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Thief 2: The Metal Age keeps blowing my mind

HoboForEternity

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
seriously, people everywhere aren't kidding that this is the best stealth game ever. level design, mission variety, enemy variety, secrets, loots, story. everything is perfect.

on technical note, it needs few easy patches to run on modern PC properly, but so far, it's crazy. i just finished the mission "trails of blood". so far, it take thief 1 core mechanics, and improve it in every way possible. while thief 1 was great, it has alot of annoying parts, ghost, spiders, that snapper like thing, the woodsies creature. most of them force me to get out of the shadows and into combat. thief 2 removed all that part, and making them optional and as little as possible.

playing on expert too, and it's quite clever how they handle difficulty by changing places, added some stuff in the map, placing more guards and cameras. etc.

the only thing i am afraid of is the disappointment that will come when i start thief: deadly shadows, because i heard it's consolified as hell (levels separated by loading screens, etc)
 

tormund

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Both Thief 1 and 2 are great. First had much better atmosphere, and its level design was rougher. 2 had better missions, but it lost most of first game's atmosphere. Both of them had downright shitty missions too (especially one of few missions that were added in Thief Gold, and latter parts of Thief 2). I am honestly slightly annoyed by dislike for Thief 2 I noticed from some Looking Glass fans and modders that post around here. You guys will never see another game like that ever again, and you will never see another level like Sword, or in case of T2 Bank and Life of the Party in any new high profile stealth game.

the only thing i am afraid of is the disappointment that will come when i start thief: deadly shadows, because i heard it's consolified as hell (levels separated by loading screens, etc)
You have a mod that removes loading zones from individual levels. My biggest problem with Thief DS is movement, which is clunky and imprecise as fuck and that will be especially obvious if you play it right after first two games.
 

HoboForEternity

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
that sword level from thief 1 was amazing, i agree.
You have a mod that removes loading zones from individual levels. My biggest problem with Thief DS is movement, which is clunky and imprecise as fuck and that will be especially obvious if you play it right after first two games.

aww, that's too bad :(

i hope it won't detract the experience overall. after all, a i liked thief 4. to be fair, 4 is my first thief game, it was decent, but i see compared to the older ones, it is really weak both in level design and story/pacing.
 

HoboForEternity

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
most of them force me to get out of the shadows and into combat.

Bullshit. No, they don't. Stop the lies, start the truths.
Go and try those tunnel level with spidersormawof chaos without combat, the only option is to run or fight. Running away will eventually hamper your exploration and annoying as fuck. Fighting is the only way to clear them.
 

J_C

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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Prepare for the disappointment for the last few levels. They are shit.
:troll:
 

catfood

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Serpent in the Staglands Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
I am honestly slightly annoyed by dislike for Thief 2 I noticed from some Looking Glass fans and modders that post around here. You guys will never see another game like that ever again, and you will never see another level like Sword, or in case of T2 Bank and Life of the Party in any new high profile stealth game.
Who the hell doesn't like Thief 2? Some of us just get annoyed by people who say Thief 1 was obviously worse because of monsters, as if you couldn't sneak around them too.
 

Baron Dupek

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I am honestly slightly annoyed by dislike for Thief 1, specifically - these paranormal stuff and the ecologist wet dream stuff.
Since when machines are ok but spiders and zombies not?
 

Unkillable Cat

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There's a sticky thread here in General Gaming that started out as discussion about Thief (2) mods, but is now pretty much the center for all Thief discussion. It also has a sister (sticky) thread devoted entirely to The Dark Mod.

The final level in Thief 1 can be stealthed, but in practice it's just better to run/avoid the monsters. If you think Thief 2 is so hot, wait 'till you have to 'case the joint'. It'll make you think somewhat better of Thief 1 afterwards...

As for Thief 3...it's different, but not by that much. It's a fitting ending to the series and has a level comparable in quality to "The Sword" and "Life of the Party", called "Robbing the Cradle". The less said about that, the better.

And when you're done with the Thief series, there's a sea of Fan Missions (mods) awaiting you, some of which even surpass the original games in quality. I'm not exaggerating when I say that you have years of taffing ahead of you.
 

janior

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Hearing the horn of quintus for first time gave me shivers, still does actually... Thief 1 sound effects are impressive even after all these years.
 

Lyric Suite

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Thief 1 and 2 are virtually identical (they are not even as different as, say, Fallout 1 and 2). There are some differences but anyone who claims either of them is shit compared to the other is a try hard retard.
 
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Thief 1 and 2 are virtually identical (they are not even as difference as, say, Fallout 1 and 2). There are some differences but anyone who claims either of them is shit compared to the other is a try hard retard.

I remember I used my first salary to buy thief 1 and 2 together, and I played only these to games back to back. I have a hard time separating thief 1 and 2 as, well, separate games. I can notice difference in themes and graphics, but gameplaywise, it's all the same to me.
 

Riskbreaker

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The final level in Thief 1 can be stealthed, but in practice it's just better to run/avoid the monsters. If you think Thief 2 is so hot, wait 'till you have to 'case the joint'. It'll make you think somewhat better of Thief 1 afterwards...
I... never really hated that one. It was pretty easy to avoid blackjacking due to extensive network of secret passages and relatively limited number of guards around. Police station mission on expert, which also completely prohibits blackjacking, is harder.
And, mansion was actually really well designed and enjoyable to explore (even with unfinished and technically empty top floor). Yeah, limitation felt forced and all (don't ya dare be noticed or touch anyone lest the Lord gets scared and ends up canceling his party... but feel free to lift anything that ain't glued to the ground, nobody cares for that).
Also, it contains one of my favorite, unexpectedly creepy bits from Thief 2.

It wasn't too tedious to visit the same mansion again later either. Blackjacking limitation was lifted, and it felt different enough with all the new NPCs hanging around and top floor actually being used for something.
 
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Serpent in the Staglands Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Thief 1 and 2 are virtually identical (they are not even as difference as, say, Fallout 1 and 2). There are some differences but anyone who claims either of them is shit compared to the other is a try hard retard.
Yup. If I had to choose, I'd say I like Thief 1 slightly better, because of the atmosphere on some of the levels (especially The Sword and Return to the Cathedral...holy shit). But Thief 2 is fucking fantastic as well, and where overall gameplay and level design is concerned, they're basically equals.
 

HoboForEternity

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Thief 1 and 2 are virtually identical (they are not even as different as, say, Fallout 1 and 2). There are some differences but anyone who claims either of them is shit compared to the other is a try hard retard.

i never say thief 1 is shit, just thief 2 is better. i still damn love thief 1.
 

DeepOcean

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the only thing i am afraid of is the disappointment that will come when i start thief: deadly shadows, because i heard it's consolified as hell (levels separated by loading screens, etc)
There was some serious dumb down but on contrary to Deus Ex Invisible War, the dumb down didn't completely destroy Thief Deadly Shadows, it is a pretty good stealth game. Don't look at it as a disappointment, it was at the time when we hoped years of Looking Glass awaited us but, right now, enjoy it as one of the last good stealth games you will play. Beware that the starting levels are weaker and the good stuff is reserved for later.
 

Carrion

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Deadly Shadows is good and, like DeepOcean said, nowhere near the level of Invisible War when it comes to dumbing down. There are some technical limitations, some unnecessarily removed mechanics and so on, but you can still recognize it as a Thief game right away. It's obviously not as good as the first two games, but few games are, and it still has the most important gameplay elements intact, which makes it superior to the vast majority of stealth games out there. It also nicely wraps up Garrett's story and has a couple of outstanding levels, even if they're cut into parts, so it's definitely worth giving a try.

If you think Thief 2 is so hot, wait 'till you have to 'case the joint'. It'll make you think somewhat better of Thief 1 afterwards...
Both games start to decline a bit towards the end, to be honest. In my opinion TDP peaks fairly early on while having some definite highlights towards the end as well, whereas TMA starts off with a couple of pretty good levels and then continuously raises the stakes until reaching its peak sometime after the halfway point of the game. TDP has more variety and weirdness towards the end, which unfortunately doesn't always translate to great level design and might put some people off, whereas TMA kind of offers more of the same as before but not just as good, which might make the last few missions a bit of a slog. Thief Gold does make the first game's pacing a bit better by fleshing out the somewhat weak McGuffin hunt of the middle part of the game with a couple of really good missions, although it also includes Thieves' Guild, which is probably the worst level in any of the three Thief games and feels more like a fan mission than most actual fan missions do.

I guess the first game is just a bit more polarizing, with different people liking different parts and aspects of it. For me the first five missions of The Dark Project are damn close to perfect, all completely different yet simply superb, and the rest of the game only comes close to that momentarily, like with some parts of Return to the Cathedral. Someone else might absolutely love The Lost City, which I've always found a bit of a bore, or even the insanity of Escape!, which to me is one annoying level. On the other hand there's probably a much greater consensus about the highs and lows of The Metal Age, with everyone loving the bank or Life of the Party while not being all that enthusiastic about what comes after that.
 

Unkillable Cat

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Carrion True about the ending in both games. For T1 it's "Strange Bedfellows" that breaks things for me. The former part of it is a re-hash of a previous mission, the second part a pointless trek through derelict buildings. It (along with "Thieves' Guild") could be cut out with little value being lost, and replaced by a cutscene at the best. On those notes, "The Mage's Guild" needs lots of work to be brought up to par with the other missions as well.

The biggest problem with T2 is that so much of the variety of the first game is lost. It's Mechanists, Mechanists, Mechanists and some more Mechanists, in fancy estates, fancy institutions, a Mechanist outpost and another Mechanist outpost. There are a grand total of 8 undead scattered throughout the game and barring "Trail of Blood" there aren't any beasts to speak about, not even skulking in a remote, hidden corner of a map somewhere.

Then again, the trilogy has this theme of these three factions warring for control of The City; the Pagans, the Hammerites and the Keepers. One faction wants to expand The City, another wants to destroy it, and both of them are being kept in check by the third. The first game deals with the Pagans and their rise and swift downfall, brought about by Garrett. The second one does the same, except now it's the other extreme of the spectrum that does the rising and falling. While the third game focuses on the Keepers, it does manage to represent the other two factions well enough...so one shouldn't be surprised that the Pagans are barely present in an era where the neo-Hammerites are goosestepping over everything and everyone.
 
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JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Both games start to decline a bit towards the end, to be honest. In my opinion TDP peaks fairly early on while having some definite highlights towards the end as well, whereas TMA starts off with a couple of pretty good levels and then continuously raises the stakes until reaching its peak sometime after the halfway point of the game. TDP has more variety and weirdness towards the end, which unfortunately doesn't always translate to great level design and might put some people off, whereas TMA kind of offers more of the same as before but not just as good, which might make the last few missions a bit of a slog. Thief Gold does make the first game's pacing a bit better by fleshing out the somewhat weak McGuffin hunt of the middle part of the game with a couple of really good missions, although it also includes Thieves' Guild, which is probably the worst level in any of the three Thief games and feels more like a fan mission than most actual fan missions do.

I guess the first game is just a bit more polarizing, with different people liking different parts and aspects of it. For me the first five missions of The Dark Project are damn close to perfect, all completely different yet simply superb, and the rest of the game only comes close to that momentarily, like with some parts of Return to the Cathedral. Someone else might absolutely love The Lost City, which I've always found a bit of a bore, or even the insanity of Escape!, which to me is one annoying level. On the other hand there's probably a much greater consensus about the highs and lows of The Metal Age, with everyone loving the bank or Life of the Party while not being all that enthusiastic about what comes after that.

Personally, I consider both games roughly equal. I used to prefer Thief 2, as I played it before Thief Gold, and initially disliked the undead levels in Thief 1, but Thief 1/Gold grew on me after replaying it, and now... eh, I'm not sure if I like it more than Thief 2. They're both excellent games, and their levels are so vastly different in design that making such a direct comparison is impossible. It all comes down to personal preference.

Thief 2 takes longer to develop its atmosphere than Thief 1/Gold does, and overall the atmosphere isn't as thick. It has a stronger middle to late game though.
Thief 1 is really the best in the beginning. Cragscleft, Bonehoard, The Sword, Lost City, and in Gold you get Song of the Caverns. They're all really damn lovely missions, and the atmosphere is so amazing. Really, for me Cragscleft is THE mission that captures the Hammerites best, to me it feels even more Hammerite-y than the actual Hammer church you visit later, as it always seemed a little larger to me, and more martial. I guess it also was kind of a letdown that the Hammer church in Undercover is comparatively small to the cathedral you've glimpsed in The Haunted Cathedral.

Anyway, Thief 1/Gold has so many diverse and strong levels with an atmosphere so thick, it sucks you right in. It becomes significantly weaker when you return with the eye, as Escape! is one of my least favourite levels, Bedfellows isn't that great either, but at least the Maw was pretty fun and interesting, with cool twisted architecture and shit. Overall, the last few missions are underwhelming compared to masterpieces like Cragscleft, Bonehoard, Constantine's mansion. Those three are the holy trinity of Thief 1 genius level design.

Thief 2 takes much longer to get to its great missions. To be honest, I have much less vivid memories of T2 missions than of T1 missions, and sometimes I even forget some of the more unremarkable ones. I have played so many fan missions set in mansions that standard mansion missions grow a little muddy in my memory. First mission was nothing special, definitely less interesting than Bafford's huge place. Second mission was a great piece of level design, probably one of the longest and most non-linear of all the original Thief missions, but I find warehouse districts to be visually boring. Level design there is top though. Third mission... here is where it gets muddy and I remember much less about the order in which the missions happened. There was Ambush at some point, the police station at another, then you'd trail the courier...
Where Thief 2 shines is the mid-late game. I loved breaking into the bank, and Life of the Party is the mission that was so great it spawned its own "subgenre" among fan mission authors - the thieves' highway. I actually enjoyed Gervasius' manor, even though I had to break into it twice.

Thief 1 had more variety, it was a little rough around the edges sometimes, but it had so many absolutely great missions with unique themes and atmospheres. Thief 2 was less varied, with a lot of the missions being basic variations of "break into a building that has guards in it and steal something from there", so they're less distinctive, and only the best of the missions still stick to my mind, unlike Thief 1 where all of them do. Both games are excellent and it's unlikely we're ever going to see level design of their calibre in a mainstream commercial production ever again. The Bonehoard? The Sword? Life of the Party? First City Bank and Trust? Missions like that just aren't "marketable" anymore in this day and age, huge sprawling places where the player is given a handful of objectives and then left to his own devices. These are the kinds of missions that are essentially the "essence" of Thief.
 

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