Dark Souls mouse and keyboard flamewar

[Unkillable Cat]

Try and play Dark Souls 2

Dark Souls 1 failed the "Can a left-handed keyboard+mouse player play this game?"-test, therefore a playthrough of DS2 is unlikely.

 

[Caim]

Try and play Dark Souls 2

Dark Souls 1 failed the "Can a left-handed keyboard+mouse player play this game?"-test, therefore a playthrough of DS2 is unlikely.

Why don't you learn to use KB + M like normal human beings do?

To be fair though KB + M controls in Dark Souls I and II is shit and you should play it with a controller.

 

[sullynathan]

Try and play Dark Souls 2

Dark Souls 1 failed the "Can a left-handed keyboard+mouse player play this game?"-test, therefore a playthrough of DS2 is unlikely.

why don't you play console games with a controller?

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Why don't you learn to use KB + M like normal human beings do?

"Why don't you learn to use a console controller like normal human beings do?"

...

I've been using the same configuration for 25+ years now, you tell someone who's been doing the same thing for that long to change his tune because *reasons* and see what reaction you get.

I don't know which is more offensive, that a developer can't account for people with "minor disabilities* or that mongoloid forum posters think that there's only a one true path of playing a game.

 

[Caim]

"Why don't you learn to use a console controller like normal human beings do?"

...

I've been using the same configuration for 25+ years now, you tell someone who's been doing the same thing for that long to change his tune because *reasons* and see what reaction you get.

I don't know which is more offensive, that a developer can't account for people with "minor disabilities* or that mongoloid forum posters think that there's only a one true path of playing a game.

Your mistake was that you expected sympathy from the codex for lefties.

 

[Jasede]

Why don't you learn to use KB + M like normal human beings do?

"Why don't you learn to use a console controller like normal human beings do?"

...

I've been using the same configuration for 25+ years now, you tell someone who's been doing the same thing for that long to change his tune because *reasons* and see what reaction you get.

I don't know which is more offensive, that a developer can't account for people with "minor disabilities* or that mongoloid forum posters think that there's only a one true path of playing a game.

I don't complain about having to play Star Craft with a mouse either... Or that cars don't have keys and use a steering wheel instead. It has nothing to do with "being used to a configuration." Some devices are only meant to be operated by certain modes of input, and that's that. You don't try to play Typing of the Dead with a mouse and you don't use a steering wheel to play DooM and you don't use a HOTAS to play Far Cry.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Your mistake was that you expected sympathy from the codex for lefties.

Can't argue with that.

I don't complain about having to play Star Craft with a mouse either... Or that cars don't have keys and use a steering wheel instead. It has nothing to do with "being used to a configuration." Some devices are only meant to be operated by certain modes of input, and that's that. You don't try to play Typing of the Dead with a mouse and you don't use a steering wheel to play DooM and you don't use a HOTAS to play Far Cry.

I know you have various (social) issues, but this is the first time I have reason to consider you seriously retarded.

If a game is meant to be played in one particular manner, with one particular controller method in mind, then why bother allowing the option(s) for any other controller method?

Why not just make the game check for an Authentic Input Controller™ and refuse to boot up because "Approved controller not found, please plug in and try again"?

The possibility for people to customize their controls for a game has been around for over 30 years. (That's longer than you have lived, even in furry years.) For developers/publishers to suddenly come forward now and declare "We can't be arsed to allow people to customize controls for their games anymore because we're too stupid to code it in" is a major step backwards in game development.

And yet there are dumbfucks like you whom step up and defend them.

You don't see titles like "Typing of the Dead" released on consoles for obvious reasons, the controls don't allow for it. Yet you're stupid enough to bring it up. Driving games have been around for longer than 30 years, yet not a single one of them has demanded a steering wheel controller, ever. Because unlike you they're not that stupid. The de facto standard controller for a PC is a keyboard and a mouse. That's more than 100 seperate possible inputs. If you intend to release a title on the PC, that is what you aim for. To do otherwise is stupidity.

But the biggest reason that Dark Souls 1 (and various others games I won't bother mentioning) failed this little "test" is because they wouldn't allow every key on the keyboard to be reconfigured...something that Valve overcame more than 10 years ago with Half-Life 2, and every subsequent Source engine game released since then. It's been done, there is no excuse anymore. That's how long every developer on the PC has had to adapt - at least a decade. Yet we have developers that can't be arsed to do that, like EA and Bandai/Namco and far too many indie developers.

 

[Jasede]

I can answer that easily, and my answer certainly doesn't make me retarded:

Because fans like you demanded the game to be released on the PC.

If they had any say in this the game would not even come with a KBouse control scheme. The fact is that fans demanded it. I am not going to blame a console-only developer for making his game, designed for controllers, only properly playable using a controller. There is nothing retarded about this. It's a console game, play it with a console controller. Like i said. You wanting to play it with KBouse is like me trying to drive a car using an airplane flight stick.

Look, if you really care that much, you can use a program to remap keys. But why should you? This game should never have been released on a PC in the first place. I am glad they got more sales from it, but it amuses me to no end that now dumbfucks are crying about not having KBouse optimization when they never wanted the game to be on the PC in the first place. If they had wanted to support that input, they would have designed that game with that in mind. You absolutely underestimate how hard it is to come up with a good control scheme in an action game. Yes, allowing free keybinding would have been easy, and should be in the game. But no, I don't expect them to know this, considering they are a console developer making console games for consoles. This is like going to the Vatican listening to the pope preach and complaining why hes didn't do a Buddhist group meditation. You're calling me retarded when you're the one with unrealistic, silly expectations.

Like, I would see where you are coming from, but your argument makes no sense. It's exactly like I said: what you are trying to do is drive a car with a flight stick, an airplane with a trackball or a motorcycle with a keyboard hammered to the wheel. You can't force an input on a game that it wasn't designed for. Yes, you can offer the option - which they did - but that doesn't mean you can use it or that it's a good idea. It's like playing Starcraft with a controller. Yes, you can, see the N64 version, but you were still expected to buy the mouse peripheral unless you wanted the game to play like shit. You have no right to complain about the input when you are obstinately using the wrong method and then pretending like they should support it, when the game was designed, from the ground up, for a different input method. To redesign the input would mean to redesign the entire game.

I don't know why I have to write so much to make you understand this simple idea:

What you are trying to do is the exact same thing as trying to play Starcraft with a controller. Yes, you can do that, but even though it's supported, the game wasn't meant to be played that way, or designed with a controller in mind. You are not going to have a good time and you'd be wrong to complain about it because nobody in their right mind would expect an RTS to be designed for controllers. Similarly, nobody in their right mind would expect Dark Souls, a console action RPG made for a console, to be designed with Keyboard and Mouse in mind. Why are you calling me retarded when you are the one failing to grasp this undeniably true statement? This isn't even trying to defend Dark Souls or From Software, it's just simple logic.

Edit: Unless your problem is solely because you're left-handed; in that case, well, whatever. Lefties have no soul so I don't really care.

 

[Siveon]

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I can answer that easily, and my answer certainly doesn't make me retarded:

Because fans like you demanded the game to be released on the PC.

If they had any say in this the game would not even come with a KBouse control scheme. The fact is that fans demanded it. I am not going to blame a console-only developer for making his game, designed for controllers, only properly playable using a controller. There is nothing retarded about this. It's a console game, play it with a console controller. Like i said. You wanting to play it with KBouse is like me trying to drive a car using an airplane flight stick.

Look, if you really care that much, you can use a program to remap keys. But why should you? This game should never have been released on a PC in the first place. I am glad they got more sales from it, but it amuses me to no end that now dumbfucks are crying about not having KBouse optimization when they never wanted the game to be on the PC in the first place. If they had wanted to support that input, they would have designed that game with that in mind. You absolutely underestimate how hard it is to come up with a good control scheme in an action game. Yes, allowing free keybinding would have been easy, and should be in the game. But no, I don't expect them to know this, considering they are a console developer making console games for consoles. This is like going to the Vatican listening to the pope preach and complaining why hes didn't do a Buddhist group meditation. You're calling me retarded when you're the one with unrealistic, silly expectations.

Like, I would see where you are coming from, but your argument makes no sense. It's exactly like I said: what you are trying to do is drive a car with a flight stick, an airplane with a trackball or a motorcycle with a keyboard hammered to the wheel. You can't force an input on a game that it wasn't designed for. Yes, you can offer the option - which they did - but that doesn't mean you can use it or that it's a good idea. It's like playing Starcraft with a controller. Yes, you can, see the N64 version, but you were still expected to buy the mouse peripheral unless you wanted the game to play like shit. You have no right to complain about the input when you are obstinately using the wrong method and then pretending like they should support it, when the game was designed, from the ground up, for a different input method. To redesign the input would mean to redesign the entire game.

I don't know why I have to write so much to make you understand this simple idea:

What you are trying to do is the exact same thing as trying to play Starcraft with a controller. Yes, you can do that, but even though it's supported, the game wasn't meant to be played that way, or designed with a controller in mind. You are not going to have a good time and you'd be wrong to complain about it because nobody in their right mind would expect an RTS to be designed for controllers. Similarly, nobody in their right mind would expect Dark Souls, a console action RPG made for a console, to be designed with Keyboard and Mouse in mind. Why are you calling me retarded when you are the one failing to grasp this undeniably true statement? This isn't even trying to defend Dark Souls or From Software, it's just simple logic.

Edit: Unless your problem is solely because you're left-handed; in that case, well, whatever. Lefties have no soul so I don't really care.

Glance at your post above, unedited.

See how many times pops up?

See how many times you didn't even bother to take that into account when making your post?

And you're trying to convince me you're not retarded?

...

Now, low blows aside, let's get down to business:

If they had any say in this the game would not even come with a KB + mouse control scheme. The fact is that fans demanded it. I am not going to blame a console-only developer for making his game, designed for controllers, only properly playable using a controller. There is nothing retarded about this. It's a console game, play it with a console controller.

Says who? You? Do you even have the facts and figures to back this up? In a realm where "appealing to the lowest common denominator" and "spreading out into as many markets as possible" are words to live by? And you dare to presume that someone as big as Bandai/Namco doesn't follow those creeds?

You also seem to be making the quite false assumption that I'm a fan of a developer that favours the consoles in the first place, but I'm gonna leave that one where it is. I've shown an interest in the title, yes, but only after it was released on the PC. My biggest gripe with them was the fact that the game wasn't available in my country...a gripe that is ALL TOO COMMON when dealing with console titles, but is virtually nonexistant when it comes to PC titles.

There is nothing retarded about this. It's a console game, play it with a console controller. Like i said.

This bares repeating for the sheer sake of stupid involved.

Back in the 90s there was a game called Doom. It was first released on the PC, but thereafter released on pretty much every platform in existance back then (and later on a few platforms it was never meant to be on). That includes the consoles. Are you really going to tell me that the same argument applies to that game as well? What about Diablo? That was also released on the consoles, a game that WAS MADE FOR A MOUSE AND A KEYBOARD and is then released on a platform that supports neither instrument? Should I even bother bringing up Command & Conquer?

What about emulators then? Why the fuck would anyone bother to code an emulator for the PC, when they don't support the proper controllers that were mandatory for playing the title on the emulated console in the first place? Because the coders knew what I've known all this time, but you don't seem to understand: The PC can easily emulate a console controller using the keyboard alone...the mouse in this regard is an afterthought, and all that with full customization. Now, with that said...how come a de facto standard that's established roughly 20 years ago doesn't mean jackshit today? Because developers are lazy and incompetent, and they should be called out on it, instead of being defended by dumbfucks.

OK, I may be a bit unfair here, as back then there was a clear divide between consoles and PCs. But the XBox (and the majority of the consoles released in the console generations after that) were made with the intent of allowing conversions between the consoles and the PC to go more smoothly (mostly because the XBox WAS a PC itself). That's "2001" territory right there, almost 15 years ago. Even if we were fair and allowed for the next generation of consoles to roll round before making any statements, we still have roughly a decade of devs/pubs trying to make conversions between the platforms run smoothly, yet some of them just can't seem to grasp the concept of how PCs have the upper hand in terms of controllers...and you stand there defending them?

You absolutely underestimate how hard it is to come up with a good control scheme in an action game.

You sure about these words? Really? I grew up in the 1980s, where a modern-day computer back then gave you a joystick with one fire button, two at the most. That was your control scheme right there, even on the NES. There were plenty of action games back then and they did just fine. Yeah, I'm pulling the Oldfag card here, but I do understand that modern games can be more complex than whatever the 1980s threw at us, but that is no excuse for not allowing for full customization of controls nowadays. They could do it then, why can't they do it now?

Like, I would see where you are coming from, but your argument makes no sense. It's exactly like I said: what you are trying to do is drive a car with a flight stick, an airplane with a trackball or a motorcycle with a keyboard hammered to the wheel.

No, I'm trying to drive a car that was designed with a handlebar in mind, but the manufacturer failed to take into account that almost all car drivers use steering wheels. Whether the steering wheel is on the left in the car or the right should be irrelevant, but here we are, arguing like morons about an open-and-shut case: Either you cater to the preferred control method of the medium, or you don't bother at all.

The rest of your argument is idiotic repetition so I won't bother with it.

 

[hajro]

 

[Neanderthal]

Play Severance: Blade of Darkness instead, as a lefty mesen I can say that keyboard layout wi cursors is fucking tight and really intuitive.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Joined:Nov 22, 2015

Anything else you wanna throw at us, like sensible arguments or credible sources?

 

[Dreaad]

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong about designing a game around only one type of input. However if you make a port..... then the assumption is the port will play/control just as well on the new input scheme, otherwise what's the point? That's just lazy crap.

Besides that if a bunch of people who aren't even paid for their work can create emulators for controllers that work better than half the fucking ports released it's kind of shameful.

 

[Telengard]

You wanting to play it with KBouse is like me trying to drive a car using an airplane flight stick.

You mean, like this?

What's wrong with controlling a car like that?

 

[Gerrard]

You wanting to play it with KBouse is like me trying to drive a car using an airplane flight stick.

You mean, like this?

What's wrong with controlling a car like that?

Lack of precision? The range of motion you have on that would be terrible.

The same as having a shitty gamepad where only half of the motion range of the analog stick corresponds to actual input.

 

[sexbad?]

Try and play Dark Souls 2

Dark Souls 1 failed the "Can a left-handed keyboard+mouse player play this game?"-test, therefore a playthrough of DS2 is unlikely.

Why don't you learn to use KB + M like normal human beings do?

To be fair though KB + M controls in Dark Souls I and II is shit and you shouldn't play it.

 

[sexbad?]

I can't fathom the retardation required not to understand that KBM is the absolute best setup we have come up with to deal with any game that features freelook.

 

[Dreaad]

There is one advantage to controllers in terms of actual controls, not ergonomics. Movement speed is much more flexible due to it being based on the analogue sticks, unlike a keyboard where either a button for run is on, or it's off, there is no in between. Only really applies to action adventure games but still.

 

[Gragt]

You don't see titles like "Typing of the Dead" released on consoles for obvious reasons, the controls don't allow for it.

But Typing of the Dead was originally released on Dreamcast, wasn’t it? You needed to use the Dreamcast keyboard but it is console title.

 

[Cadmus]

lol jasede

btw the kb+m controls can be patched with some mod, I finished both DS1 and DS2 on a keyboard and it was fine but it took me a while to set it up. The devs are fucking retards though and the piece of shit unpatched game you get from steam should be strictly only pirated because it does not work out of the box, it's a bunch of crappy broken files you need to apply 30 mods to to get them working.

 

[moraes]

There is one advantage to controllers in terms of actual controls, not ergonomics. Movement speed is much more flexible due to it being based on the analogue sticks, unlike a keyboard where either a button for run is on, or it's off, there is no in between. Only really applies to action adventure games but still.

You could control walking/running speed with the scroll wheel in the Splinter Cell games. Alas, it was shit.

 

[Average Manatee]

There is one advantage to controllers in terms of actual controls, not ergonomics. Movement speed is much more flexible due to it being based on the analogue sticks, unlike a keyboard where either a button for run is on, or it's off, there is no in between. Only really applies to action adventure games but still.

Doesn't really help considering almost all games, even if they have fully variable speed, only count stealth (and thereby being seen/heard) based on a binary running/walking scheme. Therefore having a key to move at the exact limit of walking is ideal. Also the direction of your running is still far easier to control with m/kb.

 

[JarlFrank]

Play Severance: Blade of Darkness instead, as a lefty mesen I can say that keyboard layout wi cursors is fucking tight and really intuitive.

This is the one example that shows Jasede is the retard here.
Blade of Darkness is pretty similar to Dark Souls in gameplay style. It works perfectly fine with KB. Let's add other examples: Gothic plays fine with keyboard only, while many people say "it plays like it could be a console game". Tomb Raider plays fine on keyboard only, too.

Oh, hey, look, that's a small handful of action adventures that work fine on PC controls or were even made for PC controls. I don't know which platform the first action adventure game was made for, but if it was PC, then they're not console games. Sorry.

Also this argument means that every modern console needs a mouse and keyboard plugin because FPS aren't meant to be played with shitty controllers.

 

[Jaedar]

Dark souls is perfectly playable with mouse and keyboard unless you suck. It might not be 100% optimal (fucked if I know, haven't tried with controller), but it works.