Donation Guidelines

[asfasdf]

Tough luck then, because I will not link this information, no matter how much you care. I will see if I can find an anonymous alternative in paypal.

What exactly do you mean by "link this information"? What we see is what we get back from PayPal in terms of donation notifications and nothing else. That's just how PayPal works - it identifies both the sender and receiver of the money for obvious reasons, i.e. fraud prevention. This isn't any different here than with any other website or service using PayPal.

I mean that I am not paying in a way my name/address/other stuff is listed in the payment. If you had a direct CC payment, I could pay without sharing such information.

 

[Cosmic Misogynerd]

So, at the end of the day, is only DU and Taluntain who can see our PayPal info?

 

[evdk]

So, at the end of the day, is only DU and Taluntain who can see our PayPal info?

Them, and the Chinese identity thieves they sell the data to. Overall a pretty secure setup.

 

[Broseph]

 

[Taluntain]

Where'd you get the idea that anyone is sharing it among the admins? Most of the time, it's either just DU or me that even get to see this information in terms of PayPal notifications. And what we get to see is the name, surname and PayPal e-mail. Not exactly very identifiable. To my knowledge, none of it has ever been shared outside the two of us. So, yea, "carelessly"? Huh?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...elisk-raffle-prizes.81960/page-4#post-2590121
"The fact that all the Codex admin can see your PayPal email is somewhat disturbing."
"Name and address in some instances."

Unless Kosmonaut was mistaken, but DU didn't seem to contradict his statement re: all admin. If it is in error, then good.

There are 2 Codex admins, DU and me. The rest aren't exactly admins (not in the technical sense), though sometimes they're referred to as "admins" too. But they have no dealings with PayPal. At least as far as I know, anyway. DU can verify for certain.

Address is normally not collected (and I think you'd need to enter it yourself when donating - but you don't) because it's only needed when shipping physical goods. Again, all of this is only part of how the PayPal payment gateway works and is exactly the same on the Codex as on every other site using PayPal.

We don't require you to enter an address when donating because we aren't shipping any physical goods to you in return for your purchase/donation. We get to see your name, surname and e-mail as part of the transaction notification/receipt and that's it. And all of this is never used for any other purpose whatsoever other than matters concerning someone's donation. I.e. we look it up if for some reason we need to to properly process your donation.

Codex is definitely different. I haven't seen RPGWatch needing to do much in the way of fundraising, NMA never had a problem even when its traffic ramped way up in Fallout's peak traffic days, and a site like GameBanshee is very comparable to Codex in traffic but is actually profitable (but it also uses much more intrusive ads and is on one of the videogaming's better ad networks, and it's not a forum for either ad or server usage purposes).

I stopped using AdBlock a while back as I realized what a dickish thing it is to do even if you whitelist all your frequently visited sites (which I already did). Codex audience is probably way too cynical to sell them on the need of not using AdBlock or at least whitelisting your favorites. Maybe instead of a fundraiser, you guys should have a "whitelist Codex week".

You didn't see much on RPGWatch because Myrthos has been shouldering the costs himself for years. They only started taking donations a few years ago along with putting some GOG ads up to help cover the costs. But I expect he's still running RPGWatch more out of his own pocket than not. He's a good guy like that.

I don't know what kind of a deal you had with NMA, but weren't you hosted by some network? Normally they have access to better paid advertising, not to mention more spare resources.

GameBanshee has been run as a serious business from the get-go. None of our sites ever really have... they've been and still are a more or less serious hobby for most of us here. My primary concern is making sure we get enough money in to pay the bills and have some left over for future upgrades or unforeseen events/costs (which always crop up), but that's about it. I think all of us have RL jobs (well, those who are employed, anyway). Sure, if we wanted to commercialize Codex up the wazoo I'm sure we could bring in more money, but the side effect would be annoying the natives into rebellion and nobody's really interested in doing that. Try putting ads of the kind that GameBanshee has up here and run for cover from flying pitchforks...

Not that I'm blaming Buck, he's running a business and needs to make enough money to live off of and I know better than probably most people how hard it is to get anywhere near decent advertising for a gaming site. Unlike there, here the forums actually are the heart and the focus of the community. For a commercial site, the forums are usually more trouble than they're worth, since they bring in little to no income, need constant moderation, supervision, tech staff, upgrades etc. It's far, far more profitable to focus on the site content because that's the only thing that brings in good money. Spending anywhere near as much time on your forums as we do is actually counter-productive if your aim is living off the work on your website. The community usually appreciates it and it shows in donation drives, but I'm sure if the focus would be on churning 10+ pieces of crunchy content on a daily basis, that'd be far more lucrative. Just ask Sol...

I try getting the point about AdBlock across whenever the subject pops up but honestly, I doubt that many people used to not seeing any ads anywhere actually whitelist many sites. I've never used AdBlock because I know that it's making big problems for most of the sites that aren't raking the cash in from awesome advertising.

 

[Taluntain]

Tough luck then, because I will not link this information, no matter how much you care. I will see if I can find an anonymous alternative in paypal.

What exactly do you mean by "link this information"? What we see is what we get back from PayPal in terms of donation notifications and nothing else. That's just how PayPal works - it identifies both the sender and receiver of the money for obvious reasons, i.e. fraud prevention. This isn't any different here than with any other website or service using PayPal.

I mean that I am not paying in a way my name/address/other stuff is listed in the payment. If you had a direct CC payment, I could pay without sharing such information.

I don't think that's true. If it was, fraud would be rampant. You actually can pay directly with your credit card via PayPal without having a PayPal account (or at least you could before DU's automated the system - I'm not sure if he's added this yet), but I assume that at least the name on the card is recorded and visible in the receipt simply for troubleshooting purposes if nothing else.

So, at the end of the day, is only DU and Taluntain who can see our PayPal info?

Usually just one of us two, whoever the donation goes to. Standard donations usually end up in my account since I pay the bills whereas all the Kickstarter stuff goes to DU, since he forwards that money to inXile, Obsidian and so on.

 

[asfasdf]

I usually use prepaid non-nominal cards for Internet purchases. The 'name' in the card is either provided by the issuer, or a nickname in some cases. Yes, if I could use the CC directly on paypal, I would pay it.

 

[Taluntain]

We've had reports that such cards don't work for most people. I know on my site people have used them successfully, but it depends on the country where they're issued. They should be fine if they're certified to work world-wide, but most only work in the US, UK and so on. I'm in Europe and DU's in Australia, you need to keep that in mind.

But you can try: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=NURJZBQ9Q5RQA

Use the "Don't have a PayPal account?
Use your credit card or bank account (where available)." option.

 

[Cosmic Misogynerd]

'K

I'm gonna donate for the Torment thingie at the end of the month, the day the campaign end. Whatever, I was just afraid that Infinitron could get our data because as a Mossad member he could make bad use of it

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Tough luck then, because I will not link this information, no matter how much you care. I will see if I can find an anonymous alternative in paypal.

There's no "anonymous" anything when it comes to money. Any site you give money to will end up with your name and your address (for fraud reasons but usually because you want something shipped somewhere). If you pay with a credit card, I will know the name on that credit card, no ifs, no buts.

My Codex email is full of: "Item no.X - Notification of Payment Received from FULL NAME (EMAIL ADDRESS)"

The only thing I don't get are your actual credit card details - as they're all processed by PayPal.

I mean that I am not paying in a way my name/address/other stuff is listed in the payment. If you had a direct CC payment, I could pay without sharing such information.

Click the red circled option. PayPal are annoying in how they hide it, but that's how you pay via CC without a PayPal account. I will still get the name, email and address that you enter on that form though. If you enter a name that doesn't match the card, your payment will likely be blocked due to suspected fraud. I don't currently enforce entering an address so I *think* you can skip entering that but issues arise if there's suspected fraud on that too - in that our PayPal account could get shut down due to suspicious activity (PayPal are like that).

The fact is, you're sending money over the internet. There are certain things any payment provider is going to need. Basic things like yes, your name. If you're uncomfortable with that, find out Taluntain's postal address and slip him an envelope full of cash. Make sure your fingerprints aren't on it though - and that you haven't left any DNA on it when you licked the envelope.

There's no really anonymous option, the sender of the money is always visible, not that anyone here actually cares who you are.

Sharing that info among admins seems pretty dubious tho. I mean, I don't care, my PayPal address is out of date anyway even if you guys see it, and my real name is public knowledge already, but if you want to actively discourage people to donate, then treating their personal information that carelessly is exactly the way to do it. Just food for thought.

I don't consider giving admins - who have access to a whole bunch of information for the site, including FTP - access to donation information as "careless". Especially when it allows them to follow-up payments if necessary, in the event of my absence.

The total list of admins is 7 people: Crooked Bee, DarkUnderlord, JarlFrank, Jason, Taluntain, Trash, VentilatorOfDoom

Personally I'd be pretty sus of that Jason guy. Suspicious fellow.

If you're really so paranoid, you shouldn't be using the internet full-stop. I can track down where you live to your home town with most IP traces these days, the e-mail you signed up with you've probably carelessly used at some other forum where you used your real name (or a mention of where you live), and my personal favourite "AwesomeCoolGuy92@hotmail.com" usually tells me the year you were born, and thus how old you are. I know I've found a lot people's real names just from the e-mail address and mentions of universities they go to (or some other detail) - something usually comes up online during random alt checking.

And on a personal note, my real name, address and phone number have been easily associated with the Codex for about 10 years - I've never once had anyone bother to call or show up at my front door-step.

I trust the admins we have though to not run around signing you up for porn.

Especially as we've continued to grow (we've gone from an average of 400 active users visiting every day back in May 2012 - to over 1,000 today).

That graph appears to be saying you went from about 800 to 1000 active users, and from about 400 post brofists to 1500. Maybe I'm confused tho'.

Yeah, I should've posted the full one:

But yeah, I did get that wrong. I just know we started out around 500 since the change to XF and we're just now regularly passing 1,000.

Where'd you get the idea that anyone is sharing it among the admins? Most of the time, it's either just DU or me that even get to see this information in terms of PayPal notifications. And what we get to see is the name, surname and PayPal e-mail. Not exactly very identifiable. To my knowledge, none of it has ever been shared outside the two of us. So, yea, "carelessly"? Huh?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...elisk-raffle-prizes.81960/page-4#post-2590121
"The fact that all the Codex admin can see your PayPal email is somewhat disturbing."
"Name and address in some instances."

Unless Kosmonaut was mistaken, but DU didn't seem to contradict his statement re: all admin. If it is in error, then good.

Nope, it's all "front page admins". While they're not the same system as forum admins, the two lists are currently identical.

Codex is definitely different. I haven't seen RPGWatch needing to do much in the way of fundraising

Codex' main problem is forum activity. Insert and update queries are usually the most intensive. As Taluntain said, we're not a content site like GameBanshee so we don't have a lot of "random browsers" just sifting through our DB of game info. While the Watch gets similar unique visitors (or about half the Codex, depending on what stat you look at)...

RPG Watch right now: Currently Active Users: 108 (7 members and 101 guests)
NMA: 60 users online :: 2 Registered, 0 Hidden and 58 Guests
Codex right now: Online now: 438 (members: 90, guests: 348)

That's 13 times the number of members online right now compared to the Watch, all actively posting stuff.

NMA never had a problem even when its traffic ramped way up in Fallout's peak traffic days

Yeah, as Taluntain said, they've always been hosted by a network and have tried to keep it "clean". The Codex has always been independently hosted, again due to the "mature nature" of our forums.

and a site like GameBanshee is very comparable to Codex in traffic but is actually profitable (but it also uses much more intrusive ads and is on one of the videogaming's better ad networks, and it's not a forum for either ad or server usage purposes).

Yeah, again, GameBanshee has a bunch of people making select queries (assuming your stuff is actually stored in a database - sometimes I think you hand-craft the HTML for each page though, in which case your load requirements would be minimal; so I can't be sure) and very few posting / brofisting / searching the forums. And again, the "cleaner" nature of the site and front page content means you get better ad providers.

Whatever, I was just afraid that Infinitron could get our data because as a Mossad member he could make bad use of it

No, our resident snoop doesn't have access to the full PayPal info.

 

[Brother None]

If you're really so paranoid, you shouldn't be using the internet full-stop.

I'm not speaking for myself. I don't care, for obvious reasons, my name and home city are as public as can be. I'm telling you that careless handling of personal information is a great way to discourage people from donating, especially if you're just gonna be smug about admins having people's home addresses rather than take people's concerns seriously. A lot of people do not in fact mention their real name anywhere, and a lot of people use unique emails for PayPal and similar payment options. The less care you take in handling that info, the more you discourage people. That's just a fact for any fundraising, what you do with that fact is up to you, doesn't matter to me.

 

[asfasdf]

I see, I will try the no account thing on paypal tomorrow.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

If you're really so paranoid, you shouldn't be using the internet full-stop.

I'm not speaking for myself.

In which case I'm not speaking about you either.

I'm telling you that careless handling of personal information

Where have we been careless in our handling of personal information? Have I or any of the other admins divulged any information gained from the payment system? It's been sitting up there for about two weeks now, so please tell me which admin has divulged personal information publicly and they will be de-admined immediately.

is a great way to discourage people from donating, especially if you're just gonna be smug about admins having people's home addresses rather than take people's concerns seriously.

If you're really so paranoid as to want to pay with your credit card using a fake name, I'm sorry but THERE IS NO SUCH OPTION.

This is real money kids. At some point, that needs to be tracked back to you so we can:
a) Verify the payment.
b) Prevent fraud.

Especially when you're talking about taking money online. Anyone can simply claim "Oh, they stole my credit card - that wasn't me" and our account gets FUCKED OVER by PayPal. That's why you can't lie about this stuff. Not if you actually want the Codex to be able to accept your payment.

If that upsets you, don't donate. That is your only option.

A lot of people do not in fact mention their real name anywhere

Not when paying with a credit card they don't. Well, not unless they want that payment stopped and the card cancelled due to fraud.

This isn't a "me" thing. This is a "if you want to pay anyone real money with your credit card, you are going to have to divulge your real name and most likely an address". If you want to be paranoid and all I had was your name, then that and your IP address alone is all I would need to find out your address. If your IP is through a proxy, then I'm sure your selected time zone will reveal where you live - or anything you've posted would give me a town or at least a country I could hunt for you in. If I wanted to, I'm sure I could data mine your posts in order to work out a posting pattern that would give me your time zone.

No really, if you're that paranoid GET OFF THE INTERNET and you sure as fuck better not give anyone any money over it. And if these people are so paranoid they don't give out their address, I really do wonder how they buy anything online.

Of course, we haven't even gotten into what I'm supposed to do with your address. Send you a Christmas Card?

and a lot of people use unique emails for PayPal and similar payment options.

"A lot of people"? Really? Please show me your statistics. Or are you just happy continually making shit up and throwing baseless allegations around? Because I have some 800 odd payments that seem to say otherwise. Even payments I've received from people who have not been logged in at the time, I've been able to associate with their account because they used the exact same e-mail to register on the Codex. Those I haven't found haven't actually had accounts.

The less care you take in handling that info, the more you discourage people.

Again, please tell me how we're not taking care of this information.

That's just a fact for any fundraising, what you do with that fact is up to you, doesn't matter to me.

So why are you here arguing about it?

 

[Lorica]

ib4 SA IP ban

 

[Country_Gravy]

I suspect that asfasdf (If that IS his real name) is just trolling. Nobody is that big of a tard and can still figure out how to use the internets.

 

[asfasdf]

So, now not wanting to divulge personal information over the internet means paranoia.

More to the topic, there are legal options for having 'anonymous' CC transfer. I use cards which are emitted by specialized business, where the 'holder' name on the card is the company's. Yes, technically an investigation could trace it back to me, but not without legal hassle and a good reason, which is way better than having my real name on the receipt.

Edit: Well, never mind this, I understand you fear having problems with paypal with this kind of operation, so I will not use it.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

There's being cautious, and there's "I use special cards with a pseudonym on it so my donation can't be traced back to me unless there's an investigation".

 

[tuluse]

It would be really funny if asfasdf was like Tim Cain or MCA and just wanted to support the codex without anyone knowing.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

So, now not wanting to divulge personal information over the internet

... and wanting to donate with a credit card ...

means paranoia.

Yes.

More to the topic, there are legal options for having 'anonymous' CC transfer. I use cards which are emitted by specialized business, where the 'holder' name on the card is the company's. Yes, technically an investigation could trace it back to me, but not without legal hassle and a good reason, which is way better than having my real name on the receipt.

... or the company claims misuse and gets the payment back. The only way to do an anonymous donation is cash in an envelope (although technically even that could be traced to your home town just from the postage marks, so you'll need to drive into another country and post it, just to be sure).

Edit: Well, never mind this, I understand you fear having problems with paypal with this kind of operation, so I will not use it.

No worries Bryce.

 

[Infinitron]

Brother None cannot into credit cards. He doesn't even have one. (Dutch gonna Dutch)

 

[Angthoron]

It would be really funny if asfasdf was like Pete Hines and just wanted to support the codex without anyone knowing.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Except why would Pete Hines be in Brazil?

 

[Angthoron]

Except why would Pete Hines be in Brazil?

I'd be in Brazil if I were him. Fuck European spring.

 

[evdk]

Infinitron
Credit cards are stupid, debit cards is where it's at.

I'd be in Brazil if I were him. Fuck European spring.

There's been a spring this year? Around here we went from snow straight to summer.

 

[Angthoron]

Infinitron
Credit cards are stupid, debit cards is where it's at.

I'd be in Brazil if I were him. Fuck European spring.

There's been a spring this year? Around here we went from snow straight to summer.

Where I'm at, looking out the window is a lovely mix of dead snow and shit browns, so ech.

Also, I'm using my debit card via PayPal with no problem.