Underrail [PRE-RELEASE THREAD, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Blaine]

Before this economy discussion goes any further, I have to point out that the latest version has a really useful goldsink which would use nearly all of those charons in just 3 tries.

Do tell.

 

[epeli]

Just as the description of Stygian coins has always stated, their value is derived directly from material they're made of - super steel. Now you can smelt huge piles of coins into super steel plates. And those plates can be processed into other super steel components, which are pretty much the best crafting materials you can get.

 

[Stompa]

Just as the description of Stygian coins has always stated, their value is derived directly from material they're made of - super steel. Now you can smelt huge piles of coins into super steel plates. And those plates can be processed into other super steel components, which are pretty much the best crafting materials you can get.

You're saying I can literally smack people to death down with money? 11/10 best feature ever.

 

[Ulminati]

Just as the description of Stygian coins has always stated, their value is derived directly from material they're made of - super steel. Now you can smelt huge piles of coins into super steel plates. And those plates can be processed into other super steel components, which are pretty much the best crafting materials you can get.

That's... brilliant! :O

 

[Zdzisiu]

Just as the description of Stygian coins has always stated, their value is derived directly from material they're made of - super steel. Now you can smelt huge piles of coins into super steel plates. And those plates can be processed into other super steel components, which are pretty much the best crafting materials you can get.

That's... brilliant! :O

The not so briliant part is the fact, that the quality of the plates is random between 70 and 160. So you can get some awesome plates like 150+, or some nearly useless crap like 70-100. And to scum it, you have to wait like 30 minutes because the plates needs to be "forged", and the guy will tell you to come back later.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

epeli that is indeed interesting. I still think Styg should consider halving the Stygian rewards though.

 

[I_am_Ian]

balance

Please go away.

I am not saying I am for or against the current model i am just asking if Styg has said anything about it since many people have brought up the issue.

I love this game as is.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Just as the description of Stygian coins has always stated, their value is derived directly from material they're made of - super steel. Now you can smelt huge piles of coins into super steel plates. And those plates can be processed into other super steel components, which are pretty much the best crafting materials you can get.

You're saying I can literally smack people to death down with money? 11/10 best feature ever.

This is ffing genius!

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Suck it Sawyerites.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Styg , just posting thoughts as I play:

• I feel like you sort of got away from the whole Perception/Snoop/Hidden Passages element in the mid & late portions of the game. It's a hugely rewarding and fun thing in the beginning and I'd love to see more of it (not to mention the diminishing returns of choosing that perk and/or a high perception character if you don't manage to keep this constant throughout the entire game).
• Feel like I've mentioned this already but in the description of Toxic Sludge you need to replace "definitively" with "definitely".
• Not sure if I just didn't notice it before but in Epione lab Sorry, I mean "northeast Upper Underrail" (at least) the mutants have a strange lag before their turn is over.
• I know I've mentioned this before, but I'll reiterate anyway: Places like the 'Hanging Rat' are really nice little touches, but they could be even better if fleshed out just a tiny bit. Even if only with one more bar patron with a little back-story and tiny sidequest, more interesting barkeep loot or a few more patrons with floating dialogue.
• A key ring to consolidate keycards and keys in the inventory. PLEASE!

 

[jagged-jimmy]

Help me with non-heavy armor build.

If i go AGI and choose dodge/evasion/stealth naturally, plus lockpicking/hacking as a stealthy guy should - i am down 5 skills already. Of course i want an offensive skill and crafting and also maybe 1 psi school to be uber awesome.

So i think, if i play range - i can skip dodge and try to keep distance. But with knives? Is there no way to have a stealthy knife char with psi/crafting?
Should i take some points off AGI/DEX based skills because of the high bonus 9-10 in stats gives?

 

[Blaine]

The massive skill investment necessary for a sneaky wimp character was the main reason I chose to play a heavily-armored sledgehammer user during my primary playthrough. Such characters can then invest heavily in several crafting skills by midgame, and branch out even further later on in the game. My sledgehammer guy ended up with 72 Lockpicking and Hacking, 110 in Melee and Guns, a fairly high Throwing, and an average of 90 in every crafting skill.

Essentially, wearing heavy armor allows you to ignore Dodge and Evasion entirely. It also allows you to plow straight through enemies if you play your cards right, which in turn means you don't need Lockpicking or Hacking, either.

Later on in the game, sneaky wimps should be less pressed for skill points, especially now with the raised level cap. I need to do a sneaky playthrough in order to find out for sure (only played 1/3 of the way in with a sneaky character).

You probably don't want to start the game trying to perform knife sneak attacks. That route leads to sorrow and angst. Melee is something you'd branch out to after beginning with investment in a ranged option.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

Actually i pumped like 40 hours in the game already. It's that awesome. Can't wait for the final release and still don't know which char to play...

First character i tried was a stealthy knife fighter. Skipping psi and crafting i was murdering everything quite fine being able to pick my fights. But entirely focusing on combat seemed wrong.

Then i tried hammer time char and, like you said, i was swimming in skill points and could max 4 crafting skills on each level up, still having lock/hack. But not being able to sneak explore areas or initiate combat properly was a real downside for me. But i am thinking hammer time + psi might be interesting...

Right now i tried sealth sniper + methatermics with 2 crafting skills. First thing I realized is how awesome psi skills are. I am able to keep my distance and disable with psi. And early on i don't need any ammo and can psi-kill the rathounds. But i am afraid there will be a lot of really tight areas, where i won't be able to snipe properly. And additional STR requirement for sniper is also bad stat-wise.

So right now i try to find out what's the best way to have a stealth + 1 psi + 2 crafts char. But that dodge/evasion is kind of hard - especially as you want to invest in those each level...

Also stats... :
WIS / INT do they affect anything other than giving bonuses to related skills? Psi does not seem to have to-hit and also does not depend on PER for ranged psi-abilities. So dumping is fine?

 

[Zdzisiu]

Actually i pumped like 40 hours in the game already. It's that awesome. Can't wait for the final release and still don't know which char to play...

First character i tried was a stealthy knife fighter. Skipping psi and crafting i was murdering everything quite fine being able to pick my fights. But entirely focusing on combat seemed wrong.

Then i tried hammer time char and, like you said, i was swimming in skill points and could max 4 crafting skills on each level up, still having lock/hack. But not being able to sneak explore areas or initiate combat properly was a real downside for me. But i am thinking hammer time + psi might be interesting...

Right now i tried sealth sniper + methatermics with 2 crafting skills. First thing I realized is how awesome psi skills are. I am able to keep my distance and disable with psi. And early on i don't need any ammo and can psi-kill the rathounds. But i am afraid there will be a lot of really tight areas, where i won't be able to snipe properly. And additional STR requirement for sniper is also bad stat-wise.

So right now i try to find out what's the best way to have a stealth + 1 psi + 2 crafts char. But that dodge/evasion is kind of hard - especially as you want to invest in those each level...

Also stats... :
WIS / INT do they affect anything other than giving bonuses to related skills? Psi does not seem to have to-hit and also does not depend on PER for ranged psi-abilities. So dumping is fine?

I believe that WIS plays a role in PSI damage or other form of PSI effectivenes after the last changes to PSI regen. Also, you should make sure you will have enough WIL/INT for the feats you want later on.

 

[ST'Ranger]

Help me with non-heavy armor build.

If i go AGI and choose dodge/evasion/stealth naturally, plus lockpicking/hacking as a stealthy guy should - i am down 5 skills already. Of course i want an offensive skill and crafting and also maybe 1 psi school to be uber awesome.

So i think, if i play range - i can skip dodge and try to keep distance. But with knives? Is there no way to have a stealthy knife char with psi/crafting?
Should i take some points off AGI/DEX based skills because of the high bonus 9-10 in stats gives?

This is a great character concept already. I'm going to make some suggestions for workability.

You want a stealthy knifer with psi utility and crafting skills. For clarity, that's dependence on 4 attributes: Agility (stealth/dodge/evasion), Dexterity (knife damage, action point cost reduction), Will (psi abilities), and Intelligence (all crafting skills).

First you have to ask yourself what your primary attribute is. Are you a knifer at heart or a psi-slinger? For a few reasons, I'd probably choose Dexterity to be the primary attribute for this particular character and focus on slicing the hapless opposition. Dexterity is an efficient attribute, and a build using many attributes craves efficiency.

The following are all suggestions that you can take and modify to suit your intentions more exactly.

Attributes

10 Dexterity
7 Agility
10 Will
4 Intelligence

Max Dexterity every level for increased skill efficiency and action point economy. Siphon points here and there away from Dexterity skills to make room for others (more of a medium-term plan than an immediate point of action). 7 Agility for strong stealth and defensive skills.

or

10 Dexterity
7 Agility
9 Will
5 Intelligence

This is a slight modification that is getting a bit more efficiency out of intelligence. I would personally choose this, but it depends on what you're looking to get out your psi abilities specifically.

Skills

AGI (defense)
Stealth 5/5
Dodge 5/5
Evasion 5/5

DEX
Melee 5/5*
Lockpicking 3/5
Throwing 5/5**
Traps 2/5

INT
[Crafting Skill #1] 4/5
[Crafting Skill #2] 3/5

WIL
[Preferred Psi Skill] 3/5

*Later in the game, when Dexterity gets very high, you can 4/5 or even 3/5 this skill to bump others.
**Get this skill to about 40-50 so you can accurately place grenades (and perhaps poisoned throwing knives). Afterwards, you can leave this skill alone entirely unless you want a bit more range. This frees up 5 points a level to bump crafting or psi.

This is one possible blueprint for your levels. I've chosen to skip hacking here as lockpicking is the more efficient of the two. The earlier oddities you'll get from Lockpicking will make this very worthwhile on this particular character. Throwing is just a versatile skill that will always be useful. After getting it up "high enough", you can leave it alone to max out crafting skills or bump psi a little higher.

Traps are great for this character. For relatively little skillpoint cost, traps can make otherwise deadly encounters quite trivial with the right planning and strategy.

Feats

There are a number of feats that will help this character in effectiveness and efficiency. These are not all the feats that would be helpful, just some ones of note.

Nimbleness: This feat is not flashy, but it's very efficient. Having 0 armor penalty on a character like this is essential. Armor penalty reduces Movement (direly needed for melee combat effectiveness) as well as Stealth-Dodge-Evasion which is the trinity of your entire defense. The additional Dodge and Evasion bonus is just a cherry.

Interloper (req 7 Agi): This feat simply makes stealth that much stronger. The less time you spend closer to enemies, the less time they have to sniff you out. Essential for any stealth character to get mileage out of the feature.

Fancy Footwork ( req 7 Agi, 40 Melee, 40 Dodge): Movement is everything for a melee combatant such as this. Action point efficiency and the increased capability of breaking LOS from dangerous gunmen make this feat one of the most efficient in the game.

Cut Throat (req 10 Dex, 55 Melee, 45 Stealth): It's not always useful, but it can be the strongest feat in the game when it comes into play. The quintessential stealth knifer's calling sign.

Taste for Blood (req 50 Melee): Though this feat has been scaled back from ye olde days of godlike knife-wielders, it is an incredibly strong feat against a group as well as against strong individual foes. For a melee character without strength, this damage boost is going to be essential.

Vile Weaponry (req 10 Biology, 25 Melee): Another great damage boost at the "cost" of only 10 Biology. This obviously works fantastically well with Taste for Blood and traps.

Vile Weaponry, Taste for Blood, and Fancy Footwork make each swing of the knife more and more effective. They work great in combination and are highly efficient for a character with such low strength. Be sure to use a serrated knife, of course.

 

[Blaine]

Good Lord... did they add new music? Hadn't touched it since I wrote the Re-Preview. This shit's DANK, nigga!

 

[jagged-jimmy]

This is a great character concept already. I'm going to make some suggestions for workability.

You want a stealthy knifer with psi utility and crafting skills. For clarity, that's dependence on 4 attributes: Agility (stealth/dodge/evasion), Dexterity (knife damage, action point cost reduction), Will (psi abilities), and Intelligence (all crafting skills).

First you have to ask yourself what your primary attribute is. Are you a knifer at heart or a psi-slinger? For a few reasons, I'd probably choose Dexterity to be the primary attribute for this particular character and focus on slicing the hapless opposition. Dexterity is an efficient attribute, and a build using many attributes craves efficiency.

The following are all suggestions that you can take and modify to suit your intentions more exactly.

Attributes

10 Dexterity
7 Agility
10 Will
4 Intelligence

Max Dexterity every level for increased skill efficiency and action point economy. Siphon points here and there away from Dexterity skills to make room for others (more of a medium-term plan than an immediate point of action). 7 Agility for strong stealth and defensive skills.

or

10 Dexterity
7 Agility
9 Will
5 Intelligence

This is a slight modification that is getting a bit more efficiency out of intelligence. I would personally choose this, but it depends on what you're looking to get out your psi abilities specifically.

Skills

AGI (defense)
Stealth 5/5
Dodge 5/5
Evasion 5/5

DEX
Melee 5/5*
Lockpicking 3/5
Throwing 5/5**
Traps 2/5

INT
[Crafting Skill #1] 4/5
[Crafting Skill #2] 3/5

WIL
[Preferred Psi Skill] 3/5

*Later in the game, when Dexterity gets very high, you can 4/5 or even 3/5 this skill to bump others.
**Get this skill to about 40-50 so you can accurately place grenades (and perhaps poisoned throwing knives). Afterwards, you can leave this skill alone entirely unless you want a bit more range. This frees up 5 points a level to bump crafting or psi.

This is one possible blueprint for your levels. I've chosen to skip hacking here as lockpicking is the more efficient of the two. The earlier oddities you'll get from Lockpicking will make this very worthwhile on this particular character. Throwing is just a versatile skill that will always be useful. After getting it up "high enough", you can leave it alone to max out crafting skills or bump psi a little higher.

Traps are great for this character. For relatively little skillpoint cost, traps can make otherwise deadly encounters quite trivial with the right planning and strategy.

Feats

There are a number of feats that will help this character in effectiveness and efficiency. These are not all the feats that would be helpful, just some ones of note.

Nimbleness: This feat is not flashy, but it's very efficient. Having 0 armor penalty on a character like this is essential. Armor penalty reduces Movement (direly needed for melee combat effectiveness) as well as Stealth-Dodge-Evasion which is the trinity of your entire defense. The additional Dodge and Evasion bonus is just a cherry.

Interloper (req 7 Agi): This feat simply makes stealth that much stronger. The less time you spend closer to enemies, the less time they have to sniff you out. Essential for any stealth character to get mileage out of the feature.

Fancy Footwork ( req 7 Agi, 40 Melee, 40 Dodge): Movement is everything for a melee combatant such as this. Action point efficiency and the increased capability of breaking LOS from dangerous gunmen make this feat one of the most efficient in the game.

Cut Throat (req 10 Dex, 55 Melee, 45 Stealth): It's not always useful, but it can be the strongest feat in the game when it comes into play. The quintessential stealth knifer's calling sign.

Taste for Blood (req 50 Melee): Though this feat has been scaled back from ye olde days of godlike knife-wielders, it is an incredibly strong feat against a group as well as against strong individual foes. For a melee character without strength, this damage boost is going to be essential.

Vile Weaponry (req 10 Biology, 25 Melee): Another great damage boost at the "cost" of only 10 Biology. This obviously works fantastically well with Taste for Blood and traps.

Vile Weaponry, Taste for Blood, and Fancy Footwork make each swing of the knife more and more effective. They work great in combination and are highly efficient for a character with such low strength. Be sure to use a serrated knife, of course.

I guess i found something i am very comfortable with. Key was skipping hacking, as you suggested. Suddenly my skills felt awesome. Not sure if there are more electronics doors later in the game though...

I aimed for:
DEX 10 (+ all)
AGI 7 (+1 on first occasion only)
CON 4 (too coward to dump)
WIL 8
INT 5

Throwing/Traps as you suggested. 60/40 effective with bonuses. Not sure how much traps is required to use good ones.
Melee/Dodge/Evasion/Stealth max on each level up. Maybe can shift some points from stealth later in the game.
Methatermics 40. Might add more, if crafting is good enough.
That leaves me with 50 in Mechanics/Tailoring and 20 in Electronics at level 12. So some nice crafting potential. I aim to create shock knives and light armor.
Biology 10 seems also worth it for the vile wounds feat. Should be possible too.

Feats: mostly knife/melee/bleed related as you suggested. Maybe some psi related later on.

On a unrelated note: 400 damage with sniper rifle special abilities is quite nice.

 

[Blaine]

I couldn't wait any longer, so I started a Crossbows/Evasion, Stealth/Hacking/Lockpicking, Mechanics/Electronics/Tailoring character. At level 8, using the Oddity system, I'm already branching out a bit into Biology and will probably invest in Dodge soon, because I fear what may happen later on during pitched combats.

Feat plan:

Spoiler

Aimed Shot
Kneecap Shot
Marksman
Sharpshooter
Snipe
Special Tactics
Expertise
Nimble
Recklessness? OR Power Management?
Interloper
Evasive Maneuvers
Sprint
Uncanny Dodge
Escape Artist

One thing I dislike about Stealth is that it slows the game down, even with Interloper, and not in a good way since it's mostly just walking or waiting around longer.

Does anyone know if Expertise does exactly what it says on the tin?

The skippability of Social skills like Persuade, Intimidate, and Mercantile still concern me. I think that juicy social feats other than Yell might be strong incentives, such as a high-level Persuade feat that grants you an ability which "charms" a human enemy for multiple turns. (Not even particularly unrealistic; just abstracts the reason why you might be able to talk a particular character into turning traitor.)

 

[da_rays]

I Did almost the same build you took , except i went a bit less on the ''fighting side'' perks , and i went and took a dip into Psy , only metathermic tho , which gives me a bit of control over some harder battle. With metathermic + special bolts , and a decent lvl in crafting ( tailoring being the lowest ) cutted steatlh out of the equation , Low dodge/evasion investment. having lot of fun with this build , Psi seem a bit overpowered since it was changed. Only drawback i feel its the lack of positioning and striking first into battle since i dont have much invested in steatlh....something a good armor/boots can do the job , bbut most of the time , it doesnt. Maaaaaaan, cant wait for this baby to be finish n' polished so i can feel myself drowning in that game.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Styg , bug:

Spoiler

After finding this hidden room I couldn't get out!

 

[epeli]

Does anyone know if Expertise does exactly what it says on the tin?

Yes it does.

Styg , bug:

Spoiler

After finding this hidden room I couldn't get out!

You can get out, just walk to the corner. Unlike some similar places, there's no door you need to click.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

That still seems...not ideal?

 

[epeli]

Yeah, I agree. I'm just trying to help you out, man.

Does anyone know if Expertise does exactly what it says on the tin?

On a second thought, to be really autistic about this, not exactly what it says on the tin.

"Your non-critical firearm, crossbow and melee attacks deal additional mechanical damage equal to your level."
Better description would be "Your non-critical firearm, crossbow and melee hits deal additional mechanical damage equal to your level." because it triggers on each hit, not each attack. So things like burst get the most benefit out of it.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

Styg, i think "Nimble" feat does not work as advertised.

It says i get a bonus to dodge/evasion if my armor penalty is 0%. Also it removes 15% penalty.

Now i am wearing a 10% penalty armor, my stat screen says i have "0% armor penalty", but i do not get the bonus. If i take off the armor, i do get the bonus.

 

[epeli]

Wait what, Nimble is broken again? It just keeps breaking no matter how many times Styg fixes it...

Hmm, quick testing with a new character shows that the Nimble bonus is applied TWICE if you have natural zero armor penalty.
* 15 dodge/evasion + nimble + any armor below 15% penalty -> 17 dodge/evasion
* 15 dodge/evasion + nimble + no armor with penalty -> 19 dodge/evasion