Deus Ex Deus Ex: Mankind Divided

[Metro]

Not defending Squeenix but is it really an issue? Unless you alt tab and start doing other shit.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Making these games take place in environments the main character is already settled into is probably the worst non-gameplay decision they made.

JC breaking into every place made sense. He was looking for terrorists right after an attack, or was on the run. Here (in both new games) Adam one day randomly decides to raid the whole fucking neighborhood and steal every candy bar and bullet he can find, hack every single computer, talk to every single person... (He can even slaughter every single cop at the police station. People he actually knows and worked with for years.)

Hengsha in HR almost works, but you are still backed by a huge corporations. In DX, Hong Kong was really the only "peaceful" (no martial law, no manhunt) "hub", and at that point JC had pretty much zero allies.

Of course, once I realised that the random vendors/NPCs in Hong Kong actually carry cash on them (and in hefty amounts compared to the impoverished NYC denizens), the only residents left conscious in the entire city were Tracer, Paul and Alex. Every Versalife employee and mech commander dead, and every single civillian/police/triad in the city taking a cattle prod / baton induced nap

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

PSA:This game is a keylogger

Straight from an Eidos employee guys, this game logs every keypress while its running and sends it back to SQUENIX for analysis.

Now that is freaking lame.

edit: after watching it...um, no, not a keylogger - at least, it doesn't explicitly say that. It says it tracks player actions - jumping, shooting, dialog choices etc. Tracking actions isn't the same as logging keys.

Actually, I think all steam games have similar functionality.

I seem to recall at least one developer commenting on how great steam was because they could see where players get stuck in a level. This was from some interview a long time ago though, so I have no idea whether or not I am remembering it correctly.

 

[Jaedar]

Not defending Squeenix but is it really an issue? Unless you alt tab and start doing other shit.

You will, because some of the loading screens are atrociously long. Unless you like spending a minute looking at 6 seconds worth of looped animations?

 

[Sodafish]

HDD peasants detected.

 

[Latelistener]

I'm not going to say DX;MD was a perfect game, or that the writing was excellent etc, but take off the rose-colored glasses already.

And not a single word about the emergent gameplay the new Deus Ex games lack of, to the point that some people say that Dishonored is closer to Deus Ex than HR/MD will ever be.
Instead of taking that design philosophy and building upon it, they offer things like the bathroom easter egg, like it will make them closer to the original game.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

And not a single word about the emergent gameplay the new Deus Ex games lack of

Are you are honestly upset because you can't use glitches, bad ai and jumping on people's heads to kill people?

At the start of the game, I got the forger to attack me, but I ran and hid while a nearby police robot* killed the forger and all his men. "Emergent" enough?

*I had to wait for the police robot to be nearby.

 

[Latelistener]

Are you are honestly upset because you can't use glitches, bad ai and jumping on people's heads to kill people?

I think you didn't get the point.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Are you are honestly upset because you can't use glitches, bad ai and jumping on people's heads to kill people?

I think you didn't get the point.

You're the one who linked the Maggie Chow video, dude. Might as well have had Benny Hill as the soundtrack.

 

[Latelistener]

You're the one who linked the Maggie Chow video, dude. Might as well have had Benny Hill as the soundtrack.

 

[Carrion]

I actually went back and replayed some of it the other day on "realistic" difficulty.

Man, it has not aged well.

The game has barely aged at all. By the time of its release it was already kind of behind the curve in a number of aspects, and the endless streams of popamole since then have only made the truly great things like the level design stand out even more than before. All of the things you listed were as obvious in 2000 as they are now, and only the shortcomings of the AI have ever been an actual issue. Seriously, the flashlight? Deus Ex also has a fair amount of side quests, some of them pretty large even, like Smuggler's Den, but you just don't really think about it as the game doesn't slap a huge "SIDE QUEST" label on them.

But of course, when someone's talking about game design and comparing DX to HR or MD, they're not talking about this kind of stuff. HR and MD are a violation of DX's principles on a more fundamental level: introducing a forced third-perspective camera in certain situations that for example allows you to see stuff you should not be able to see; having the levels allow for multiple different approaches, but doing this in the most literal way possible by having obvious pre-made routes instead of allowing the player to carve a path of their own (don't know if MD is better than HR in this regard); frequently taking the control away from the player using over-the-top takedown animations and cutscenes where Jensen often acts like a moron without the player having any say in the matter. DX is more of a simulation where the gameworld has its own set of rules that the player can manipulate in any way he can think of, and while Human Revolution retained some of that, your interaction with the game world is generally much more contextual and "gamey" in it, like being able to break down walls but only in very specific places, or always finding a convenient air duct behind some crate or vending machine. You could argue that it's not that different from DX, where you can't blow up every door either and which also has its fair share of convenient air ducts, but the level design makes a huge difference in practice, as DX generally has a larger number of different ways to navigate through the environments and use your abilities in creative ways, instead of being stuck in a corridor with just two or three different doors to the next room at any given time.

The sad thing is that HR wasn't really that far off from having Deus Ex-like gameplay — the cover system could easily be completely ignored along with the object highlighting and some other horrible modern abominations, there was a handful of really good levels that deviated from the "augmented corridor" formula of the rest of the game, and it also had a number of good ideas of its own. I would've been very happy with a few proper first-person melee weapons, the ability to lean and improved level design, but it was not to be.

 

[Tito Anic]

Man, it has not aged well.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

The game has barely aged at all.

Discounting the AI, the obvious graphical and technical aspects of the game, this is fair. Some of the aspects I mentioned sucked back then too and really have nothing to do with recent advancements.

I more meant that my perception of it hasn't aged well though. I played endless hours of it back in the day, but I was younger and just didn't notice or care about the shortcomings I notice now.

Seriously, the flashlight?

Yes, seriously, the stupid, battery-draining flashlight. I mean, why even use it at all? Just carry a flashlight.

"My vision is augmented." Yeah, right.

Deus Ex also has a fair amount of side quests, some of them pretty large even, like Smuggler's Den, but you just don't really think about it as the game doesn't slap a huge "SIDE QUEST" label on them.

I know about its side quests. I also know that they were pretty short for the most part. Hardly anything on the scope of a traditional RPG side-quest with dialog trees etc. Don't get me wrong, they were great side-quests for an FPS/RPG of its time, but nothing near Bloodlines level or anything. Some of the side-quests in MD on the other hand do approach that level.

HR and MD are a violation of DX's principles on a more fundamental level:

Oh, here we go...

introducing a forced third-perspective camera in certain situations that for example allows you to see stuff you should not be able to see

How dare they. BLASPHEMY. As opposed to awkwardly using the Q & E keys to peek around a corner. Sorry, but the console kiddies are used to cover systems giving them ESP.

This is one of those things I agree is popamole, but I can live with it. Making a big deal over it is over the top.

having the levels allow for multiple different approaches, but doing this in the most literal way possible by having obvious pre-made routes instead of allowing the player to carve a path of their own (don't know if MD is better than HR in this regard)

I'm not talking about HR, so I am kind of wondering why you are even participating in this conversation if you haven't played MD.

frequently taking the control away from the player using over-the-top takedown animations and cutscenes where Jensen often acts like a moron without the player having any say in the matter

Again, agree this is popamole, but when the alternative is mechanically whacking someone with a baton, I can see why they wanted something a little cooler looking.

I do miss the prod though...

DX is more of a simulation where the gameworld has its own set of rules that the player can manipulate in any way he can think of, and while Human Revolution

Again, not talking about HR. Personally, I was bored by just about every aspect of the game - to the point to where I can barely remember it. Boring story. Many corridors. Boring NPCs. Much uninstall.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/deus-ex-mankind-divided-dx12-patch-coming-tomorrow/

Enjoy your placebo effect.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

I had been thinking about Deus Ex and prequels last week. While the original Deus Ex left room open for a prequel, was there ever a need for a 'the road to 2052' prequel series? (if anything I think fans would rather have seen a game that replaced Invisible War)
So many elements are already being retconned and changed from the bible that was written for Deus Ex (yes I know that a gaming bible does not mean absolute canon), and the focus of HR and MD is so different from the first and second game, Eidos could better have taken the next step and make this its complete own franchise.

The mechanical implants barely resemble the almost Frankenstein esque body modifications that were talked about in the first game, and nano tech augmentation does not seem to be that much of a next step other than that users now resemble regular people more. In some ways the nano augmentations even seem to be a step back from some of the implant jobs in MD.

No doubt about it that the original Deus Ex will be changed, if just to make it more in touch with its 'prequels' regarding design and story.

 

[BelisariuS.F]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/116928-Deus-Ex-Mankind-Divided-Review
This one has some actually funny bits (provided by MD's ridiculous premise).

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Makabb]

Fangry Foe gives it onyl 7/10

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Does anyone actually still pay attention to this guy?

 

[DeepOcean]

Well, game is getting the "Meh, seen better." treatment even from popamole fans, that isn't good for Square Enix.

 

[Grotesque]

Does anyone actually still pay attention to this guy?

go fuck yourself, moron.
AngryJoe always calls bullshit in games

 

[RK47]

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

https://www.computerbase.de/2016-09...tt_benchmarks_auf_einer_vierkerncpu_von_intel

Lol. DX12 slower across the board in actual gameplay analysis. The internal benchmark is some kind of scam.

 

[Morality Games]

Well, game is getting the "Meh, seen better." treatment even from popamole fans, that isn't good for Square Enix.

Square Enix's remakes (or Final Fantasy for that matter) keep under performing in sales due to combination of misguided marketing and development priorities.

Developers keep making games with funless dramatically overwrought neo (super lame) punk cinematics that make you feel tired just watching them (Final Fantasy 15 is also Neo Punk, borderline Goth with all the black clothing). Lot of Star Wars Prequel trilogy action going on here.

Marketers have nothing to work with and can't bullshit the audience into thinking they might be playing something that has a bit of humor or joy in it.

In contrast, the Witcher trilogy is plenty bleak, but there are moments of rich joy and humor in it -- genuine moments of humanity.

Such moments also exist in Square Enix games, but the conveyance is far, far worse in the game and basically absent from the marketing.

Everything is really, really, intensively joyless.

Grant you, games like Dark Souls are also pretty bleak but they aren't nearly as laden with depressing, sleep inducing cinematics.

Also grant you, Mankind Divided and Human Revolution are decent games if you can adjust to this excessively dramatized factor ... but why would you bother in a world full of more games than anyone can hope to play?

 

[Morality Games]

Agenda, huh.

Behold the Star Wars Prequel trilogy effect. Lots of action and gratuitous violence and with absolutely no explanation provided for why Lightening and Snow are fighting each other, going on for minutes and minutes (all Lightsaber duels in the PT) and absolutely no reason why anyone in the audience should feel any emotion other than puzzlement over how two former allies came to be at such cross purposes or why anarchist good natured loafer Snow has suddenly became a Goth King.