Development Info Tim Cain at Reboot Develop 2017 - Building a Better RPG: Seven Mistakes to Avoid

[Jedi Master Radek]

Mistake #1 - Steep Learning Curves: Tim thinks character creation in Fallout, Arcanum and other RPGs was too complex. He's experimenting with creating a completely numberless character system that uses geometric shapes to visualize attributes.

It is not the numbers, but rather the game's logic that is hard to figure out. Even if you know all of the information about stats, and understand what they do, there is a chance that a part of them is practically useless. I'd say they should spent time making sure that all skills are necessary, rather than simplifying the character creation window. And Bloodlines already has the auto level up option for retards.

Wtf can't people be allowed to fail in games anymore?

Neoliberalism is a prime suspect I would say. It makes people crave power fantasy which influence most mainstream games and movies. If you have a shitty live, then you want to feel not shitty during entertainment.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

The problem is that an average RPG fan will play a well-made RPG without character creation.

That's an oxymoron.

Why do you consider Gothic not well made then?

 

[Lurker King]

Neoliberalism is a prime suspect I would say.

You mean, the snowflake self-indulgent mentality spread by the left.

 

[Infinitron]

The problem with this discussion is that I remember how things went with PoE

Before release: Hundreds of pages of discussion about different design philosophies of character systems and why a particular approach towards character building represents the DECLINE OF RPGs that will surely make the game unfun

After release: LOL it turns out nobody actually cares! Everybody's talking about the combat, writing, etc, the things that are actually in the game

 

[Jazz_]

You mean, the snowflake self-indulgent mentality spread by the left.

wow you truly are retarded. Neoliberalism a ''snowflake self-indugent mentality'' spread by the left?

 

[Lhynn]

The problem with this discussion is that I remember how things went with PoE

Before release: Hundreds of pages of discussion about different design philosophies of character systems and why a particular approach towards character building represents the DECLINE OF RPGs that will surely make the game unfun

After release: LOL it turns out nobody actually cares! Everybody's talking about the combat, writing, etc, the things that are actually in the game

Wut? everyone with a brain called out sawyer for his bullshit before and after release.

 

[SionIV]

The problem with this discussion is that I remember how things went with PoE

Before release: Hundreds of pages of discussion about different design philosophies of character systems and why a particular approach towards character building represents the DECLINE OF RPGs that will surely make the game unfun

After release: LOL it turns out nobody actually cares! Everybody's talking about the combat, writing, etc, things that are actually in the game

You can't compare the two. There is a difference between having a new approach towards things, and saying that the earlier approach was a mistake/wrong. Especially when that earlier approach is so highly regarded.

 

[Chris Avelltwo]

Obsidian is hiring fresh SJW pretentious artsy minorities that despise gamers and hate cRPGs to replace them. The future belongs to the young.

Fixed.

Well, how is the way you "fixed" my post any different than the way it is now anyway? I wasn't even arguing about their political views. They're all based in California so its a given that they're all going to be SJWs and there's no hope that they would ever be anything different regardless. But even so, a young SJW with a fresh mind might still yield better results than a middle-aged SJW with a decayed one. In either case, they should keep their SJWism out of the games they make. I don't agree with their views, but I tolerate it because its either that or nothing. For whatever reason, Conservatives don't seem to make video games; it's just like how it is in Hollywood, but at least Hollywood has a few exceptions like Mel Gibson and Clint Eastwood. It would be nice if there were some game developer equivalents of Mel Gibson, but I've never heard of any.

Its funny, because Mel Gibson played Mad Max, and Fallout is inspired by those movies, and yet it was made by people who are like the polar opposite of this character and what he embodied. What would Fallout have been if it had been designed by Mel Gibson instead of Tim Cain? Now that is something to ponder.

 

[Fry]

wow you truly are retarded. Neoliberalism a ''snowflake self-indugent mentality'' spread by the left?

Ssshhhh. Don't tell him.

 

[Lurker King]

You mean, the snowflake self-indulgent mentality spread by the left.

wow you truly are retarded. Neoliberalism a ''snowflake self-indugent mentality'' spread by the left?

No, I'm saying that it was a completely different cause that lead to this decline. It seems obvious if you realize that this leftist mindset is also behind the decline in educational standards. I didn't know that this place was so filled with communists. LOL

 

[Kev Inkline]

Trap builds serve no purpose. They serve no purpose to the advanced players (who can instantly spot problems with a build and avoid it). They certainly serve no purpose to the noobs. So what are they? Something noobs can fail with? Noobs are plenty good at failing even without that.

Traps is a very useful skill for laying powerful traps, and can be crucial for some builds, especially for advanced players. Noobs will probably think that it is a useless skill, just like in most RPGs.

Except in a game where you can just lay one trap at the time due to balance issues, and the game forces the previous trap to expire and reappear in your inventory automagically. If I could only remember which game.

 

[Roguey]

28.3% completion rate - better than most, but still not on par with shorter productions

http://steamspy.com/app/72850

Playtime total: 118:43 (average) 47:53 (median)

People get their fill.

 

[Davaris]

Obsidian is hiring fresh SJW pretentious artsy minorities that despise gamers and hate cRPGs to replace them. The future belongs to the young.

Fixed.

Well, how is the way you "fixed" my post any different than the way it is now anyway? I wasn't even arguing about their political views. They're all based in California so its a given that they're all going to be SJWs and there's no hope that they would ever be anything different regardless. But even so, a young SJW with a fresh mind might still yield better results than a middle-aged SJW with a decayed one.

No. Just no.

In either case, they should keep their SJWism out of the games they make.

Impossible, for they are on a crusade. Political correctness is a Religion.

I don't agree with their views, but I tolerate it because its either that or nothing. For whatever reason, Conservatives don't seem to make video games; it's just like how it is in Hollywood, but at least Hollywood has a few exceptions like Mel Gibson and Clint Eastwood. It would be nice if there were some game developer equivalents of Mel Gibson, but I've never heard of any.

Its funny, because Mel Gibson played Mad Max, and Fallout is inspired by those movies, and yet it was made by people who are like the polar opposite of this character and what he embodied. What would Fallout have been if it had been designed by Mel Gibson instead of Tim Cain? Now that is something to ponder.

Conservatives are blackballed in Hollywood, same as they are in universities. The SJW crowd ensure they can't get work.

Very small teams are a possible way out, since the culture at big companies has become toxic. Either a graphics style that costs next to nothing to make that also looks good must be invented, or players have to get over their graphics whoring. Graphics is why games cost so much to make and the high costs are why compromises are made to attract retards.

 

[Lurker King]

Conservatives are blackballed in Hollywood, same as they are in universities. The SJW crowd ensure they can't get work.

Exactly!

Very small teams are a possible way out, since the culture at big companies has become toxic.

We have reached the point where people is not only hired for idelogical reasons, but they are also hired even when they have no experience at all. The girl behind facial animations in the last ME had zero experience with games and this was a key role in a multi-million project.

 

[Excidium II]

Very small teams are a possible way out, since the culture at big companies has become toxic. Either a graphics style that costs next to nothing to make that also looks good must be invented, or players have to get over their graphics whoring. Graphics is why games cost so much to make and the high costs are why compromises are made to attract retards.

Wrong. It's marketing.

 

[Beastro]

Mistake #1 - Steep Learning Curves: Tim thinks character creation in Fallout, Arcanum and other RPGs was too complex. He's experimenting with creating a completely numberless character system that uses geometric shapes to visualize attributes.

It is not the numbers, but rather the game's logic that is hard to figure out. Even if you know all of the information about stats, and understand what they do, there is a chance that a part of them is practically useless. I'd say they should spent time making sure that all skills are necessary, rather than simplifying the character creation window. And Bloodlines already has the auto level up option for retards.

Wtf can't people be allowed to fail in games anymore?

Neoliberalism is a prime suspect I would say. It makes people crave power fantasy which influence most mainstream games and movies. If you have a shitty live, then you want to feel not shitty during entertainment.

The best way to not feel shitty is to overcome challenges, RL or in a game.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Neoliberalism is a prime suspect I would say.

You mean, the snowflake self-indulgent mentality spread by the left.

How the left could be behind anything in the US, when before Bernie Sanders run for the presidency, there were practically no left in the USA?

 

[Infinitron]

Oh ffs, enough with the politics

Bethesda is a blandly apolitical and anodyne corporation, BioWare is associated with socjus, they both make the same dumbed down crap

 

[Lurker King]

The best way to not feel shitty is to overcome challenges, RL or in a game.

But I'm a victim, the world is so unequal! It is the responsibility of government to give me money and solve all my problems developers to make me fell good about myself. It's their job, I'm just a passive victim of society.

 

[Excidium II]

Oh ffs, enough with the politics

Bethesda is a blandly apolitical and anodyne corporation, BioWare is associated with socjus, they both make the same dumbed down crap

They hire from the same general crop of people. The company's positionining as an entity is one thing (EA loves posturing) but they're all the same.

 

[Excidium II]

What citation needed dumbass. What kind of person do you think decides game development is a worthwhile career choice.

 

[iZerw]

RPG's are new dungeon crawlers, you'll have one proper game in every 3-5 years maximum, just deal with it people.

 

[Excidium II]

RPG's are new dungeon crawlers, you'll have one proper game in every 3-5 years maximum, just deal with it people.

Dungeon Crawlers more like every 3-5 months if you know japanese.

 

[DavidBVal]

We should replace all numbers in the codex with colored polygons. The page numbers, parrot counts, etc are triggering me and are no fun. I want to understand everything without effort.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Mistake #1 - Steep Learning Curves: Tim thinks character creation in Fallout, Arcanum and other RPGs was too complex. He's experimenting with creating a completely numberless character system that uses geometric shapes to visualize attributes.

It is not the numbers, but rather the game's logic that is hard to figure out. Even if you know all of the information about stats, and understand what they do, there is a chance that a part of them is practically useless. I'd say they should spent time making sure that all skills are necessary, rather than simplifying the character creation window. And Bloodlines already has the auto level up option for retards.

Wtf can't people be allowed to fail in games anymore?

Neoliberalism is a prime suspect I would say. It makes people crave power fantasy which influence most mainstream games and movies. If you have a shitty live, then you want to feel not shitty during entertainment.

The best way to not feel shitty is to overcome challenges, RL or in a game.

Yes and this is why we should give tax exemptions for big corporations.

RPG's are new dungeon crawlers, you'll have one proper game in every 3-5 years maximum, just deal with it people.

Never!

Spoiler