Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Capcom Dragon's Dogma - PC version RELEASED

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by Syril, Dec 2, 2011.

  1. Raghar Arcane

    Raghar
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Parrots:
    8,864
    Click here and disable ads!
    Don't tell him that. You are saving him from a gay porn.
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Sjukob Savant

    Sjukob
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Parrots:
    455
    [​IMG]

    So , after spending some time on the game I wanted to write this . Wanted do it for quite some time , but was too lazy .
    Pretty fun game overall , unfortunately it's heavily unfinished and there are a plently of half assed things , I will make a short overview of them .

    Firstly , exploration is ASS . Although there is aught to be found all over the world it's mostly consists of generic consumable/craft items that aren't worth a damn . Sometimes you can find equipment , but merchants always have items with much better stats . Despite that , I felt the urge to see what the world looked like , but needless to say that this feeling quickly wears off , and later it becomes annoying running back and forth stumbling upon the ever respawning monsters . Although the map doesn't look big , the world doesn't feel small , because of character's movement speed , big thanks for port crystals and eternal ferrystone .

    Graphics are alright ( for a ported game ) the only thing that annoyed me was draw distance , it wasn't rare for me to see people appearing out of the air right in front of me . Soundtrack is mostly good , but there are not a lot of memorable compositions , but still I really liked some of them .

    I want to refrain from commenting on the plot and story too much . It's the aspect where the rush of development striked the hardest , a lot of things lack detail . Grigori makes a drammatic appearance at the beggining , doesn't do shit until the end of the game , Julien appears to be involved in some shady business than gets involved in conflict with Mersedes , admitis that he was doing some moves , but no explanation provided on what did he do and how Mercedes found out . No explanation to salvation background and Elysion in general , the romance is half-assed in general . And personaly to me the whole cycle thing in the end seemed kinda random , almost like writters decided that they needed more implication to the story . To me dragon's dogma would've looked fine as a generic "The hero kills the dragon" story , but whatever .

    Now to the combat , the meaty part of the game . This is such a massive section , that it will include several other aspects . One of the major problems with combat is bow dominance , but it's not that bows are overpowered by themselves , several factors contribute to this . First of all you MUST exploit enemy weakness , there is no way around it in this game , if you don't do that your damage will be heavily reduced , a lot of the enemies have weakspots in hard to reach places and either require you climbing on them or waiting for them to expose , while bow users can rain arrows at any moment from afar , putting themselves in a much less dangerous position than melee . Magic users are hampered by wonky aiming and significant delay ( casting ) before they can attack , bow users have almost zero delay between their attacks and manual aiming is very responsive . Secondly , it's easy to deal with flying enemies when you have access to ranged combat , much harder when you don't , another point scored towards archers . Third , magic users HAVE to utilize elemental weakness of the enemies ( see the point above ) which results in additional running to the tavern to change skills , this becomes much more annoying in BBI where you can only change skills with the help of Olra , and again bow users don't have to deal with this problem , their skills are "equip and forget" . And the last one , although not directly conserning bows , all classes that can use bows have the best mobility in the game , they can roll , double jump , cancel their actions , while other classes are much more limited in movement , this becomes especially noticeable when you are playing casters . The only thing casters and melee users can provide over archers is knockdown/stagger which is quite a big thing , but not big enough to compete with the advantages the bow provides .

    The pawn system , I think the idea of it was interesting , but in the end I don't like how it works . Pawns just won't perfrom well , I've tried using the same vocations as the pawn , tried inclination potions , tried exploiting weaknesses as much as possible and I only achieved an OK performance . I've seen some amazing things pawns can do , but how people came to such results I don't know ( click spoiler for examples ) . I wouldn't call pawns useless , but it's sad to see them acting poorly when you know they can do it MUCH better .
    Show Spoiler



    Next thing is class balance , it's shit . The only classes that worth anything are : strider , ranger , assassin and fighter . Take a note how ALL of the bow users made it to the list . Some people might say "Lol faggot , my mystic knight instagibs death with stone forest , sorcerer is a walking aimbot machine of doom and magic archer is the king of BBI ". Well yeah , mystic knight and magic archer are pretty strong late game classes ( although I would say that even in the late game knight is weaker than archers in ranged combat and loses to the fighter in melee ) , but they are very gear and stat dependant and the amount of time you have to grind for them to become effective is pretty scary , while the classes listed above are strong from the beggining and are still good in the late game . About sorcerer , I honestly don't understand how can anybody enjoy magic in this game , because of the horrible fucking delayed casting ! You have to stand still for fucking eternity to cast one spell , even with wyrmking's ring and articulacy augment it still takes a lot of time and you are forced to stay there , praying for the enemies to not touch you, even if some random goblin sneezes on you , your spell will be interrupted , of course you can run around and spam holy bolt , but that's kidna lame , have you really chose a socerer to play a second rate aimbot archer ?
    Now , why I listed strider , ranger , assassin and fighter ? Strider hands down is the best class in the game , to prove this I will first take a look at assassin and ranger . Assassin is good with daggers , his ability to combine them with shields and recieve both damage and speed boost is very strong , his masterful kill allows you to punish anything and everything as well as avoid any melee attack . But the assassin is not as good with bow and his sword skills are there mostly for fun factor as they are weaker than dagger analogs . Ranger is a one button hero , all you do is spam tenfold flurry , a very strong ability , but that's all that is to the ranger , he's also the weakest dagger user in the game . Now strider , strider is a menance with both bow and daggers , his only downside he can't snipe like assassin and ranger , but that doesn't mean shit . Fivefold flurry and downpour volley still hit for a lot of damage , if you equip the ring for halistorm volley you can even outdamage the ranger , you can also play with fracture dart to mess up enemies weak to fire . His skull splitter is one of the hardest hitting melee abilities in the game and with the ring it easily takes place in top 3 . Also strider is the best climber in the game as you get a significant boost to climbing speed by just selecting strider vocation . And fighter has his way mainly due to dragon's maw ability , thanks to it you get a lot of invulnerability frames , MASSIVE stagger/knockdown power ( can even easily drop gorecyclops to their knees ) , the damage isn't that great , but this thing has a pretty big radius , thanks to this move you can lock a lot of enemies and expose them to your party . Despite him not being a damage monster a fighter really has a lot of defense: he wears the heaviest armor in the game , dragon's maw alone makes you an invulnerable ventilator of doom , hindsight strike hits almost as hard ( if not harder ) as dragon's maw while also providing you with invulnerability and high stagger/knockdown power , you can also utilize perfect blocks and divine defense ( not recommended though ) to become a true juggernaut .

    Some people might ask "Why does this matter , the game is so easy it doesn't matter what class you are playing" . Yeah unless you go to the BBI , that's where the shit gets serious . The enemies recieve MASSIVE boost to their defense , attack and health . If you beat Grigori and thought it was ok , than know that , on BBI every "boss" type enemy has more health , attack and defense than him . That's where you begin fighting for every bit of damage you can get and class imbalance really shows . Fortunately , people of Grancis invented rusted , AIDS infected weapons that make any enemy not immune to torpor a joke , so you can still make your way as long as you have enough damage to kill them .

    P.S. Fuck Ur dragon . This is the most badly designed enemy in the whole fucking game . Pure melee classes are fucked , you can kill him as pure melee , but that's like pulling your eye out of it's socket through your ass with your broken arm . The fucking thing jumps around and spins in circles constantly making it hard for you to aim . And sometimes he flies to the tower where you can't even properly damage him and there is no way to make him go down except waiting and if you hide , he flies away forcing you to restart the fight . WHAT THE FUCK ?! What kind of idiot designed this shit ?! Talking about bad design , the retard that made golems ( both of them ) was surely desperately looking for a way to get analy raped by his boss and the game community .

    Game of 2016 of course .​
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • Acknowledge this user's Agenda Acknowledge this user's Agenda x 1
    ^ Top  
  3. Make America Great Again ERYFKRAD Arcane Patron

    ERYFKRAD
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Parrots:
    9,658
    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Sjukob, haven't played with warrior?
     
    ^ Top  
  4. Sjukob Savant

    Sjukob
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Parrots:
    455
    I thought everybody have figured out already that warrior is garbage , that's why I didn't mention him in the post above . He's alright at the very beggining , but turns to shit half-way through the game : very slow hits with long pre and post attack delay , gets outdamaged by fighter , no active defense like shield or mobility ( rolls ) , can't use weapon while climbing , limited amount of abilities , stagger/knockdown power is still lower than fighter's .

    Overall warrior is like an old , retired weightlifter , suffering from spine injuries , who's trying to look cool .
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. Make America Great Again ERYFKRAD Arcane Patron

    ERYFKRAD
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Parrots:
    9,658
    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    :lol:
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Haplo Learned

    Haplo
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2016
    Parrots:
    753
    I'm not saying you're wrong. But I get the feeling you haven't tried everything.
    Like you mention daggers being clearly superior on the Assassin. Maybe so, but they have next to no stagger.
    Well did you try Deadly Gouge? It's awesome. But in fact, I haven't used it much due to another fun skill: Powder Barrage. All the stagger powah you could ever want. Use it and all Dire Drakes and particularly the undead one are your bitches.

    Warriors are also great fun. Their regular hits stagger more then special moves of dagger classes. Exodus Slash makes them nigh-invincible, being both an evasive and offensive manouver at the same time. They have the best regular attack combos, by far, large reach and best jump attacks in the game (well, barring special skills like Skull Splitter, obviously).
    Sure late BBI they seem a bit too slow to compete, when several enemies try to ragdoll you from various directions (like several minos... or Dire Drake tag teams). But before that, they are more then fine.

    Sorcerors need a special mindset, I agree. But people who like to play them, swear by them. You just need to plan ahead, seek safe spots where enemies can't rush you and then you can carpet the battlefield with tactical nukes. Even better if your pawns are also Sorcerors and spell-sync together.
     
    ^ Top  
  7. Haplo Learned

    Haplo
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2016
    Parrots:
    753
    Hmmmm.
    More like he becomes less viable in the final parts of BBI.
    Yes, but his attacks stagger and ragdoll enemies in a pretty large radius, so kinda moot.
    Maybe, if the Fighter is spamming skills. Not if Warrior is spamming jump attacks with Eminence.
    What about Exodus Slash? Full i-frames and ragdolling enemies in front at the same time.
    Ok, though it's mostly a visual thing. But climbing does cost a ton of stamina and generally is not really advisable on Warrior.
    True, but it's never been a yuge problem for me. His regular attacks are far better then any other class.
    :notsureifserious:

    That's like your opinion, man.

    For me the Fighter can't compete with the Warrior. I mean he can due to Dragon's Maw, but then I'd just play the Assassin, who is way more interesting and versatile.
     
    ^ Top  
  8. Hyperion Savant

    Hyperion
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2016
    Parrots:
    830
    Warriors especially excel at going into BBI at low levels without post-game gear. Arc of Deliverance will shave off an entire bar or two of health from bosses, send them flying (hit a garm in the face with it and see what happens!) while other classes are lucky if they even visibly move the bar. Also, Tenfold Flurry is not broken, but it's really good. Tenfold Flurry *with Blast Arrows* is fucking stupid. If you want to kill / farm Death, that, or Ricochet while in the sewers are your only real options without losing a dozen pawns.

    The key to Mages is using low level spells to setup your big, slow, heavy hitting ones. It's unfortunate the game doesn't really tell you leveling up certain basic spells like Levin might not be worth it for a Sorcerer pawn since they'll never cast a first tier spell once they learn the second.

    You can enter Smuggler's Pass, Bluemoon Tower (albeit not the whole thing), and Soulflayer Canyon as soon as you deliver the Hydra head to Gran Soren. Near Soulflayer Canyon is also the female bandit keep with a few good chests. You'll obviously need to save and reload quite a few times, but if you wanna min/max gear, it's something you're prepared for. This sets you up for gear until the Everfall.

    It would, if only I could punch it with something beside my tongue.
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Haplo Learned

    Haplo
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2016
    Parrots:
    753
    Yeah, lots of great loot available at the Soulflyer Canyon early! Exploration can be very rewarding.
     
    ^ Top  
  10. Sjukob Savant

    Sjukob
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Parrots:
    455
    So you want to turn it into 'mah warrior' argument , fine .

    I will repeat , dragon's maw beats everything that warrior can offer . Example , you are beating on the gorecyclops as a fighter you just spin near his legs , knock him down , climb him , take his helmet off and proceed to stab him in the eye .

    As a warrior you can try to savage lung/arc of deliverance his legs , whatever you choose , potentialy taking damage and risking your skill being interrupted , while fighter stays invincible during his spin . Then you can try to climb to his eye and try to hit him with your jump attack , only to find yourself outdamaged by fighter , who is PATHETIC at climbing , but at least can opperate his weapon while clinging to monsters .

    Exodus slash loses to both hindsight strike and dragon's maw , in range and speed for the first , in stagger/knockdown power and in AOE for the second .

    About jumping attack vs skyward slash , I think they are about even in damage , but warrior gets the upper hand because he can stay on the move .

    Fighter's attack come as soon as you press the button , with exception of dragon's maw pre attack delay , but you are invulnerable during that time , unlike warrior .

    Listen , you can complete the game with fists if you want , question is "How much suffering are you willing to tolerate ?" , warrior is the most painful way to experience the game .

    Fighter staggers and knocks down anything around him while being faster than warrior (see dragon's maw , shield slam ) .

    Warrior can hit 1 or 2 enemies with his jump attack , fighter attacks in a 360 degree angle without much risk .

    Inferior to other classes analogs , but yeah I forgot about that skill

    There are situations where it's easier to climb enemies than spamming attacks on them until they fall , also climbing barely consumes stamina until monster is trying to throw you off and if it does that , the party is free to attack it ( I wish pawns were smarter ) .

    Yeah I can agree about basic attacks .

    Again , see dragon's maw , shield slam , they don't require such a large wind up time as arc of deliverance or savage lunge . Dragon's maw also hit's all around you .

    It's not my opinion , if you go search the web you will find that warrior is regarded as the worst class among the DD community . Why ? I explained above .


    I would argue that going to areas where enemies are many levels higher than you , dodging them and obtaining powerful loot is more of the power gaming and exploiting , but whatever .
     
    ^ Top  
  11. Haplo Learned

    Haplo
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2016
    Parrots:
    753
    Well, that's the thing. Warrior doesn't even need to use active skills to stagger and ragdoll enemies. His regular attacks do that.
    I already wrote, in a Dragon's Maw spamming contest, the Fighter wins. But that's assuming unlimited stamina. Plus is kinda boring.

    I'll admit to switching to Assassin for some late game parts which were a pain as a Warrior. I have tried the Fighter as well. And was very unimpressed. Even in stagger competition, the Assassin wins (with Powder Barrage).
     
    ^ Top  
  12. Ebonsword Arcane

    Ebonsword
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Parrots:
    1,328
    Sounds like you never played around with the Mystic Knight's Great Canon/Ruinous Sigil combo. It can be a bit boring to use, but it's unquestionably effective.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. Hyperion Savant

    Hyperion
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2016
    Parrots:
    830




    Doesn't even need Ruinous Sigil. And he has an array of videos for every major BBI fight.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. Modron Arcane

    Modron
    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Parrots:
    1,677
    Does he have videos where he snoozed his way through hundreds of sorcerer levels to get decent magic stat?
    :troll:
    The problem with magic knight/archer is you have to spend so much of the game not playing them to make them really good.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. Sjukob Savant

    Sjukob
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Parrots:
    455
    I've tried that . In BBI my mystic knight was destroying smaller monsters in seconds ( undead , saurians , eliminators , cyclops , wargs etc ) , but when it came to bigger targets ( necrophagous monsters , gorecyclops , bosses except gazer , death , dragons ) the damage output was lower than my fighter's , don't know why though , spent the first 100 levels playing as a sorc . I wasn't able to even scratch death , cursed dragons , killing BBI versions of dragons was also taking quite some time .
     
    ^ Top  
  16. Hyperion Savant

    Hyperion
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2016
    Parrots:
    830
    Damage calculation is odd in the game. You have to break through an enemy's overall defense stat to do damage. After that, you deal flat extra damage for every 1 additional point of str / mag. If you level as a Sorc, you *have* to cast an element on your sword to deal damage, otherwise your strength stat is the only stat used to determine damage dealt. This also applies to skills like Great Cannon. GC has one other caveat where it will do no physical damage if your weapon sucks, because the Arisen's base strength has no bearing on its physical portion (1/3 of the total damage).

    Some of the calculations are so counterintuitive that you have to research them before planning a build if you want to min/max like an autist. Which isn't required in the least in this game.
     
    ^ Top  
  17. Make America Great Again Alienman Arcane Patron

    Alienman
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Parrots:
    5,050
    Location:
    Mars
    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    I finished the game as a fighter, and I kinda agree. I looked upon my hired pawns with envy on what they could do, and the last battle was hilariously frustrating as a pure fighter :)
    Still I find that class most entertaining.
     
    ^ Top  
  18. Make America Great Again ERYFKRAD Arcane Patron

    ERYFKRAD
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Parrots:
    9,658
    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    I like how the game lets me earn just about enough gold to buy the next tier greatsword and hammer every single time. Pretty okay economy, considering I don't buy anything else except the occasional harspud sauce.
     
    ^ Top  
  19. Haplo Learned

    Haplo
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2016
    Parrots:
    753
    Well that or, as a Warrior, you could escort that camp captain, Ser Berne, when you first arrive in Gransys (need to gift stuff to him to max his affinity in the camp first), have a crazy trek trough the scary entire map, get Gryphic Victory, be overpowered and pretty much never worry about weapon upgrades before post-game.
     
    ^ Top  
  20. Make America Great Again ERYFKRAD Arcane Patron

    ERYFKRAD
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Parrots:
    9,658
    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Well, yeah, I didn't feel like doing too much walking back then. Oh well, what the hell, something for new-game+.
     
    ^ Top  
  21. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Parrots:
    11,214
    It's actually even more convoluted than that. If, for example, you use the meteor spell on something super weak to magic but strong against physical (like a banshee) you'll hit for literally 1 damage because while your magic overwhelmed the magic defense by 300 points, the physical was under it by 5. This is only true for some (most? can't be bothered to count) of the sorc spells though. All the lightning ones, for example, totally ignore physical defense. So an enemy super weak to ice might take way more damage from lightning because of that interaction.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Carceri Arcane

    Carceri
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Parrots:
    1,234
    Location:
    Transylvania
    My ranger pawn spams tenfold flurry into Daimon's head like a boss. She also knows to use blast arrows. I'm so proud of her, I'm not gonna throw her into the water anymore, I swear.

    I've been farming Daimon like a maniac. Takes me a few minutes to reach him if I just run up to him and he goes down in like 30 seconds. Took someone's pawn from the friend list along for the runs and I got him around 1 million RC. Now, if only I could get others to do the same for me.
     
    ^ Top  
  23. Make America Great Again Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2014
    Parrots:
    7,101
    fighters and mystic knights can block most of attacks and they have something called perfect block aka you press block just right and usually it either staggers enemy completely for few seconds or in case of mystic Knight it does huge damage and staggers enemy.

    Warriors themselves are pretty fucking powerful though they need to watch out for attacks more. But they dish out absolutely fucking incredible damage as long as you can keep them on foot and working.

    All warriors party is fun to play and that is when consumables come in handy.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. Lazing Dirk Arcane

    Lazing Dirk
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Parrots:
    1,864,753
    Location:
    Shooting up your ride
    Just finished my NG+ hard mode run, mostly as a mystic knight. Got a shit-ton of gold and xp, and didn't have too many issues, though I did run away from that room in the Everfall with a chimera, a gorechimera, a lich, and a bunch of wolves. The one with 2 cockatices was pretty rough too, though that went a lot smoother after chugging a sobering wine and getting in a good stone forest or two.

    Managed to get my mage pawn some dragonforged stuff by switching to equipment just before Grigori pooped his clogs and basically moved over everything my mage had onto my character (except that mage robe thing she was wearing which I could not), and my MK still got a decent shield and armour out of it. I'm about level 83 now and still haven't visited BBI, so I guess once I've had a bit of fun post-game in this run I'll try that. Perhaps not in hard mode though. As neat as MK is, I might switch back to warrior or fighter. Shit though they are against flying buggers, they fit my playstyle better and they're good fun. Currently I'm wondering if I should go assassin for the last levels to 100 for the hella attack bonus. Glass cannon best cannon.
     
    ^ Top  
  25. Make America Great Again Mozg Arcane

    Mozg
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2015
    Parrots:
    2,033
    One thing to know about Mystic Knights is that the elemental shield spells make it much, much easier to hit perfect blocks while they're active. It has to be like a 20 frame window. You have to be fairly tuned up and know the animations like the back of your hand to hit fighter perfect blocks (at least without that perfect block augment) but you can just spam block with an MK + shield spell.
     
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)