playthrough mode (really, there is no point NOT playing it ironman after finishing it once).
It adds a lot to the game by completely changing its dynamics and impact of partial failure states, but playing blind you can pretty much count on TPK at some point.
Successfully ironmanning this game blind would definitely earn the player a lot of respect here.

 

[Ashenai]

Ah, just got it! There was a room with some items behind a glass wall, which is destroyed once you destroy the machine in the room locked behind key. I totally forgot to check that one.

You're actually missing one more effect of those bells. It's tricky.

I started another game with the same party and my Mage got killed before making it to level three again, so I really have to go get those resurrection powders. I wonder if I should have increased her Vitality a bit more.

Nah. Are you using formations properly? Keep the squishy mages in the center, they'll get attacked a lot less. And don't forget that you can change formation mid-combat. Formation changes will only take effect at the end of combat rounds, but they're "free", you can shift your characters around without sacrificing any actions. Keep the squishy people away from melee mobs!

Unless she got killed by Gregor, of course. On Expert, Gregor can just randomly kill a party member with no recourse if he gets lucky with his attack rolls and target selection. The other Monastery fights should be doable without anyone dying, though.

I started the game with it disabled because I can totally picture myself getting a total party kill after playing the game for 50 hours and giving up on the game. I'm still going to play as if it were on, though.

Yeah this is a good way to go about it.

 

[TigerKnee]

Since leveling up is completely controlled by the player, you can explore and kill every single enemy that you like and they'll never scale to your level until you actually go into the menu to level your characters

 

[DraQ]

Ah, just got it! There was a room with some items behind a glass wall, which is destroyed once you destroy the machine in the room locked behind key. I totally forgot to check that one.

You're actually missing one more effect of those bells. It's tricky.

At least two more.

Nah. Are you using formations properly? Keep the squishy mages in the center, they'll get attacked a lot less.

I usually opt for mages in the back, frontlines on the flanks and center and empty point. Call it hollow point formation 'cause it deals more damage.

Fails badly against exteneded range attackers, with few characters in the party or when at risk of being surrounded.

 

[Ashenai]

Since leveling up is completely controlled by the player, you can explore and kill every single enemy that you like and they'll never scale to your level until you actually go into the menu to level your characters

This is hard to exploit, though, since (thankfully) level scaling in Wiz8 is capped on both ends. Yeah if you're level 8 on Arnika Road you'll get harder enemies than if you're level 5, but if you're level 2 you'll still get massacred, and if you're level 15 it'll still be a cakewalk. Each area has a "band" of level scaling about 5 levels wide; if you're outside that band in either direction, the enemies won't scale up or down any further. I actually kinda like the system (heresy, I know) because it lets you explore the world in a somewhat nonlinear fashion, but you still can't do the Oblivion thing and rush straight to the endgame, or keep the enemies pathetic by staying level 1 the whole game.

Also, only wandering monsters scale. There are a lot of powerful preplaced enemies that do not scale at all and serve as gear/level checks.

 

[General_Norris]

You're actually missing one more effect of those bells. It's tricky.

There's a lot of tricky stuff in the game, I know those caves at the beginning give you clues towards something I haven't found yet.

Nah. Are you using formations properly? Keep the squishy mages in the center, they'll get attacked a lot less. And don't forget that you can change formation mid-combat. Formation changes will only take effect at the end of combat rounds, but they're "free", you can shift your characters around without sacrificing any actions. Keep the squishy people away from melee mobs!

If I recall correctly, this is my main formation right now:

Front: Empty
Right: Priest
Center: Fighter, Ninja
Left: Valkyrie
Back: Mage, Bard

Unless she got killed by Gregor, of course. On Expert, Gregor can just randomly kill a party member with no recourse if he gets lucky with his attack rolls and target selection. The other Monastery fights should be doable without anyone dying, though

She killed herself against Gregor the first time after her max power fire spell backfired. It was a really fun battle though!

The second time, she just got hit twice by a ranged attack and she died.



Still, I'm really enjoying this game a lot. Let's hope I have a nice evening to make up all my lost progress

 

[Cadmus]

From my virgin playthrough, I'd recommend the highest difficulty that you can stomach. The game becomes easier and easier because your range of tools becomes excessive and you'll be able to deal with a situation in more ways than at the start. The development of power is similar to that of D:OS imo, so if you like the combat system (which I did) do yourself a favour and play on Expert or whatever the hard difficulty is. The game will eventually become too easy anyway and you'll be annoyed with tons of trashmobs but it's the same everywhere. If you dislike the system play on cheesy, obviously.

 

[Zombra]

6) Any tips to deal with the bandits? I didn't expect them to be so tough because I beat a group of them early on and the level warning just said it was a "fair fight".

I'm late to the thread, but I just want to stress one thing: status effects. DraQ briefly touched on it, but inflicting status issues on your enemies is supremely key in W8 combat. If you have your mage casting damage spells, you're doing it wrong; you should be casting sleep spells, web, insanity, blindness, whatever group or area effect spells you can muster. A terrifying dozen bandits bearing down on you with stilettos sharpened become a laughing stock when half of them are blind and another third of them are magically terrified.

 

[Gnidrologist]

The above is true, but one has to consider that at the beginning of the game, monastery/arnika road, about 40% of those spells either fizzle or worse, backfire, because of very low skill level.

I never tried wiz8 in ironman, because you would basically have to restart at least several times from point A just to get past Gregor, who is tough fuck even with party that has couple of tanks in it.

(btw: you ninja fairy players, how did you deal with him and what level is preferable? - i think my next yearly run of wi8 will finally be the famous solo ninja fairy build)

 

[Wizfall]

EDIT 7) Where can I download the fast combat mod? I googled it but most of the links are dead and there seems to be at least two different ones.

http://www.mediafire.com/?yhfg5fkz16ijyj5
Faster combat mod is much MUCH better than wizfast (see the difference in the first post of this thread http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/wizardry-8-enhancements.79581/ )
Highly recommended !

 

[General_Norris]

I'm already finishing the monastery again, this time I explored it far more in depth, meeting the merchant for the first time as well as picking up the resurrection powders at the waterfall. Oh, and my mage isn't dead, making the experience much better all around.

However, I've noticed that the door in Gregor's room that you have to unlock after pressing a button hasn't opened when I pressed the button. Hope it's not a bug and I'm doing something wrong. EDIT: Reloading fixed it :D

I'm late to the thread, but I just want to stress one thing: status effects.

Yeah, this time I'm being more careful with the spells I choose and keeping my mage alive has really helped in that regard because it takes a lot of weight off from the priest's shoulders.

From my virgin playthrough, I'd recommend the highest difficulty that you can stomach. The game becomes easier and easier because your range of tools becomes excessive and you'll be able to deal with a situation in more ways than at the start.

Right now I'm fine with how the game is at normal difficulty so I'm going to reserve Expert mode for later on in the game if I need it.

 

[Dorateen]

(btw: you ninja fairy players, how did you deal with him and what level is preferable? - i think my next yearly run of wi8 will finally be the famous solo ninja fairy build)

I switched the fairy thief into a ninja back in Wizardry 7, and then imported the party into 8. As for what level it was, I don't recall, but probably in the low teens. I know it was as soon as all the minimum stat requirements were met.

Cane of Corpus is the key.

 

[Ashenai]

I never tried wiz8 in ironman, because you would basically have to restart at least several times from point A just to get past Gregor, who is tough fuck even with party that has couple of tanks in it.

This is not true. I play Expert Ironman almost exclusively, and don't think I have ever had Gregor fully wipe my party. Yes, he manages to kill one party member about half the time, and occasionally he even kills two or three. Then he runs out of stamina and dies with a whimper. And if he did manage to kill someone, hey, that's why you have Resurrection Powders.

Expert Ironman can be horribly frustrating, but it's not because of Gregor. It's because of motherfucking Arnika Road fuck shit goddamn I got cornered by a group of Piercer Modai and their Sorceress artillery AGAIN fuck yoooouuuuu.