Silent Hill series, a review.

[Ash]

Resident Evil was 2/3rds prerendered stuff and yet neither the prerendered nor the 3D parts look noticeably better than SH's full 3D.

Eh I've gotta disagree with you there. The whole point of pre-rendered backgrounds was for superior visuals, which comes with the cost of some gameplay limitations (forced camera perspective). As a result early 3D games look like ass (which I do not mind at all, graphics should be one's last concern of course) while pre-rendered 90s games often look better than plenty modern games.

Resident Evil 3:

Was just sayin, Silent Hill 1 looks pretty decent despite being fully 3D. Even with the classic PS1 texture warping and whatnot (that just adds to the surrealism of the whole experience anyways).

 

[Average Manatee]

Well you've chosen an outdoors visual with lots of bright, contrasting colors. Obviously it stands out next to a boring, drab bar in a boring, drab town. You also don't have RE's 3D models present showing how horrible they look next to one another.

Compare your SH1 bar with the RE3 equivalent:

 

[Ash]

Still looks better. Also for some reason that image there is a little overly pixelated and not true to source. Check the zombie getting shot for instance. That's not what the game looks like.

There's also a strange rectangle above Jill's head/the door which looks added in.

Edit: nah that's a ceiling fan lol.

 

[Average Manatee]

It looks a lot worse in motion IMO. And Silent Hill's dynamic lighting looks amazing for a PS1 game whenever you are in a location meant to be scary, with monsters actually sneaking up on you out of shadows rather than out of badly placed camera angles.

 

[Ash]

Gotta be kidding bro. It's one of the best-looking PS1 games.

Timestamp of 10:52 for the bar. Well, and the alley behind it so you can admire the excellent graphics and art.



Hmm my bad that's the PC 2006 release. Not sure of the graphical differences if any but there's bound to be at least a resolution increase.

 

[Average Manatee]

Here's a PSX playthrough, around 14:30. Definitely a lot less detailed than yours.



It has more stuff in scenes, but when you compare it to Silent Hill's areas with actual darkness and the otherworld, I'd say SH pulls ahead. RE looks absolutely cartoonish in comparison.

 

[Perkel]

Mind you people that PS1 games were played on CRT TVs that smoothed a lot image and they never were intended to be on LCD technology

For example FF6 on LCD and CRT:

Mind you that above is just reproduction and not actual photo of CRT with FF6 on it. On actual CRT it would look even better.

You would never see pixelated prerendered background because between each pixel there was "healthy" blackline that smoothed out those rought edges. Modern LCD have such thin space between pixels that they actually skewer image proportions and game doesn't even look like it was intended to look.

here is RE1 on actual CRT and you can see there is no pixelated background, black separation looks bad close up but it works really well at distance:

 

[Great Deceiver]

The dude is playing in a room straight out of Resident Evil, that's for sure. Check out the grime at 3:23.

 

[Kitchen Utensil]

Do we know anything about the Resident Evil 2 Remake yet?
Probably won't be pre-rendered backgrounds, right? :/

 

[the_shadow]

Multidirectional I took your advice and began playing SH2. I'm at the Silent Hill Historical Society which I'm guessing something like 60% of the way through the game. To be honest I'm struggling to appreciate it, and like some others ITT I think Silent Hill 1 is notably better than 2 (so far at least).

Reasons (some already mentioned by others in this thread):

-The Otherworld is toned down big time. I barely noticed I was even in the Otherworld at the hospital. Sad. It was the most memorable thing about SH1 and I had been anticipating entering that nightmarish realm of my childhood once more.
-Resource management/distribution. Currently I have 6 health bottles, 7 medkits, 4 ampules, 100 shotgun ammo and 40 handgun ammo? Are you shitting me? I haven't even been playing optimally either. Didn't even realise you could kick enemies who were down for an easy kill for quite some time.
-The enemies (so far) are all slow, similar to one another and just not really a threat. What happened to flying demons and rabid hellhounds?
-The soundtrack is a bit underwhelming. It's nice during story segments, but ambient exploration and otherworld music? Has nothing on the pants-shitting original, and isn't very memorable at all.
-Because of all the above reasons, it's somewhat less scary than the original, in addition to things like less challenging, less intriguing, less intense then cathartic.
-Hospital again? Really?
-The apartments don't really serve any greater purpose other than to gate off the player (as another codexer mentioned). In the original you go to the school to find your daughter. Big investment there. The apartments you are there...because.
-Little to no gameplay innovation over the original.

That said, it still gets plenty right. It still is Silent Hill. The graphics are nice. Voice acting an improvement on the original's (main issue with the original's was the five second long pauses between each and every sentence). And the controls are probably slightly better than the original. Overall, in all the things that matter it feels like I'm playing Silent Hill 1 Alpha or something though.

Why do some people ITT think it's better than the original? Explanation pls?

A lot of your observations are spot on. The horror element is definitely ratcheted down, and the combat difficulty is way easier than Silent Hill 1. I don't see Silent Hill 2 as 'horrifying', so much as 'creepy' and 'depressing'. As another poster said, things really get going after the Historical Society.

 

[ghostdog]

The sound also adds a lot to the horror in SH1. Yamaoka did some amazing work with his creepy ambient sounds which could really crank up the tension in many places. In SH2 he didn't use that much the same techniques and went with a more atmospheric style, which is fine.

 

[Perkel]

The sound also adds a lot to the horror in SH1. Yamaoka did some amazing work with his creepy ambient sounds which could really crank up the tension in many places. In SH2 he didn't use that much the same techniques and went with a more atmospheric style, which is fine.

It is, same with "horror" element. But like i said before it has to do with SH2 story and fits a lot better SH2 than SH1 ost or horror element.

Same with SH3. While SH3 is direct sequel to SH1 using cues from SH1 also wouldn't make a sense considering story of SH3.

Imo difference between SH1-SH2 and SH3 in tone and horror element is what makes this series so good. Unlike all of other games developers made deliberate choices to shift tone of game and visuals according to story of game rather than make shit up because gamers want horror so let us put dogs and flying devils from SH1 into SH2 or like movies put Piramid head in SH3 because it was iconic enemy in SH2.

If you don't follow overarching story of SH games it is easy to misunderstand some details like tonal shift of SH2 compared to SH1. Though it is rather hard to follow if you don't spend time trying to understand story and overarching plot of SH games.

Why those choices were made (don't read if you still play some SH game, read only part about game you finished)

SH1:

Spoiler

Everything you see is from little child nightmares. Which is why you see dogs, flying devils, everything made out of rusted fence, mutilated bodies etc.

SH2:

Spoiler

Everything you see is James rendition of SH with his own guilt. Just like Angela Orosco saw Silent Hill constantly in fire he sees it through his own lense as this foggy decaying town with enemies drived by his sexual desires, maria coming out out of his wish for meeting his wife and at the same time wishing she was not sick but alive and lively etc.

SH3:

Spoiler

Everything is due to that infant in Heather trying to make her despair. Which is why she sees so much occult stuff.

 

[One Stoned Bastard]

The first was nice, Konami wanted a Resident Evil cash-in, thankfully the developers made something a bit different and creepier (though RE had nice gameplay). The sequel is considered to have some of the best plot and art direction in video games and not without good reasons. The third is a continuation of the first with the production value of 2. The fourth is weird and unpleasant to play (in a bad way, not horror way) but kinda interesting. The western-made Silent Hills suck dick.

 

[Perkel]

The fourth is weird and unpleasant to play (in a bad way, not horror way) but kinda interesting.

And it is pretty hilarious that management wanted to "improve" SH giving it better combat and in process they fucked up SH4. Story wise SH4 is actually pretty great like rest. Maybe not SH2 level but surely SH1/SH3 level story wise. Combat and weird pacing is what makes it worst game of all SH games made by japanese but still is interesting games to play if loved SH1-3

The western-made Silent Hills suck dick.

True but not for all of them. Shattered Memories for Wii and PSP is legit good SH game.

What amazing about it is that game expects you to think it is just another shitty SH game and plays with it. It is hard to explain things without spoiling but trust me on this load
PPSSPP emulator (works really amazing these days) and try to finish it.

While it isn't completely at SH1-3 level it gets really really really close to them. Just not in the way you think about SH games.

I played both PSP and Wii version and PSP version isn't that worse than Wii version.

 

[Multidirectional]

Reasons (some already mentioned by others in this thread):

-The Otherworld is toned down big time. I barely noticed I was even in the Otherworld at the hospital. Sad. It was the most memorable thing about SH1 and I had been anticipating entering that nightmarish realm of my childhood once more.

If you are looking for more hellish SH1 style visuals you might like SH3, it's direct continuation of that lame "evil cult" storyline from SH1.

-Resource management/distribution. Currently I have 6 health bottles, 7 medkits, 4 ampules, 100 shotgun ammo and 40 handgun ammo? Are you shitting me? I haven't even been playing optimally either. Didn't even realise you could kick enemies who were down for an easy kill for quite some time.
-The enemies (so far) are all slow, similar to one another and just not really a threat. What happened to flying demons and rabid hellhounds?

You are correct, SH2 is indeed easier. I don't find that relevant because I don't play these games for their crappy combat. Never even play them above Normal difficulty. To me they are basically horror adventure games that I occasionally return to for that unique atmosphere that was never repeated in any games again. Again, you might like SH3 if challenging combat is what you're looking for, that game throws a lot of really annoying enemies at you. I personally think it sucks but you might disagree.

-The soundtrack is a bit underwhelming. It's nice during story segments, but ambient exploration and otherworld music? Has nothing on the pants-shitting original, and isn't very memorable at all.

Can't agree there. I highly prefer melancholic soundtrack of SH2 to that noisy industrial style of SH1.

-Because of all the above reasons, it's somewhat less scary than the original, in addition to things like less challenging, less intriguing, less intense then cathartic.

First time playing SH2 was less scary than first time playing SH1 back in the day for me, no doubt. SH2 has, however, held up over multiple playthroughs much better. It has more subtlety than SH1, or any other game in the series. I like the idea of a town that brings inner demons of people way better than that "lol evil satanic cult" crap from SH1/3 and thus I cannot agree that is less intriguing.

Why do some people ITT think it's better than the original? Explanation pls?

Another thing is pacing. I find that weirdness in SH2 escalates slowly throughout entire game and thus manages to remain intriguing until the very end. Everything that comes after Historical Society is a very nice payoff to everything that came before with James descending into his madness as represented by botomless pits he keeps jumping into until he's finally able to man the fuck up and face his guilt. I cannot say the same thing about SH1 which I found on repeat playthroughs to drop significantly in quality after Hospital, where I think it peaks. And running around the Otherworld town constantly dodging those fliers and dogs near the end game is simply irritating and not scary at all to me. After Hospital it becomes "been there done that" basically with no additional surprises.

And the controls are probably slightly better than the original

Being able to disable tank controls is not a "slight" improvement to me but a major one.

 

[Perkel]

Multidirectional

Delete your post mang or at least that bit about James. He is still playing it and you are spoiling stuff.

 

[Multidirectional]

Fuck that. If he can't finish a 6 hour long game before he starts complaining about it - let it be spoiled. Doesn't seem like his kind of game anyway.

 

[Ash]

You are correct, SH2 is indeed easier. I don't find that relevant because I don't play these games for their crappy combat.

Game difficulty ties directly into horror, overall investment, atmosphere and immersion. It's difficult to be scared when the enemies don't pose a notable threat. It's difficult to feel weight of my actions and be immersed in the experience (as I was with SH1) when there is a lack of consequences. Death should be ever-looming, as it is with every good survival horror. Thankfully, while the difficulty is lacking regarding inventory management and combat you still have to use your brain regarding navigation and puzzles.
It's still gameplay decline over SH1, even if SH gameplay has always been mediocre. And it's very relevant in brain engagement (plain old entertainment), level of investment, atmosphere and immersion, blah blah blah as I explained above. SH1 gameplay was mediocre by old school standards, but even it (and SH2) makes a lot of modern games look like hot garbage in that regard.

Regarding spoilers: thanks for the concern, but I've already read a bit too much into the game (checking reviews when first deciding if I should play it, reading through this thread when I started losing interest in the game etc). Still going to continue though. It's not a bad game.

 

[Multidirectional]

I don't know what to tell you. Clearly the things I love SH2 for are not things you could love it for. SH3 is a lot more "difficult" yet I don't find it any scarier, only irritating as fuck.

 

[Ash]

We'll see. Still yet to wrap it up and form a conclusive understanding of the experience. Gameplay decline is gameplay decline though, and none of you deny it, only justify it with atmosfag and storyfag-biased responses. A game can and should deliver at least acceptably on all fronts, but absolutely never should have a bit too far declined gameplay.

Anyway, love this chill lounge/mall/bowling alley music:

 

[Multidirectional]

Gameplay decline is gameplay decline though, and none of you deny it, only justify it with atmosfag and storyfag-biased responses.

Yeah atmosfag and storyfag. This is one of very few games with shit gameplay I can keep replaying for those reasons. I thought it was common knowledge that Silent Hill is to be enjoyed for these things specifically and I didn't even realise that someone could possibly like them for gameplay until you came along. Maybe you'll even become the only person here who thinks SH3 is better than 2? Would be interesting.

 

[Ash]

Gameplay is what you spend 90% of the time doing. Of course it's important even in SH, and even disregarding the ties into horror, immersion, atmosphere etc I explained before. Don't be gay, if SH had no combat, puzzles, inventory management and navigation it'd be linear walking sim garbage that you'd appreciate a lot less, and you know it.

And no, I mainly like Silent Hill 1 for horror and atmosphaggotry, but again the gameplay is still both highly important and ties directly into those things. Not to mention provides brain engagement and general entertainment, rather than walking sim.

 

[Multidirectional]

I was talking about combat mainly, not puzzles or navigation. Of course it wouldn't work as a linear walking sim. Was there a single one of those that actually "worked"? I assume you mean "resource management" when you say "inventory management" and you have a point there, there's too many resources that game gives you on Normal difficulty. That is not enough for me to like SH1 more. I've replayed all three games not that long ago. Found SH1 a bit tiring by the end even if Nowhere was a cool enough area, SH2 consistenly enjoyable from start to finish and SH3 was plain irritating and I regretted not setting combat difficulty to "Easy". I do go for highest difficulties in majority of games I play but I don't care about that in SH, they are strictly about atmosphere for me.

 

[Ash]

You were referring to gameplay in a general/overall sense if we are to take your post literally, but yes the combat is the worst aspect. Yet still important. Without it resource management would be less involved, exploration/navigation less rewarding, and it'd be a bit boring always running from everything. Plus some of the most tense moments are when you're walking through a hallway weapon drawn, radio static blaring, camera angle ruining your day, low on ammo wondering what monstrosity you have to face next.

Minor subjective thing but I also prefer the radio static sound effect in the original. Not sure if weird nostalgic emotional attachment or it's just a more scary sound in itself, at least to me. Probably a weird thing to say or think yet it's come to mind a few times while playing.

 

[Multidirectional]

You were referring to gameplay in a general/overall sense if we are to take your post literally, but yes the combat is the worst aspect.

Yes, my fuck up. I used word "gameplay" incorrectly and thus confused you.