Review TNO fellates Fallout: New Vegas

[Serious_Business]

This is not a hobby based on enjoyment. This is a hobby based on having something to impotently bitch about, while elevating yourself on a pedestal as a prestigious gentleman of taste without having to get off your ass and improve yourself to do so. Get with the times, grandpa.

Eh, you're a bit off the mark. The reason why people play shit they don't really enjoy is because they have nothing better to do. Even a game that you can analyse critically will probably provide some form of entertainment - and by entertainment I mean escapism, or if you prefer (I sure do), a kind of debilitated, intoxicated state where one doesn't have to think about anything. That's what is called fun, welcome to the 21th century. Now, the reason why the Codex "critical minds" are so hilarious is because they analyse this state (which is crass and hedonistic, you understand) as something deeply aesthetic and worthy of respect, of rational analysis.

Have you ever been to those LAN computer places where you pay to play a couple of hours? There are just like opium dens. It's the same damn thing. I went there a couple of weeks ago with buddies for the first (and last) time, now I sit there, the first thing that happens is a fatso that sits right in front of me, barely fits in his chair, grabs his chips (while I had a protein shake obv), starts playing the games. After a while I was looking at him, his mouth was slighty open, drool coming out, eyes dead... this is it man. This is what it's all about right there. /Jack from Bloodlines

So I hope I cleared that up for you, you goddamn pretentious faggot

 

[Vault Dweller]

@ Sceptic:

Like I said, I could have phrased it better.

Unlike FPS or RTS, the RPG genre is very diverse. Diverse to the point where the word RPG tells you nothing at all (other than the fact that game X has stats and equitable items) and sub-genre classification is required.

Yes, both ToEE and KotC are RPGs but ToEE can't be compared to Arcanum in any way despite the presence of quests with multiple solutions. Same goes for Bloodlines. All three Troika games belong to different sub-genres and if anything show Troika's skill and talent.

KotC had stronger role-playing elements than DA? Like what? MoW is better than DA in "just about every way"? More specifically?

MotB is definitely a better game. I forgot about it when I made that casual "best since Arcanum" forum comment, which wasn't in the review, btw.

Anyway, how about we stop derailing the thread and go back to the NV review?

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS THIS IS A VERY SENSITIVE AND SERIOUS SUBJECT

I WOULD CONSIDER IT A NORMAL AND RTATIONAL THING TO QUIT A GAME YOU DIDNT LIKE PART WAY THROUGH I MEAN IF IT IS WELL RECOMMENDED I MIGHT GIVE IT A COUPLE OF HOURS

BROS I HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH GAMES I WASNT VERY ENTRHALLED WITH BUT IF I PUT TWENTY PLUS HOURS INTO A GAME THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD CALL IT A WORTHLESS PEACE OF SHIT THAT PEOPLE ARE SHIT BRIANED FAGGOTS FOR ENJOYING

WHAT BAFFLES ME THE MOST IS ARGUING ABOUT DISLIKING A GAME YOU DONT THINK YOU WILL LIKE AND WILL NEVER PLAY I MEAN WHY WOULD YOU EVEN CARE ABOUT THE MERITS OF THE GAME

 

[commie]

BROS THIS IS A VERY SENSITIVE AND SERIOUS SUBJECT

I WOULD CONSIDER IT A NORMAL AND RTATIONAL THING TO QUIT A GAME YOU DIDNT LIKE PART WAY THROUGH I MEAN IF IT IS WELL RECOMMENDED I MIGHT GIVE IT A COUPLE OF HOURS

BROS I HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH GAMES I WASNT VERY ENTRHALLED WITH BUT IF I PUT TWENTY PLUS HOURS INTO A GAME THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD CALL IT A WORTHLESS PEACE OF SHIT THAT PEOPLE ARE SHIT BRIANED FAGGOTS FOR ENJOYING

WHAT BAFFLES ME THE MOST IS ARGUING ABOUT DISLIKING A GAME YOU DONT THINK YOU WILL LIKE AND WILL NEVER PLAY I MEAN WHY WOULD YOU EVEN CARE ABOUT THE MERITS OF THE GAME

Exactly. Skyway and his 7 KOTOR playthroughs would take, what, 150 hours at least? No fucking way you can play a game so much and then with a straight face try to peddle it as being 'good for what it is' and a 'thing to pass time with' etc. It's pretty much a zero sum game with games: you either like them enough to finish or you don't. Unless you are reviewing it, why would you play through something you hate? 5-10 hours for an RPG is pretty much what you need to get an idea as to whether it's worthy of your time or not. If you then play it for anther 30-40 hours and then go on about how it suxors, or is just 'good for what it is', then you're pretty much full of shit.

As for the fanaticism in raging against anyone liking a game you won't even play, well...

 

[Ausir]

I wouldn't call Dragon Age any less of a dungeon crawler than ToEE. And ToEE did have a number of choices and consequences too.

 

[TNO]

Hello all, sorry I was late for the shitstorm. Three quick points before wall-o-text.

1. With apologies to twinkle, but I wasn't trolling ("but that's what a troll would say!", I know).

2. The MCA reference was more a commentary on the Codex "we love you MCA"/"Stop raping fallout and being part of a shit studio that can't make a finished game" attitudes, not attributing all the creative work to him. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

3. I'm loving all the abuse over "story-faggotry" (whatever would have given you that impression given my past reviews, eh?) and being willing to give RPGs high marks besides defective combat systems: PS:T, anyone? I'm guessing now would be a bad time to mention I don't care whether it's isometric either?


I expected a fair amount of bitching (and consequent counter-bitching, meta bitching, etc) falling out of giving a very high rating to a recently released game - if you want a personalized response, feel free to send abusive PMs. But Darth Roxor's criticism, although strong, is well thought out, so I thought it merits a response:

@Darth,

Given this was a recently released game, I was aiming to give an overview of the game's merits (or not) and main features for people who already know a bit but wonder whether they want to buy it. So I cut out a lot of stuff I could have added (my NV review is still about 50% larger than my outcast review regardless). I wasn't aiming for a gargantuan treatise arguing in defense of New Vegas (maybe I should stick my notes together and do just that). So I skipped on many of justifications and examples I could have given, hoping the selection I included would convince readers to 'take my word for it' on the rest. (There were also spoiler issues.) Looks like my plan didn't quite work.

But I'm a bit surprised you are so exercised by me not giving you examples. Because I still did that most of the time, even in cases where you say I didn't: I did mention (albeit briskly) what a couple of the quests let you do, I chatted about Vault 34 as a cool location, and I try and cover writing and dialogue at the start (maybe I should have done more, but I found it hard to articulate exactly why FO3s dialogue never got out of neutral whilst NVs zipped along). You do have me bang to rights about covering the world, and I should have included more details about the Legion to argue how they are bad but not bioware mad. Perhaps I should have been more expansive and not relied on a single example or less. Mea culpa.

 

[poocolator]

Very first sentence:

Fallout: New Vegas is one of the best RPGs of all time.

I think I better stop reading right here before I throw myself into another fit of rage.

And just btw, I don't think writing your conclusions right at the start of the opening paragraph is a good way of starting a review.

F:NV was a huge improvement over FO3. That much can be said with certainty, so give them a break. They must have forgotten to take their ritalin.
Anyway, I'd be a happier man today were F:NV released in the place of FO3. The latter was, purely and simply, an abomination. I just think of it that way and feel happy with how things have turned out, knowing that, yes, while decline is unstoppable, at least games like F:NV are taking their time with it.

 

[Ion Flux]

Now, the reason why the Codex "critical minds" are so hilarious is because they analyse this state (which is crass and hedonistic, you understand) as something deeply aesthetic and worthy of respect, of rational analysis.

This is pretty much right on the mark, and a huge part of what makes the Codex such fun.

 

[Arem]

MotB is definitely a better game.

Really? You sure were saying something else in ITS DA impressions thread. You were defending DA as superior in multiple threads even here on the Codex.

I forgot about it when I made that casual "best since Arcanum" forum comment, which wasn't in the review, btw.

No, you did not forget. You wrote this a day before your famous Arcanum comment.

No doubt that MOTB has the better story than DA; but overall as a game, DA wins.
...

^ Pretty much.

MotB has a better, more engaging, less "saving the world", more "saving yourself" story, which I prefer more, but the combat and high level DnD were just awful. In these aspects DA wins easily.
So, while MotB is the only game that can stand next to PST, DA is a better RPG overall.

 

[Vault Dweller]

MotB is definitely a better game.

Really? You sure were saying something else in ITS DA impressions thread.

I said it way before I finished the game (on Nov 14, while the review was posted on Jan 23). Had DA had less filler combat, it would have been a much better game with more choices and higher replayability.

The exact quote was:

"I still don't have a lot of time, so my progress is still slow, but the game keeps getting better. It's definitely the best Bioware game to-date and, judging by the options, it might be the best RPG since Arcanum was released."

I forgot about it when I made that casual "best since Arcanum" forum comment, which wasn't in the review, btw.

No, you did not forget. You wrote this a day before your famous Arcanum comment.

Check again:

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/in ... pic=1134.0

I agreed with Volourn that DA is better than MotB on November 14, 2009, 08:13:32 PM. I posted "might be the best RPG since Arcanum" on November 14, 2009, 11:07:37 AM.

Are we good now? Does it really matter?

 

[Brother None]

I'm glad we're preferring this bullshit he-said she-said discussion to any actual discussion of the review or New Vegas.

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

Fallout: New Vegas is one of the best RPGs of all time.

Not saying I disagree(not a lot of competition), but I stopped reading there.

 

[Ion Flux]

BROS THIS IS A VERY SENSITIVE AND SERIOUS SUBJECT

I WOULD CONSIDER IT A NORMAL AND RTATIONAL THING TO QUIT A GAME YOU DIDNT LIKE PART WAY THROUGH I MEAN IF IT IS WELL RECOMMENDED I MIGHT GIVE IT A COUPLE OF HOURS

BROS I HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH GAMES I WASNT VERY ENTRHALLED WITH BUT IF I PUT TWENTY PLUS HOURS INTO A GAME THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD CALL IT A WORTHLESS PEACE OF SHIT THAT PEOPLE ARE SHIT BRIANED FAGGOTS FOR ENJOYING

WHAT BAFFLES ME THE MOST IS ARGUING ABOUT DISLIKING A GAME YOU DONT THINK YOU WILL LIKE AND WILL NEVER PLAY I MEAN WHY WOULD YOU EVEN CARE ABOUT THE MERITS OF THE GAME

Exactly. Skyway and his 7 KOTOR playthroughs would take, what, 150 hours at least? No fucking way you can play a game so much and then with a straight face try to peddle it as being 'good for what it is' and a 'thing to pass time with' etc. It's pretty much a zero sum game with games: you either like them enough to finish or you don't. Unless you are reviewing it, why would you play through something you hate? 5-10 hours for an RPG is pretty much what you need to get an idea as to whether it's worthy of your time or not. If you then play it for anther 30-40 hours and then go on about how it suxors, or is just 'good for what it is', then you're pretty much full of shit.

As for the fanaticism in raging against anyone liking a game you won't even play, well...

I honestly can't remember the last time I finished a game. There appears to be a part of my psyche that is just like, "WTF are you doing?"

Yet I continue to play them. :/

 

[Ruprekt]

Combat in NV is too easy on the default difficulty setting. So yeah... if you play on that setting your choices boil down to which way you choose to 'LARP' the situation. Problem solved by turning the difficulty to very hard. At least that's how I found it...

For example

Spoiler

: On default difficulty it's trivial to wipe out the silver rush. While on very hard I went in with combat armor, pumped full of every chem and lured some of the guards outside to use helios one.

Yeah there's probably a way to exploit pathing or whatever to still make it trivial... but c'est la vie that's a general problem with 3d realtime vs turn based and you don't have to do that kind of shit...

 

[Severian Silk]

I will say it again, IF some group of people (and dear GAWD PLEASE DO THIS!) completely modded all the content of New Vegas into the Fallout 2 engine, it would be my 2nd favorite Fallout game. Period.

Interesting idea.

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

For example

Spoiler

: On default difficulty it's trivial to wipe out the silver rush. While on very hard I went in with combat armor, pumped full of every chem and lured some of the guards outside to use helios one.

Spoiler

Or you could just use a silenced sniper rifle to sneak attack one van graff at a time instead of ramboing it.

As long as your initial strategy is decent you're not going to have to change it for higher difficulty levels in most mainstream rpgs. All that changes with difficulty is how long fights can take due to HP bloat.

 

[Ruprekt]

I didn't put any points into the sneak skill.

You have a point: Stealth is borderline broken in Bethesda titles (which NV inherits)... I guess that's why I usually play a "rambo" in their games if I can't find a mod to cap it or otherwise fix it. And you're right it's a general issue with realtime 3d games (kinda what I was referring to in my post).

 

[jiujitsu]

Dungeon Siege is a Diablo clone. So, I very much doubt it will feature RPG aspects that most of us here would appreciate. It would make more sense for them to stick with the old Diablo template.

Unfortunately, if I wanted to play a game like Diablo I'd not settle for anything less than a game that's actually called Diablo. Be it 1, 2 or 3.

 

[Arem]

I said it way before I finished the game (on Nov 14, while the review was posted on Jan 23). Had DA had less filler combat, it would have been a much better game with more choices and higher replayability.

The exact quote was:

"I still don't have a lot of time, so my progress is still slow, but the game keeps getting better. It's definitely the best Bioware game to-date and, judging by the options, it might be the best RPG since Arcanum was released."

The thing is this is the first time ever I see you saying MotB is better. I was curious whether you were influenced by the recent trend of bashing DA or if it is something you truly believe.

Check again:

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/in ... pic=1134.0

I agreed with Volourn that DA is better than MotB on November 14, 2009, 08:13:32 PM. I posted "might be the best RPG since Arcanum" on November 14, 2009, 11:07:37 AM.

I wasn't talking about that comment. I was talking about this one from November 16:

edit: Oh and by the way, Dragon Age is good. Best game from BioWare I've played in a long, long time.

Best Bioware game and the best RPG since Arcanum.

Are we good now? Does it really matter?

Sure. Nope.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Arem, please edit your post so nobody sees what I wrote about Dragon Age being best game from BioWare I've played in a long, long time. It's all very embarassing for me. Thanks in advance.

 

[Black]

Good thing I screencaped it, some people replay kotor 7 times, others think DA is best game from bw in a long time.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Oh god my reputation on the interwebs is ruined!

 

[Xor]

Arem, please edit your post so nobody sees what I wrote about Dragon Age being best game from BioWare I've played in a long, long time. It's all very embarassing for me. Thanks in advance.

I'm sure several of us made that mistake before we realized exactly how boring and repetitive the game is.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Heh, first time it's easy to forgive the many flaws, and I don't think I had played Mass Effect 2 yet at that point.

 

[Crooked Bee]

So many excuses in a single thread.