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The Codex, common decency, and Pete Hines

Trash

Pointing and laughing.
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
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The way I see it is that, we are 10 years past the information revolution (a real revolution), and I don't know if you noticed, it is starting to borrow deep into us. This day and age people (especially early teenagers) judge other people by what software they use - OS, web browser, instant messaging and more, but it doesn't end there, they also judge other people by which e-community they frequent.

There is a difference between a community that harboring a few wild kids, to a community that is overrun by them. In the last year this place, as a whole, turn in to something that some people here don't want to affiliate themselves with.

Anyways, Twinfalls is right, the over-the-top venom is pretty lame, but I think as the average age of the Codex poster falls it's only going to get more common.

Quoted these two for being the absolute truth. It's not bad that there are plenty of young people here. What's bad is that an atmosphere has been created where sprouting one liners and retarded posts isn't looked down on, but is considered cool. The quality of the codex is falling, and I don't see it getting any better soon. We used to be elitist cunts that argued everything, now this place is filled with pre-adolescents sprouting insults and lulz.
 

MF

The Boar Studio
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Developer
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906
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Naked Ninja said:
Or, you could judge him within the context of the range of human experience, from Hitler to the mugger on the street to mother Tereasa. Your melodramatic claim that he is vile is just...melodramatic. Context indeed.


Yes. I also saw an image of Pete Hine's head photoshopped onto Goebbels body. I think being compared to Joseph Goebbels as a PR man is about the biggest compliment you can get, professionally, intended or not.
 

Twinfalls

Erudite
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Jan 4, 2005
Messages
3,903
obediah said:
What kind of ninja debate shit is this? You cut out the last paragraph of my post, rephrase it, and then post it as if I had taken the opposite stance.

Apologies for that. The two-parter threw me, I read the 'he deserves no respect' as some kind of justification for personal shit, despite your 'that said, it's over the top' closer. As for the rest of your sentiment, we seem to have something of a difference in views on what constitutes basic decency. I haven't said anywhere that Hines should not be criticised or even ridiculed here. My point is that this can be done in a manner which doesn't descend to that playground-in-the-sewers level.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Ismaul said:
Vault Dweller said:
The issue in question here is not the criticism but its quality (or lack thereof).
All that is of quality has been said and done.
I've heard this argument before. It was used to explain why the lulz are teh future - everything of quality has been said before. I disagreed then and disagree now. We exposed Bethesda's lies and attempts to mislead and misinform not to score cool points and come up with great one-liners but to inform the gaming public that Bethesda is not a trustworthy developer and that anything they say should be taken with a bucket of salt. Judging by the results we've greatly succeeded there and all the Codex needs to do is to continue its campaign. Going overboad though reduces the effect of the campaign and in the end defeats the original purpose.
 

Ismaul

Thought Criminal #3333
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Vault Dweller said:
Ismaul said:
Vault Dweller said:
The issue in question here is not the criticism but its quality (or lack thereof).
All that is of quality has been said and done.
I've heard this argument before. It was used to explain why the lulz are teh future - everything of quality has been said before. I disagreed then and disagree now. We exposed Bethesda's lies and attempts to mislead and misinform not to score cool points and come up with great one-liners but to inform the gaming public that Bethesda is not a trustworthy developer and that anything they say should be taken with a bucket of salt. Judging by the results we've greatly succeeded there and all the Codex needs to do is to continue its campaign. Going overboad though reduces the effect of the campaign and in the end defeats the original purpose.
I mostly agree with you. I meant that our criticism is reactive to what is presented to us. And on that side, we have pretty much beaten the proverbial dead horse, until another abomination comes up and we are inspired to beat it once again. I understand the value of debunking lies, criticising stupidity and spreading information. But we here who have made the Codex our home are "enlightened". We recognize the lie, the reccuring patterns of truth embelishment and evasion, and laugh or cry in unison at the retardation. We wade through this shit like a knife through butter. We are not the ones that need to be informed or shown the path, for we are the believers in this cult of the critical mind. And this is why this continued criticism eventually feels repetitive to us.

This is why we spice it up with hyperbole or lulz to keep it fresh. And those, as wierd as it may be, are the tools that reaffirm our continued fervor. Else, the repetition would kill us with boredom, and eventually lead to letting go of our ideological fight to crimes against roleplaying and reason. And this is incompatible with our very own beliefs, so we move forward using the tools we can.

Understand that the Codex is not, in its current nature, entirely devoted to the militant idea that we are to provide the needed equilibrium and reason to all the wrong that is present in gaming journalism, development, PR and publishing. That said, I'm not against the idea of a militant and active Codex, and actually believe that we don't go far enough. But there are people that come here not with the intention to change things or be informed of the sad state of the industry. Some want only to participate in discussion with like-minded individuals on those very subjects. It is people like them that have this certain way of expressing and maintaining their belief in this ideology of ours. I don't see in what way those people that clearly share common ideas hurt the Codex as a whole, especially if their antics are prevented from taking over the serious discussion.

Now, about this militant Codex. This, I think, should be the front of the Codex, with informing as its primary mission. But up to now, we have been doing that in a reactive manner, and I can see how to the militant people this is not enough. We have next to no tangible impact outside of this site's boundaries. To do so, we would need to start to act instead of reacting. Editorials on roleplaying, bad journalism and mass-catering game developpment. A team of highly motivated people. But this somewhat shifts the focus of the site, or rather expands it logically. I'm all for it. But to have stronger credibility, the front page would need a serious overhaul, and the news higher standards of presentation with the same critical comments.

This can be done. But I have yet to see how a Codex that takes itself more seriously is hurt by the people that are less involved but share beliefs and keep them alive with occasionnal hyperbole or lulz. Both can coexsit, as they are somewhat separate. The serious front is mainly the front page and the editorials. The non serious stuff is contained in the forums alone, hidden from the casual browser, and we can make sure that it doesn't take over certain forum sections that are by nature more serious. Also, if the Codex starts having critical articles aside from reviews, this will bring along serious discussions and kill the repetitiveness of typical news criticism.
 

obediah

Erudite
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
5,051
Twinfalls said:
obediah said:
What kind of ninja debate shit is this? You cut out the last paragraph of my post, rephrase it, and then post it as if I had taken the opposite stance.

Apologies for that. The two-parter threw me, I read the 'he deserves no respect' as some kind of justification for personal shit, despite your 'that said, it's over the top' closer. As for the rest of your sentiment, we seem to have something of a difference in views on what constitutes basic decency. I haven't said anywhere that Hines should not be criticised or even ridiculed here. My point is that this can be done in a manner which doesn't descend to that playground-in-the-sewers level.

That's okay. I have a habit of disagreeing with parts of a first post, and invariably this leads to my confusion. That I tend to ramble, and rarely make sense certainly doesn't help. I guess I should stick to the rules set by the first post in threads, but that is rarely interesting.
 

caliban

Scholar
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Messages
476
Location
Krakow
I agree that many people seem to treat the codex like it's some kind of rpgchan.

It's not only about the quality of the jokes or something (even those damn shopped images of Pete were fun... for the first few times), it's about the fact that the same crap gets repeated again and again and again, and is not used to prove any point or even be really funny, but just because "it's cool". I can't think of any solution to that, now that VD decided to step down.
 

Jaime Lannister

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
7,183
The Bethesda/Howard/Hines bashing reminds me of U.S.A./Bush/Cheney bashing. It's mindless singling out of an easy target and then mindlessly bashing whatever they do.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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Jersey for now
I didn't even get to see RK47's pics, unless it's that awesome one of Pete getting bashed in the face, which is cool, but I don't know if I saw this one. plus I only read the first page and nothing else cause I'm important n stuff.
 

Rhett Butler

Scholar
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Sep 22, 2007
Messages
939
Twinfalls said:
The points being made were firstly that PR is his goddam job, and secondly that he has children who presumably access the internet. Two pretty solid reasons to see the vile personal stuff as beyond the pale.

Not really. I could care less if PR is his job. He chose it, he chose to stay in it. I strongly suspect his kids will die having never heard of the Codex.

Better reasons: Death threats/murder fantasies are stupid, they make you look stupid, and they can get you in real trouble if someone decides to take them seriously.

Might I suggest to those who absolutely must express their dissatisfaction with a celebrity do so in less personal tones? Wishing someone dead by natural/accidental means e.g "Oh God I wish Michael Bay would get hit by a truck/tornado/truck thrown from a tornado!" is better than "I'm wanna tie Michael bay to a chair, rape his wife or significant other in front of him and then shoot his cock off and watch him bleed out!".
 

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