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Game Date?

Hazelnut

Erudite
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
1,490
Location
UK
Vault Dweller said:
Hazelnut said:
From what you've said and shown us here about AoD makes me think that the town design wont be crappy after your first pass anyway, although I could be wrong and you may have done a completely shit job. I don't think anything other than actually playing the game and seeing these places in context of the gameplay will help any of us to give an useful perspective on the current quallity to be honest, so it's up to you and your PnP buds.
Once again, here is the starting town. It is an in-game model and it appears exactly as shown here (plus the "floor", of course). It's basically a 3D equivalent of the Spiderweb town design and it looks fucking horrible. It's hard to point at the right upper corner and say "this here is the shady area of the town" with a straight face, which is why I want to split the towns and do a better job there.
I know you're probably mega busy VD, but I feel like you're skim reading what I'm writing here, and not just because I've not changed your mind or anything. (that's not my intention - just trying to help you to consider this as objectively as possible so you can make the right decision, or at least make the wrong one with open eyes) Looking at the overall town plan, it looks a bit silly yes, but it's mainly the walls seeming far too much for the contents. Anyway, how can any of us possibly tell what difference this makes to the game - see underlined text.

I'm not trying to rag on ya here, VD, but either read my posts again when you have a bit of time, or alternatively just read Snails' posts because we're on the same page I think and he's a much better and concise writer than I am.

Oh, and I can wait as long as it takes. I think I'm more worried about burn out on the part of the members of the ITS dev team than I am about how long I have to wait to play it. And by that I mean that the chances of a second game from ITS will be reduced! :?
 

hiciacit

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
406
Location
I've been there
Vault Dweller said:

See, so the layout of the buildings is fine then. Although I would expect the poor quarters and slums to be outside of the wall, and organized in a more organic way. In case of an attack, those people could still flee inside of the barricades, but only the richer would have the benefit of living there. A little bit like early middle age cities I guess.
 

Claw

Erudite
Patron
Joined
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Messages
3,777
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The center of my world.
Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Alternatively I'm thinking the poor quarters could run along the inside of the walls, with the people getting wealthier towards the palace.

But I'm not sure it needs changing either. From what I recall the major concern the last time was the wall's state of disrepair even long after the war.
Maybe the gaps should be filled with rubble or brick walls to indicate that an effort was made to repair the walls.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Hazelnut said:
I'm not trying to rag on ya here, VD, but either read my posts again when you have a bit of time, or alternatively just read Snails' posts...
Will do.

hiciacit said:
Although I would expect the poor quarters and slums to be outside of the wall, and organized in a more organic way.
There is a small shanty town outside the walls:
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/2074/49nn.jpg

Also, this thread:
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=11361
 

ixg

Erudite
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
2,078
Location
Scary...
hiciacit said:
Vault Dweller said:

See, so the layout of the buildings is fine then. Although I would expect the poor quarters and slums to be outside of the wall, and organized in a more organic way. In case of an attack, those people could still flee inside of the barricades, but only the richer would have the benefit of living there. A little bit like early middle age cities I guess.

Could maybe try making most of the wall near the slums crumbled and add a makeshift wooden wall near the palace? Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to add decrepit buildings right on the walls as well.
 

YourConscience

Scholar
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
537
Location
In your head, obviously
Actually, the wall simply looks too new, too shiny. Make it partly caved in at some places and barely repaired by someone clearly not of the right profession. Make the poor houses lean to the wall as if they'd immediately fall down should the wall disappear. Make larger and smaller piles of waste leaning to the wall and the poorer houses. Group and cluster the poor houses more together and let the rich houses stand more apart.
 

Ander Vinz

Scholar
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
645
YourConscience said:
Make the poor houses lean to the wall as if they'd immediately fall down should the wall disappear. Make larger and smaller piles of waste leaning to the wall and the poorer houses. Group and cluster the poor houses more together and let the rich houses stand more apart.
Definitely. I think this will solve your question, VD.
Also Old Camp's outer ring from Gothic maybe the best example of the slums.
 

YourConscience

Scholar
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
537
Location
In your head, obviously
Just to add a little more flavor: Poor people tend to keep all kinds of old stuff no one needs, but you know, one nevre knows for what that old broken bottle might be good for. Hence, besides the piles of waste add also lits of 'stuff' leaning to the poor man's houses, like an old broom or two, half of a wheel and all that.

Such things can be low poly and have crappy textures, which would only add to the shabbiness feeling of the entire place.

With that, the rich man's houses will stand out simply by *not* having all that stuff (or not as much).

In fact, you might even procedurally/randomly generate placings for this litter and change some of the stuff for each new in-game day or whatever time measure. (Or more simpler, randomly remove some of the stuff from the initial manual layout for each day) Then the town will even feel alive somehow without being able to nail down what the reason is. :)
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
What kind of input would be helpful, VD?

I assume that the towns work gameplay wise, so they are fun and offer the things you want them to offer. So the one thing that could need work is style. And the one aspect I would concentrate on is the feeling of post-apocalypse fantasy. That could come across more clearly. That means there must be a stark contrast between a glorious, rich, vibrant past and a drab rundown presence that lives in its remains. Therefore I would work on increasing that contrast.

E.g. that fort-town you show. I like what you did with the palisades used to repair the walls. That's the theme that should run throughout. E.g. the palace looks shiny and intact - how about a closed off west wing, and an ugly brick extension in the back? Maybe there could be a second palace that's completely in ruins, with just the cellar remaining in use. The new houses could have figurines scavanged from the palaces in front, or on the roofs. I think if you can just add more such touches, it would help. The player needs to be able to "read" the different phases the towns went through, and it can't be too subtle.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
I think the suggestions by the last three posters are along the right track. It needs more ugliness or obvious change and repairs along with the building design and details. It would go a long way to making the town feel like it was inhabited by someone different to those that built it. The slums from Gothic 1 would be a good style, I like the idea of the use of wood in contrast to the stone and the buildings built leaning against the wall.
 

Kingston

Arcane
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Jan 13, 2007
Messages
4,392
Location
I lack the wit to put something hilarious here
Good points by recent posters. Contrast would be welcome. When looking at pictures of slums almost always in the distance you can see a rich building. I remember watching one episode of "30 Days" in which an american programmer goes to India to work in the job he originally lost to outsourcing. The contrast there was huge. There were giant glass headquarter buildings, malls, McDonalds etc. and right outside the city centre was a huge slum, where most of the workers actually lived.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
I can remember people telling me of business trips to India where they saw the workers living in shelters made from the cardboard boxes and other scraps from the factory nearby that they worked at and all around there were modern factories and infrastructure and other such things clashing with it.

When you have that kind of environment then anything useful is gathered and hoarded. The stone from old buildings, walls and those pillars that have collapsed and lying on the ground would be taken and used as long as someone wasn't defending it. Only the largest stones would likely be left.
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
If it wasn't we'd personally take turns raping VD. Best RP in the last eight years ending up as vaporware? Not without hefty repercussions.
 

nihil

Augur
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
490
Location
Sweden
Project: Eternity
Jasede said:
If it wasn't we'd personally take turns raping VD. Best RP in the last eight years ending up as vaporware? Not without hefty repercussions.

That's a strong motivation right there. :)
 

Ander Vinz

Scholar
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
645
nihil said:
Jasede said:
If it wasn't we'd personally take turns raping VD. Best RP in the last eight years ending up as vaporware? Not without hefty repercussions.
That's a strong motivation right there. :)
They'll rape him anyway. These buggers are impossible to please.
 

The_Pope

Scholar
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
844
I'd say the town needs a lot more little objects around the place. It looks like someone made a bunch of house models then plonked them down rather than a town. Gardens, crumbling statues, trees, parked wagons, rubbish etc.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
We have these, of course. That's just the overall model.

link

It's an old screen, so don't bitch about the textures/graphics.
 

dnoldavid

Novice
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
1
I AM A LIAR AND A THIEF
Hard to say, really. Look at it this way. Suppose you decide to make a table one day. You figure out that it would take a couple of days and start working. In a couple of days the table is completed and you proudly observe your masterpiece. Hmm... The good news is it's definitely a fucking table and nobody would confuse it with a chair. The bad news is the table leaves much to be desired. In my opinion, at least, but then again, in this particular case, my opinion is the one that truly matters. So, you start tinkering with the table: replace a leg or two, add some drawers, carve some details, and polish this fucker until you hate the day when you decided to make it.
I LIKE TO HIDE ADVERTS BETWEEN TEXT
Here is another explanation. Gothic 3 was shipped when all the pieces were put together. It was a brilliant, but absolutely unpolished game, which is a shame, because
I AM SCUM, I WILL ROB YOU BLIND
a) it almost killed PB and whether or not the studio will recover is unclear.
b) it ruined gameplay for many players and created an impression that the game sucked.
I AM A DISGUSTING UNDERMAN
We are still tweaking the combat system and animations. When we are done, which, hopefully, will be within days, we'll post a combat article with new screens to give you guys something to discuss.[/quote]
I LOVE RAPE


Have u posted any link on combat ,i f yes then plz give me link :roll:
 

Sovy Kurosei

Erudite
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
1,535
Here is a haiku
It's a prose made just for you
Suck, wild slop, you do.
 

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