Dark Souls mouse and keyboard flamewar

[Jasede]

I can't fathom the retardation required not to understand that KBM is the absolute best setup we have come up with to deal with any game that features freelook.

You never need to move the camera in Dark Souls. I sure didn't. So this isn't an argument.

Play Severance: Blade of Darkness instead, as a lefty mesen I can say that keyboard layout wi cursors is fucking tight and really intuitive.

This is the one example that shows Jasede is the retard here.
Blade of Darkness is pretty similar to Dark Souls in gameplay style. It works perfectly fine with KB. Let's add other examples: Gothic plays fine with keyboard only, while many people say "it plays like it could be a console game". Tomb Raider plays fine on keyboard only, too.

Oh, hey, look, that's a small handful of action adventures that work fine on PC controls or were even made for PC controls. I don't know which platform the first action adventure game was made for, but if it was PC, then they're not console games. Sorry.

Also this argument means that every modern console needs a mouse and keyboard plugin because FPS aren't meant to be played with shitty controllers.

They are PC games made for the PC you goddamn retard; you are proving my point.

 

[Cadmus]

I was gonna bitch about the butthurt mod who moved the thread but with Jasede posting more of his insane bullshit I think it was the right call.

 

[Jasede]

You are the insane ones.

You want to play Starcraft with a gamepad.


And the FPS argument is retarded, considering console FPS are designed very differently, featuring different console schemes and auto aim.

The only thing I am sorry about is that I wasted time arguing with people who obviously know nothing about video games and don't play them.

 

[Cadmus]

Dark Souls was released on the PC as a dysfunctional piece of garbage with a supposed KB support that didn't work. The game, when patched up, is perfectly playable with those, even better as the turn speed is faster. There is literally no reason why the game would better be played with a retarded gamepad as it makes no good use of the analogue input. Conclusion - From Software together with Namco or wtf they are called are a bunch of lazy idiots.

 

[Jasede]

The developer didn't want to release it on the PC, and they never should have. Though I am glad some idiots apparently bought it. The game makes excellent use of analogue input.
What you did is the equivalent of buying Starcraft and complaining you can't play it with your only input, the controller you have.

Why is this point so outlandish and hard to understand? Yes, in theory they could certainly have made the KB controls tolerable, but that being said, from what I read, most people play with KB and mouse just fine. Maybe this is just a case of Gothic 1 where you just have to get used to it. Left-handed people being excluded isn't new in gaming, and is an issue that can easily be fixed using a third-party program. It's not ideal, but expecting a Japanese console developer with no PC experience to deliver a good port is nothing short of ridiculous. Can't you guys just be a little more logical?

 

[Cadmus]

The developer didn't want to release it on the PC, and they never should have. Though I am glad some idiots apparently bought it. The game makes excellent use of analogue input.
What you did is the equivalent of buying Starcraft and complaining you can't play it with your only input, the controller you have.

Why is this point so outlandish and hard to understand? Yes, in theory they could certainly have made the KB controls tolerable, but that being said, from what I read, most people play with KB and mouse just fine. Maybe this is just a case of Gothic 1 where you just have to get used to it. Left-handed people being excluded isn't new in gaming, and is an issue that can easily be fixed using a third-party program. It's not ideal, but expecting a Japanese console developer with no PC experience to deliver a good port is nothing short of ridiculous. Can't you guys just be a little more logical?

What I did was buy a PC game with an advertised KBM control scheme that did not work and required 3rd party patching. Games have had rebindable working control schemes since the 80s I guess. It's the simplest thing ever. There is literally no reason why it shouldn't work with how the game is played. What you are doing is white knighting for a multimillion dollar company that gives no fucks about you and is too lazy to spend 5 minutes programming keyboard controls and another 5 minutes testing them when it's been a basic thing since the dawn of gaming.

EDIT: What is this excellent use of the analogue input? The kick move?

 

[Ovplain]

Just get a 360 controller, stop being a fruit.

 

[Jasede]

The developer didn't want to release it on the PC, and they never should have. Though I am glad some idiots apparently bought it. The game makes excellent use of analogue input.
What you did is the equivalent of buying Starcraft and complaining you can't play it with your only input, the controller you have.

Why is this point so outlandish and hard to understand? Yes, in theory they could certainly have made the KB controls tolerable, but that being said, from what I read, most people play with KB and mouse just fine. Maybe this is just a case of Gothic 1 where you just have to get used to it. Left-handed people being excluded isn't new in gaming, and is an issue that can easily be fixed using a third-party program. It's not ideal, but expecting a Japanese console developer with no PC experience to deliver a good port is nothing short of ridiculous. Can't you guys just be a little more logical?

What I did was buy a PC game with an advertised KBM control scheme that did not work and required 3rd party patching. Games have had rebindable working control schemes since the 80s I guess. It's the simplest thing ever. There is literally no reason why it shouldn't work with how the game is played. What you are doing is white knighting for a multimillion dollar company that gives no fucks about you and is too lazy to spend 5 minutes programming keyboard controls and another 5 minutes testing them when it's been a basic thing since the dawn of gaming.

EDIT: What is this excellent use of the analogue input? The kick move?

The movement. Analogue movement confers a significant advantage, giving you an easy way to control your movement speed.
Yes, of course you would have a point, except the developer never made a PC game before. Believe it or not, not a lot of people in Japan have a PC, relatively. I feel like expecting them to adhere to any standards is foolish at best, considering they never wanted to make a port in the first place, and only did so on fan-urging.

The argument about white-knighting is valid, but I want to point out From made hardcore first person RPGs while being a tiny, obscure company for the better part of a decade before their breakthrough and I've been supporting them since their infancy. King's Field is an excellent first person RPG series on the consoles that would, frankly, have been more popular as DOS games since the control scheme of the Playstation was, ironically, not suited to them all that much.

 

[Cadmus]

Dude it don't matter if they had never made a PC game before, this is some really basic stuff. Namco has ported stuff before I suppose? It costs money to buy, I suppose? I didn't know you were such a fanboy, I wouldn't have bothered arguing with you.

 

[Jasede]

I'm not a fanboy! I don't like Dark Souls 2. I just think it's unreasonable to assume that if they never touched PC development before that, maybe, they don't do so well on their first attempt. Yes, changing your keybindings is pretty standard. But I know plenty of PC games that don't let you do it. Maybe they only knew those! Plus, they were probably thinking, just like I am: "Probably, anyone who wants to play this console game on the PC will have a console-like input device at hand."

I am telling you, this is exactly like expecting an RTS to let you use a controller to play it. Maybe they could add the option, but it would be neither elegant nor a good idea. They would have been better off not supporting the keyboard at all so people like you can't complain about misleading advertising. (Though I think that's foolish on your part; why are you expecting a controller-designed game to handle well with a keyboard? It might and they could have made it work better than they did (allegedly, I had no problems using Keyboard and Mouse) but it's still an unreasonable expectation that makes no sense to me.)

 

[Zetor]

Dark souls is perfectly playable with mouse and keyboard unless you suck. It might not be 100% optimal (fucked if I know, haven't tried with controller), but it works.

Yep. I did a full run in DS1 with kb+m and even though it's obviously inferior at some points (like backstabbing without lock-on being basically impossible except against the slowest enemies), it's playable without major issues. Only boss that made me rage a bit was Capra, but I think that's true for all squishies and clearly I just needed to git gud.

 

[Jasede]

People raged at Capra with a controller, too, so it's working as intended.

 

[laclongquan]

Where's my coke~

 

[Cadmus]

I didn't realize Capra was a real boss because I spammed him with my overleveled 2h destroyer dude and he died in like 3 seconds. Ha ha! Git gut!

I'm not a fanboy! I don't like Dark Souls 2. I just think it's unreasonable to assume that if they never touched PC development before that, maybe, they don't do so well on their first attempt. Yes, changing your keybindings is pretty standard. But I know plenty of PC games that don't let you do it. Maybe they only knew those! Plus, they were probably thinking, just like I am: "Probably, anyone who wants to play this console game on the PC will have a console-like input device at hand."

I am telling you, this is exactly like expecting an RTS to let you use a controller to play it. Maybe they could add the option, but it would be neither elegant nor a good idea. They would have been better off not supporting the keyboard at all so people like you can't complain about misleading advertising. (Though I think that's foolish on your part; why are you expecting a controller-designed game to handle well with a keyboard? It might and they could have made it work better than they did (allegedly, I had no problems using Keyboard and Mouse) but it's still an unreasonable expectation that makes no sense to me.)

Your unreasonable white knighting aside, they did not only "not do so well on their first attempt", the game doesn't fucking work.

 

[vean]

I'm not a fanboy! I don't like Dark Souls 2. I just think it's unreasonable to assume that if they never touched PC development before that, maybe, they don't do so well on their first attempt. Yes, changing your keybindings is pretty standard. But I know plenty of PC games that don't let you do it. Maybe they only knew those! Plus, they were probably thinking, just like I am: "Probably, anyone who wants to play this console game on the PC will have a console-like input device at hand."

Don't be a fucking retard. What do you think console games are made on? Do you think they program them on consoles?

We're talking about seasoned professional programmers who already use PCs to make their games. They know more than enough to make the game a fantastic experience on PCs.

The fact that they didn't is just a testament to inept management.

 

[Jasede]

I didn't realize Capra was a real boss because I spammed him with my overleveled 2h destroyer dude and he died in like 3 seconds. Ha ha! Git gut!

I'm not a fanboy! I don't like Dark Souls 2. I just think it's unreasonable to assume that if they never touched PC development before that, maybe, they don't do so well on their first attempt. Yes, changing your keybindings is pretty standard. But I know plenty of PC games that don't let you do it. Maybe they only knew those! Plus, they were probably thinking, just like I am: "Probably, anyone who wants to play this console game on the PC will have a console-like input device at hand."

I am telling you, this is exactly like expecting an RTS to let you use a controller to play it. Maybe they could add the option, but it would be neither elegant nor a good idea. They would have been better off not supporting the keyboard at all so people like you can't complain about misleading advertising. (Though I think that's foolish on your part; why are you expecting a controller-designed game to handle well with a keyboard? It might and they could have made it work better than they did (allegedly, I had no problems using Keyboard and Mouse) but it's still an unreasonable expectation that makes no sense to me.)

Your unreasonable white knighting aside, they did not only "not do so well on their first attempt", the game doesn't fucking work.

How come others have played it just fine with KB and Mouse, then?

 

[Cadmus]

Because everybody patched it, d'oh.

 

[Angthoron]

Game that Codex doesn't wank to: "HOLY FUCK CONTROLS ARE SHIT! THIS PORT IS AWFUL! HOW HARD IS IT TO IMPLEMENT KBM, EVERYONE WITH 30 SPARE MINUTES CAN DO THIS" [98 people brofist this]
Game that Codex wanks to: "PECK THE DEVS GENTLY ON THE DICK BECAUSE THEY BOTHERED TO PORT THE GAME TO THE PC, YOU SHIT FOR BRAINS PEASANT! LEARN TO LOVE THE GAMEPAD!"

Mmmmkays.

 

[Jaedar]

Because everybody patched it, d'oh.

While I always used DsFix, I finished my first kb+m playthrough before dsmfix was a thing. So clearly it works, although it was very awkward when fighting multiple enemies.

 

[WhiteGuts]

I don't know how the fuck I came here, but here's my two cents : games designed with a controller in mind should be played with a controller.

 

[Cadmus]

I don't know how the fuck I came here, but here's my two cents : games designed with a controller in mind should be played with a controller.

take your two cents and shove them up your asshole

 

[WhiteGuts]

 

[FugueLah]

Why limit yourself, use any input method you want. Just one of the many perks of gaming on pc.

 

[MicoSelva]

This whole discussion is retarded. If someone does not want to play Dark Souls with a gamepad, and considers keyboard + mouse controls unplayable, he/she should play a different a different game. It is not like there is a deficiency of them out there.

You should only buy a special device to play a game (graphics card / console / plastic guitar / gamepad / whatever) if you really want to, and can afford it. Otherwise, go play something else.

 

[Raghar]

Try and play Dark Souls 2

Dark Souls 1 failed the "Can a left-handed keyboard+mouse player play this game?"-test, therefore a playthrough of DS2 is unlikely.

I played it on my first playtrough with keyboard only, and I killed last opponent on first try.