Vapourware Limit Theory - An Infinite, Procedural Space Game - DEAD

[mikaelis]

I stopped reading at 'Stanford'

Why?

 

[Drax]

I stopped reading at 'Stanford'

Why?

Because Codex, probably.

 

[mikaelis]

So I watched it. The UI is a masterpiece. The AI aka sub-systems (like RPG system for the race development in the context of space and time) are even bigger masterpiece. The problem is:

in becoming as a module for No Man's Sky gargantuous release as an opposition to Star Citizen

Just joking (hopefully).

"The problem" I referred to above, is a second part of the video when he explains the easiness to apply big changes to the game code in 8 minutes that gives coherent (as: not breaking the functionalities of different game systems) effect afterwards. And further, showing the interface that can access the code via meta-commands from "higher level" to mess with the functionalities (sub-systems) on the "lower level".

Frankly, he shouldn't waste his talent on "purely-games" approach anymore...

 

[Leonorai]

Not everything has to be in direct competition with each other, he can still gain enough ground with his own niche and have Star Citizen and Elite get theirs.

The blokes just yawning and throwing snot at his progress, why the fuck are you even in this thread?

 

[Perkel]

His own niche ? Imo he is the black horse of this space race.

Star Citizent looks like single player for few hours mmo shit game, Elite is mmo shit game and that dude want simply Eve online singleplayer without being shit and not having X3 problems.

 

[Leonorai]

Even though you speak like a third grader, you still made my point.

He's not trying to do the exact same thing as both of them, so even if he "fails" at making a better Elite than Elite itself, it doesn't matter.

In the end it has a real good shot at being a proper space title.

 

[Drax]

It's pretty obvious that the scope of this game, in terms of production value, is way smaller than behemots like SC and Elite, that's pretty much part of the premise.
The strong points of LT, imo, have more to do with the structure laid out by the engine, the universe it builds and the flexibility to adopt very different strategies for engaging each gameplay mechanic, be it trade, fleet management, corporate asshatery, faction relationships, etc...

 

[mikaelis]

New update. A bit about trading and its UI. Also traveling nodes - not sure what to think about it yet. It sends the bad vibe of X-Rebirth motorways, but seem to be better thought out and somehow make sense in the context of hundreds of AI trading locally. I hope there is some hyperdrive to travel between systems.

There is also a tool highlighted for generating the assets in the game like stations and ships.

 

[Perkel]

New update. A bit about trading and its UI. Also traveling nodes - not sure what to think about it yet. It sends the bad vibe of X-Rebirth motorways, but seem to be better thought out and somehow make sense in the context of hundreds of AI trading locally. I hope there is some hyperdrive to travel between systems.

There is also a tool highlighted for generating the assets in the game like stations and ships.

His implementation actually looks good in practice. Though X-Rebirth implementation changed along way and it is way better now.

As of hyper drive. Hate it but either way need to use it because it is probably only realistic way to dealing with distance in those games. Though jumpgates i think is better option than hyper drive.

 

[Drax]

IIRC, there are "warp nodes" connecting each system to the galactic "network". I don't know how this mechanic is working right now as it's been a long time since he worked on that aspect.
As always the visuals are beautiful, which isn't surprising since JP specialized in Graphics Programming.
I'm probably more excited about Limit Theory than Star Citizen.

 

[mikaelis]

Yeah, the only concern I have is how he will make the universe diverse, so there are uninhabited systems waiting for discovery and profiteering and established ones where AI is making those neat trade runs across the systems using warp nodes.
As it is procedurally generated, I suppose he will set some "seeds" of AI which will essentially be "inhabited and developed systems" and they will be spreading from those to uninhabited space using some AI algorithm (establishing new warp nodes, stations and so on).
In any case, once he is done with the stuff he planned, it will be modders' task to craft the unique content (story arc, hand-crafted missions etc.).

Perkel taking into account the vastness of procedurally generated universe, gate system may be not such a good idea (unless I am missing something). Some sort of hyperdrive would probably be better, where you would get the coordinates from somebody and warp there.
Actually, scratch the above, there should be both - hyperdrive for primary exploration and gates for more established connections between star systems (it would require building the new gate in the new system - which should be pretty costly, and "re-programming" the existing gate in the established system to add the new route through this gate).

 

[Drax]

First "Road to Beta" update:

The Road to the Beta: Chapter 1

Gooooooood evening ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for showing up here tonight for the grand opening of the weekly Limit Theory Road to the Beta development update series! It's an exciting day, but also a bit scary, since...I've not the slightest idea what an RTB is! I mean...should I...should I tell a joke? Or...pull a small bunny out of my slippers? No no...maybe a card trick!! ._. Hmm...well, we've gotta figure it out one way or another, so I guess I'll just dive in and see what happens...

Back to Basics
During my recent planning-and-mind-orienting week, I put my finger on something that's been bothering me about LT -- something that I thought can and should be attacked immediately during RTB. Generally, that something is the lack of visibility of core features that already exist in the engine. There's so much that already exists. There really is. But with the amount of revisions of various kind that we've been through, it's been hard for any of those features to consistently stay on the surface. Broadly, that's sort of the point of RTB. But even more specifically, this week, I decided to concentrate my firepower on the most basic of those areas: the thing you see first and last, the thing that serves up the direct information about your world and your ship, and, most importantly, the thing that is currently far more empty than it should be: the HUD.

Show Yourself, Limit Theory!
This week we welcome the following new widgets into the repertoire of LTSL-driven (i.e., compatible with the current and final UI) HUD components:

• Minimap
• Target display
• Miniscanner (small scanner output preview)
• Notifications list
• Compact hardpoints control panel
• Fast power distribution widget

Yes indeed, have a look below. You can eyeball the distance to a pack of enemies using the minimap, identify a mineral-rich rock on the scanner, route all power to the forward deflector shields, and even monitor your personal messages, all without leaving home base.


Show Yourself, LT!
Please note that those notifications were added for show; your actual game experience of meeting or not meeting Darth Vader (and of obtaining reasonable prices on tetrite ore) may vary (I cannot be held responsible!)

I've also done away with the bottom menu, which was previously a "menu for the thing I'm flying" menu, and replaced it implicitly with HUD elements (since, it turns out, the HUD is also a "menu for the thing I'm flying"!) In this picture, for example, clicking the minimap will open the system map in a new window. Clicking the scanner preview will open the full scanner display. Clicking any of the targeted objects from the top-right will open their information window. The same applies to clicking any of the hardpoints in the bottom-left lattice. Concretely, this just means that the HUD is fast and simple to use. Although I wasn't able to complete a 'ship summary' widget in the week, I hope to add it as the last (major) missing piece, since it will then provide a link to opening the player's ship window.

Hardpoint Control Groups
Every good cap ship pilot knows that having lots of weapons calls for having weapon groups! After all, sometimes bringing down a mosquito doesn't require all the nukes. LT now has equipment groups, and the implementation is very simple. Several control group buttons live alongside the hardpoint nodes. One of these group buttons is always selected at any given time. Right-clicking (or performing an equivalent joy / gamepad action) on a hardpoint node will toggle whether that hardpoint is to be 'active' or not under the current control group (colors and opacity indicate whether the hardpoint is active). The group will remember these toggles, so that when you switch between groups, they'll be preserved. Simple! The number of available control groups can easily be changed as a setting.

It's also worth mentioning that the hexagonal lattice layout of the hardpoints is due to a new layout widget implemented this week. The reason I mention is because I'm quite excited to use these lattices in other places. They're ultra space-efficient, but, more than that, I'm seriously impressed by how good they look with comparatively-few frills (compared to a square lattice, for example.) Practical and attractive? Now that's a layout I could fall in love with...!

On-the-Fly HUD Customization

It's nice to finally have some stuff populating the HUD, but no doubt we're all going to have our own opinions of what should go where and how big it should be. In fact, your answer will almost certainly depend on the role(s) that you choose to pursue in game. For this reason, I created a simple and easy mechanism to allow players to customize their HUD without ever leaving the game. By toggling the HUD's "Edit Mode," HUD widgets will be converted into their proxy 'containers' -- big rectangles -- which can then be repositioned, resized, and (in the future) disabled and reconfigured.

This means that a single touch of a button turns this...


HUD #1
Into this!


HUD #1 Edit Mode
From here, we can literally just drag or shift-drag (to resize) these boxes and place them however we like. There's a grid-snap key as well. In no time at all we can have something like this...


HUD #2 Edit Mode
And now just say the magic word (key) and we get...


HUD #2
Try tabbing between the first and last images at full-res so you can see the difference! Naturally, more extreme examples are also possible...


Minima--

I'm very serious about exploration. VERY SERIOUS.
In the future, I'd love to add the ability to individually configure each widget (see those gear buttons in edit mode? Some day...). It'd be fantastic to be able to choose the behavior of your minimap, resolution of your scanner preview, shape of your center reticle, etc. all without ever having to leave the HUD (well, in edit mode). But for now, the point is already accomplished -- to give the player some power over that functionality! To let them feel and take control over what LT has to offer. Between having more content available to access from the HUD as you roam around, and having much more power to shape it, there's quite a difference in the feeling of game tactility between last week and today.

Now then! RTB is a merciless companion, so if you'll excuse me, I've got to barrel right on through into the next one. Please feel free to critique the RTB style or make suggestions if the format isn't doing it for you. But also keep in mind that I'm just starting to figure this out...I'm sure the process will get more entertaining From my end, though, this first week of testing the RTB ideology worked out really well! Less stress than a monthly video, but, hour-for-hour, I'd say a fair bit more productive as well. I remain very optimistic about this road :D

See you next week!

~Josh

PS ~ I'm aware that the green health indicator on the side of the reticle sorta sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of color right now :T

Source: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-infinite-procedural-space-game/posts/1107942

 

[Blaine]

Remember, this young kid's creating this game all by himself.

He's easily worth two-thirds of a Cleve, 1.3 Blaines, 4 Prospers, 20 Crispies, or 314,159 Bradylamas, depending on your chosen system of measurement.

 

[St. Toxic]

Looks boring as hell.

It looks worse with every update.

 

[Drax]

The Road to the Beta: Chapter 2

Well hello again...can you believe it's already (past) that time of the week?! I can't either! In fact, I've spent the last 46 hours trying desperately to let go of week 2 but...the end did not come easy...there's too much fun around every corner now, I'm really going insane...but...I guess it's a good insane? Anywho, you know how it is -- when the code calls, you listen

(Disclaimer: All jokes aside, I really am a "bit" on the crazy side right now from the past two sleepless days, in which I was inexplicably yet completely possessed by LT coding to the point of not being able to give it a rest...so please forgive me if I'm not so as coherent as usual...it's for a good cause! )

Alright...let's take a look at week 2!

Now Show Me More...
Last week we focused on making some of the basics more visible to the player via the HUD. But there's still a whole lot left to uncover. In week 2, I continued to focus my attention in the general direction of "uncovering that which already exists," but now starting to look towards things larger than the HUD. I wanted to reclaim higher visibility of the details of objects, cargo, hardpoints, assets, so on and so forth -- some juicy stuff! Show me the numbers! Show me the shapes! SHOW ME THE UNIVERS--eh, alright, maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.

Since my mind isn't functioning at full capacity right now, I think pictures are going to speak more powerfully for my week of work than I can. So, behold, here's what an 'object' looked like in the UI at the beginning of the week:

Hmmm. Not too enlightening. Of course, some types of objects would have shown a little more, and there was a lot of stuff in progress under the hood. But this week, I am much happier to say that I can actually show you something that looks like part of a game:


(WIP) Object Overview
Welcome to the new object interface -- this time, a serious push toward getting it in beta-capable working order! This particular 'overview' tab is intended to be a quick summary of basic information, as well as rendered depiction of the object. Much like the HUD, it offers a selection of smaller 'summary' widgets. Note that, also like the HUD, these summary widgets act as 'links' to more detailed information (clicking the cargo summary links to the cargo tab, clicking the location links to the object interface for the current location, etc.) Although I wasn't able to finish it this week, I'll have hardpoints overlaid on the hologram, so that subsystem information is available here as well. But there's more...I wanted to take a splash in as much of the object interface as possible, so why not...


(WIP) Cargo Management
Cargo! At least until something more exciting came up...


(WIP) Asset Management
Assets!

Reach Into Your Heart
The object interface is really the heart of all UI-based information and interaction in LT. Nearly every other major UI is, in some way, a part of (or related to) this one. For example, the market, with which we're all familiar from the work shown in the last video, is naturally a part of a (trading) station's object interface:


"Market, I am Your Father" ~ Darth Object
So the drive to complete the object interface is, in reality, a drive to bring together and finalize all previous UI work. I pushed hard into it this week, which resulted in a major explosion of newvisible content. That being said, since the effort was spread, none of these pieces individually are perfect as of yet (hence the perhaps-unnecessary 'WIP' on the captions...oh man...letting go of perfection now on a weekly basis is truly the ultimate personal challenge...). Next week I'll no doubt be filling in more of the incomplete pieces. For me, the most important thing right now is to uncover as much of the game as possible -- to reconnect with the player-side experience before progressing onward to finishing the game itself.

---

There are so many details to talk about just from the new shots above, but the point of RTB is not details. So I'll choose one detail and call it a day...fair? You have to let me get excited about some small detail...! To make navigating the interface fast, I've chosen to go with these little circular icon 'tabs.' I'm obsessed with these things. They glow. They make a little click when you press them. It's relaxing. I could do it for hours. When you have a hard day at work, just come on home, boot up LT, and start flipping these things back and forth.

Example Ship Interaction Bar. Very Soothing.

Example Player Interaction Bar. Even More Soothing.
On a side note, won't it be a fun day when we can open that 'messages' tab and use it for AI communication? Not today I'm afraid, but hey, the icon is already there

---

Well, week two of RTB has come and gone, and I'm growing ever-more-convinced that we're moving faster than before. Ultimately, I'd still like to compare one month of RTB toe-to-toe with the previous methodology, but at this rate, I think the answer is going to be a happy one

And of course, in closing, a shot of this new stuff in context!


It's a Family Name.
See you all again next week! And, with any luck, I'll be a bit more rested and entertaining :T Thanks for bearing with me today!

PS ~ I don't know if you noticed, but I'm having a kind of mid-life crisis with respect to deciding on flowing, circular forms or hard edges I'll figure it out sooner or later...in the mean time, feel free to tell me whether you prefer the style of the market (more angular) to, for example, the style of the asset management UI (more circular / smooth)!

Dat UI.

 

[Executr]

So, Josh, the developer seems to have disappeared. It might be normal for many developers to not give news about updates for long periods of time, but this isn't usual for Josh because he was very active on the game forums. He even had daily dev logs, which he has dropped in the beginning of this year. Add to that, he recently switched from the long monthly video updates for weekly smaller updates in order to optimize his work on the game. Now, he only released 2 weekly updates, the last being on the 23rd of January. Ever since, he hasn't given any news and it seems the last day he has logged in on the forums was on 1st of February.

I sincerely hope that, as a backer but mainly as a gamer, he didn't run away with the money for some tropical island or fell sick, but that he is preparing something big that will drop everyone's jaws.

 

[Drax]

He's probably finishing up Skynet by now

 

[tarasis]

More likely he finished Skynet and then it killed him

 

[Perkel]

HE is doing skynet 2.0

 

[Executr]

He's alive!

Source: RPS: https://archive.today/OnIF2

Parnell Confirms Continuing Limit Theory Development

Until February, development of the successfully Kickstarted open-world space sandbox Limit Theory had been extraordinarily well documented. Creator Josh Parnell has been enormously vocal with backers and followers, posting detailed updates to the KS page and the game’s forums. Then, in early February, the usually active Parnell went quiet. Last night, we got in touch and received confirmation that development is ongoing and that regular communication will resume in the near future.
Since Limit Theory’s Kickstarter receiving $187,865 in late 2012 (nearly four times its desired $50k), Parnell has been keeping detailed documentation of the development process. Daily posts described what’s been going on with the game until January of this year. The last post, on January 9th, promised more details about the HUD for the next day. He continued to post to the forum up until the 1st February, however.
One of the last posts he made on 1st Feb explained how despite anxiety issues, he was then feeling more confident and secure with the game than he had in a long time.

“For once — perhaps in the entire development process of LT — I feel that I am living up to what you all expect of me. What a feeling. But more than that, it is the feeling that my dream is really, actually coming to life with alarming speed, right here on my screen. And that yes, it can actually be everything I wanted it to be.”

Both the Limit Theory and Josh’s personal Twitter have been quiet since January.
I sent an email to Parnell yesterday, hoping to hear positive news and, in a candid response, he explained that he has been working on Limit Theory despite unrelated matters that have caused him to cut back online communication.

In terms of everything being OK, though, well, here you have it — “everything is going to be OK!” I’ve never, ever considered abandoning LT, and I continue to work to the best of my abilities each day.

As you might expect after such a sudden decrease in communication, some on the game’s Kickstarter comments started to fear that the game might never appear. That seemed unlikely after two and a half years of meticulously detailed development and in his response to our email, Parnell assured us that his recent lack of online communication does not directly relate to Limit Theory and certainly isn’t indicative of abandoned development.
That’s splendid news for several reasons. The game is utterly fascinating in many ways, as my inability to pick out a single highlight from our previous coverage illustrates, and I’d be disappointed if it never found its way onto my PC. Then there are the Kickstarter backers, of course. As well as chipping in with funding, many of them have been involved in the conversations around development since the early days.
Mostly, it’s good to hear directly from an optimistic Parnell after this uncharacteristic period of online silence. Hopefully we’ll be able to bring you more details of the progress made in the last couple of months shortly.

 

[Drax]

Good, I was starting to think he was a stiff.

 

[Perkel]

Any idiots with two eyes could see that he is going to reek milions in future and that is completely beside how dudes videos looked like (super hyped in each video)

Imo he works on big updated possibly beta release and soon release.

 

[tripedal]

Gotta say I'm still extremely skeptical about how this is going to turn out. The game does look incredible in the videos, but he hasn't really shown much of the true "core" (empire building etc) or how everything fits together, or how the AI operates in the world, etc. which are the most difficult bits.

The project is SO ambitious, and he's doing it solo, in a relatively short amount of time, and he was showing signs of burn-out...just consider the fact that Egosoft has 20 employees and it took them 3 years to make the piece of shit that was X:Rebirth, despite their deep experience in the genre.

If he does pull it off, it will certainly be a Major achievement. He'll be the new Carmack, perhaps even more.

 

[Executr]

That's my concern as well, I feel he is lacks focus. He's wasting to much time with the UI.
Now that he's become a hermit, he might surprise us, but I'm growing skeptical.

 

[Perkel]

Gotta say I'm still extremely skeptical about how this is going to turn out. The game does look incredible in the videos, but he hasn't really shown much of the true "core" (empire building etc) or how everything fits together, or how the AI operates in the world, etc. which are the most difficult bits.

The project is SO ambitious, and he's doing it solo, in a relatively short amount of time, and he was showing signs of burn-out...just consider the fact that Egosoft has 20 employees and it took them 3 years to make the piece of shit that was X:Rebirth, despite their deep experience in the genre.

If he does pull it off, it will certainly be a Major achievement. He'll be the new Carmack, perhaps even more.

Yeah but Egosoft has at its helm BERND aka human chimpanzee who can't figure out what he want to do with X game. Let's make it console game ?! Whoaa consoles don't have that much power to run it ! Fullstop we are going back to PC ?! Whoaaa game has 3/10 metacritic ?!!! I AM AWESOME TASTE MY NIPPLES !!??

As of lack of progress are you people really that idiotic ?

I mean if you fallow his dev updated you see how he every month or two add significant amount of stuff.

As of UI. UI is second most important thing to game. You can ship broken game with good UI but you can't ship good game with broken UI.