Hardcore gaming 101's Top 200 best games list

[Riskbreaker]

There are -some- similarities. Like sense of being isolated in these ancient and hostile locales, or KF TAC having interconnected gameworld and also some kinda metroidvania-like elements (like say you need specific spell like fireball in order to remove particular obstacle that prevents you from going further into the gameworld, and you can also use it to access parts of previously visited locations). It is stretching it tho, but it definitely doesn't sound as weird as ROA -> Gothic 2.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I'm impressed in the sense that the list seems to mostly have good games in the genres I'm familiar with. Still, it has its fair share of weird choices. For shoot'em ups, for instance, I don't understand why you'd have Parodius or Twinkle Star Sprites in there, while missing truly genre-defining games like Dodonpachi. The inclusion of Ikaruga on these kinds of lists always makes me wonder whether the author can articulate what they like about the game, or if they're simply following an old hipster hype-train, as well.

 

[Obviousplant]

... but their choices are nice, like recommending Sonic All-Star Racing: Transformed above any Mario Kart. Could be titled "Top 200 cult classic games".

Yeah, like I said, it's a very genre savvy list. Gimmick, Rondo of Blood and Klonoa for platformers, Garegga for shoot em ups, Blood and Jedi Knight for FPS, RoA2, Wiz7 and Arcanum for WRPGs, Panzer Dragoon Saga and Nocturne for JRPGs, Garou: Mark of the Wolves for Fighting games etc. Many games like that which are highly revered amongst retro gamers/genre enthusiasts, but are rarely if ever mentioned by mainstream outlets and top lists like this.

Still, it has its fair share of weird choices. For shoot'em ups, for instance, I don't understand why you'd have Parodius or Twinkle Star Sprites in there, while missing truly genre-defining games like Dodonpachi.

I would've picked Cotton as the token cute em up instead of Parodius, but Twinkle Star Sprites makes perfect sense. It's a very unique mix of shooter and puzzle game, and a great co-op title. There aren't any other games like it. This list obviously aims for diversity, and it definately stands out (same as Ikaruga). That's a likely explanation for why Alpha Centauri was picked but Master of Orion 2 wasn't (or why there's only one Fallout/Thief/System Shock game, no Dark Souls or Tactics Ogre etc): two space strategy games on the same list would've been too much, so the other had to be relegated as an honorable mention (atleast I assume it is one). That's why JA2 and XCOM were picked but Silent Storm is an honorable mention. Though given that, the JRPG list seems too bloated by games that aren't different enough from each other.

Mushihimesama futari is currently the all time highest rated game on competitive shoot em up forums, and it's infamous for having the hardest final boss, so it makes sense that it was chosen to represent bullet hells and Cave's output, since Batsugun is there to represent foundational bullet hells and manic shooters. Still, the ratio between classic shooters and bullet hells is kind of skewed, you'd think that they could've fitted in Ketsui, one of the later Dodonpachi titles or Gunbird 2 or some other Psikyo/Cave title instead of R-type or Gradius.

 

[CryptRat]

This list is particularly decent considering that it's a multi-genre one. It doesn't try to gratify the average young "meme" game player by mentioning every game he has played (remember the guy explaining why AAA inevitably had good reviews, and on the contrary choose the games that the different genre fans praise.

 

[eric__s]

Bought the .pdf, reading it now.

Hey, can you PM me the Barkley one? I'd like to see what they say.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Still, it has its fair share of weird choices. For shoot'em ups, for instance, I don't understand why you'd have Parodius or Twinkle Star Sprites in there, while missing truly genre-defining games like Dodonpachi.

I would've picked Cotton as the token cute em up instead of Parodius, but Twinkle Star Sprites makes perfect sense. It's a very unique mix of shooter and puzzle game, and a great co-op title. There aren't any other games like it. This list obviously aims for diversity, and it definately stands out (same as Ikaruga). That's a likely explanation for why Alpha Centauri was picked but Master of Orion 2 wasn't (or why there's only one Fallout/Thief/System Shock game, no Dark Souls or Tactics Ogre etc): two space strategy games on the same list would've been too much, so the other had to be relegated as an honorable mention (atleast I assume it is one). That's why JA2 and XCOM were picked but Silent Storm is an honorable mention. Though given that, the JRPG list seems too bloated by games that aren't different enough from each other.

Mushihimesama futari is currently the all time highest rated game on competitive shoot em up forums, and it's infamous for having the hardest final boss, so it makes sense that it was chosen to represent bullet hells and Cave's output, since Batsugun is there to represent foundational bullet hells and manic shooters. Still, the ratio between classic shooters and bullet hells is kind of skewed, you'd think that they could've fitted in Ketsui, one of the later Dodonpachi titles or Gunbird 2 or some other Psikyo/Cave title instead of R-type or Gradius.

Thing is, I don't think there's any need to even represent cute'em ups, as it's just an aesthetic - there's no point in having Parodius there if you already have a Gradius. R-Type makes sense, as it's a markedly different style of horizontal shooter, and it also represents Irem as a developer, but Parodius could've easily been replaced with Rayforce, which would act as Taito's representative (and is also a much better game imo).

For Twinkle Star Sprites, I just don't think the game is good or influential enough to make the list. And any "best shmups" list without a Dodonpachi game just feels wrong. Doesn't have to be the first one (I personally like it least), but the series is just so iconically bullet hell, it shouldn't be left out. I honestly would've preferred Daioujou instead of Futari (whose final boss on Ultra isn't the hardest thing danmaku have to offer, but that's beside the point), even.

 

[markec]

Most puzzling of all is this Arcanum article, where they actually recommend Lionheart.

I bet author only played trough Barcelona, in which case its no wonder the games seemed good to him.

 

[Jose Cruz]

Seems like a shitty list, although maybe less shitty than some others.

- More jRPGs than wRPGs? I am pretty open-minded and have enjoyed some jRPGs over the years, but come on now...

The Japanese videogame industry historically has been larger than the American, specially in the late 1980' and 1990's, considering the fact that RPGS are bigger fraction of Japanese videogame industry as well leads me to conclude that it's natural for there to be more great JRPGS than wRPGs. (http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_game_industry)

 

[ArchAngel]

No Mortal Kombat Skyrim in fighting games rpgs list?! I bet it is more popular and liked than any of those non Street Fighter fallout games on the list.

You guys are idiots. MK1 at its time was mind blowing game, nothing in fighting scene was close.

 

[Archibald]

Fighting games are usually valued for their competitive side. MK series fails in this regard and thats why it rarely gets a place on TOP lists.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Not sure why the author lists Star Control 2 as a rpg though. Seems closer to the adventure genre more than anything else.

So did the Codex...

I'm still salty about that. At least Hardcore gaming has the good sense to not categorise Jagged Alliance 2 as a rpg.

Considering games with far less RPG elements(recent games by Bethesda, BioWare and the Polish division of BioWare are a few examples) are constantly categorized as RPGs, I don't see the problem with calling JA2 one.

Ideally, none of them would be, but that's not happening any time soon.

More, I'd say that it would be ridiculous to not categorise JA2 as a RPG when many games without fixed protagonist - like for example Icewind Dale are categorised as such.

It is a RPG and it's much richer in PnP features than most them.

 

[ArchAngel]

Fighting games are usually valued for their competitive side. MK series fails in this regard and thats why it rarely gets a place on TOP lists.

From what I seen MK9 and MKX have big competitive scene in the west. More popular and bigger than any other fighting game. So I got no clue what people are smoking.

 

[Archibald]

Its pretty much tradition that if fighting game doesn't have strong competitive scene in Japan/Asia then its of questionable quality. MvC2 was, for a time, probably most popular fighting game in USA with high level play but lots of people were skeptical of it due to Japan not being very interested in it. Obviously there were lots of questions asked about its gameplay mechanics, but just as often someone would simply say "not played in Japan, must be shit". From my experience Hardcore gaming writers are also a bit more interested in Japan games so naturally they would prioritize fighting games that are either from there or had strong competition there.

 

[ArchAngel]

Ok, that explains it. I don't agree with it but at least now I understand how they come up with the faulty list.

 

[HotSnack]

Fighting games are usually valued for their competitive side. MK series fails in this regard and thats why it rarely gets a place on TOP lists.

From what I seen MK9 and MKX have big competitive scene in the west. More popular and bigger than any other fighting game. So I got no clue what people are smoking.

While I liked NRS recent offerings, the devs (and the NRS fanbase) have something of an identity crisis in that they want the prestige (lel) of having their game being seen as competitive/e-sports, but at the same time constantly bending over to the cries of its casual fanbase of "X is too strong" and patching the games with nerfs/buffs/bugs within the span of few months, or even within the same month.

The traditional mentality of the competitive fighting game community has been lrn2play, which is at odds at the devs inability to leave their game alone to develop a metagame, and their own community's expectations that the devs should "fix" week 1 tactics that they think are too strong (which the devs then oblige and nerf).

MK has a competitive scene, but it's in no way the biggest (wtf?)

 

[Shin]

Strategy is missing at least one grand strategy reference, Shmups is missing Giga Wing, Platformers is missing Shinobi III, RPG's is obviously missing a lot of stuff, how the fuck is Quake (1 and/or 3) and/or Counter-Strike not on the FPS list, on the fighting game list its weird they chose Soul Calibur 2 over 1 or 3 imho.

A pretty solid list nonetheless. I like how they included Arcanum.

 

[ArchAngel]

Fighting games are usually valued for their competitive side. MK series fails in this regard and thats why it rarely gets a place on TOP lists.

From what I seen MK9 and MKX have big competitive scene in the west. More popular and bigger than any other fighting game. So I got no clue what people are smoking.

While I liked NRS recent offerings, the devs (and the NRS fanbase) have something of an identity crisis in that they want the prestige (lel) of having their game being seen as competitive/e-sports, but at the same time constantly bending over to the cries of its casual fanbase of "X is too strong" and patching the games with nerfs/buffs/bugs within the span of few months, or even within the same month.

The traditional mentality of the competitive fighting game community has been lrn2play, which is at odds at the devs inability to leave their game alone to develop a metagame, and their own community's expectations that the devs should "fix" week 1 tactics that they think are too strong (which the devs then oblige and nerf).

MK has a competitive scene, but it's in no way the biggest (wtf?)

It is biggest in the west.

 

[HotSnack]

More, I'd say that it would be ridiculous to not categorise JA2 as a RPG when many games without fixed protagonist - like for example Icewind Dale are categorised as such.

It is a RPG and it's much richer in PnP features than most them.

JA2 should be filed under the strategy genre because it is first and foremost, a strategy game. It's rpg-like mechanics are there to enrich the gameplay. That it does a better job of implementing its rpg-like mechanics than actual rpgs is more of a criticism on those rpgs.

It is biggest in the west.

Yeah I don't know how you are drawing that conclusion. If we're going by Evo 2015 entrance numbers (an American hosted tournament) the number of entrants were:

• Ultra Street Fighter IV – 2227
• Super Smash Bros. for Wii U – 1926
• Super Smash Bros. Melee – 1869
• Mortal Kombat X – 1162
• Guilty Gear Xrd -SIGN- – 968
• Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 – 816
• Tekken 7 – 458
• Persona 4 Arena Ultimax – 437
• Killer Instinct – 397

From my own personal experience: MK is popular with my friends and colleagues who are not normally into fighting games, but play MK because they remember it from back in the arcades. It probably has the largest casual fanbase in the west, but not largest competitively.

 

[United Nations]

A list of best "fighting games" and NO Mortal Kombat!?

GTFO!

 

[Stompa]

Why would MK be on that list? Up until the MK9 the "fighting game" part of its gameplay sucked major balls compared to competitors (of course, 9 was massively unbalanced and I hear X has problems as well, but they're step in the right direction). All it had going for it was fatalities, gore and style.

 

[Superuser]

Mortal Kombat is laughed at by the competitive scene nearly as much as Soul Calibur is. Both of those franchises though are some of the most successful fighting game franchises.

I normally hate the sneering tone of Codexers towards games like Mass Effect, but you'd get the same response in the FGC if you think Mortal Kombat is one of the 'best' or consider it 'serious'. MKX is an earnest attempt to enter the competitive scene and they have put lots of money towards that, but I don't see it lasting. I put the entrance numbers mostly down to the fact it's a new game.

 

[HotSnack]

Strategy is missing at least one grand strategy reference, Shmups is missing Giga Wing, Platformers is missing Shinobi III, RPG's is obviously missing a lot of stuff, how the fuck is Quake (1 and/or 3) and/or Counter-Strike not on the FPS list, on the fighting game list its weird they chose Soul Calibur 2 over 1 or 3 imho.

A pretty solid list nonetheless. I like how they included Arcanum.

I agree that with some oddities aside the list is more monocled than the usual lists that get shuffled out. Considering the amount of prestige the codex got for its top RPG list around the web, I'd imagine a codex top 200 games of all times would be astounding.

 

[Higher Animal]

Mortal Kombat is laughed at by the competitive scene nearly as much as Soul Calibur is. Both of those franchises though are some of the most successful fighting game franchises.

I normally hate the sneering tone of Codexers towards games like Mass Effect, but you'd get the same response in the FGC if you think Mortal Kombat is one of the 'best' or consider it 'serious'. MKX is an earnest attempt to enter the competitive scene and they have put lots of money towards that, but I don't see it lasting. I put the entrance numbers mostly down to the fact it's a new game.

Looks like the FGC is already a joke when VF isn't represented in the top games.

 

[JarlFrank]

Not a perfect list, but it's fine. HG101 is one of the best gaming sites on the web, so not surprising that it's not completely shit.

 

[Superuser]

Mortal Kombat is laughed at by the competitive scene nearly as much as Soul Calibur is. Both of those franchises though are some of the most successful fighting game franchises.

I normally hate the sneering tone of Codexers towards games like Mass Effect, but you'd get the same response in the FGC if you think Mortal Kombat is one of the 'best' or consider it 'serious'. MKX is an earnest attempt to enter the competitive scene and they have put lots of money towards that, but I don't see it lasting. I put the entrance numbers mostly down to the fact it's a new game.

Looks like the FGC is already a joke when VF isn't represented in the top games.

That's one thing I agree on. Sadly the series reached its peak with VF3 and VF fans have been salty since then. I think it has certain other issues, such as the tiny roster of characters, lack of releases for many years and the fact it isn't amazing as a spectator sport.

I'll also add that bringing up VF in this conversation is totally irrelevant. MK is not a competitive game or even a particularly good fighting game, plain and simple. And you compare it with one of the most hardcore fighting games there is?