World of Whorecraft: Battle for Asseroth

[Xenich]

Yeah, this is basically the issue. I've played with a lot of old people and moms in WoW and they are fucking useless.

Some of the most competent healers I've been in raids with are moms or old people.

They can be, it depends on if they carry baggage with them or not. You give me a group of people who know nothing about gaming, but who are willing to listen, actually try and show interest in improving their play who also don't have problems following orders and I will show you a group who will destroy all of the content. It isn't the competent individual of those people, it is the stereotypical aspect of them. Generally, those people are clueless because they don't see the game as anything more than an unimportant passing of time. They don't take it seriously. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that the game becomes the center of their world, but it is more along the line of that old saying "anything worth doing is worth doing well". If people treat the game with that attitude, then they can succeed at it. Problem is, many don't give it that level of respect, after all "It is just a stupid game" and if people have that attitude, there is no point in them playing at all.

 

[Metro]

I will go manage a daycare.

Thought you did that already.

 

[abija]

Looking back at clearing MC, the months we put in just to kill Ragnaros, it was really daunting especially when you had to farm good fire resist gear just for some of the bosses. But nothing in MC comes close to the insanity that was Naxx40, not even the bosses in AQ40 except C'thun, rivaled Naxx40's craziness. We were pretty much the same bunch of people who have raided from MC through to Naxx, and we'd still wipe to Naxx bosses for weeks. Stuff made of nightmares.

Your raid had at least 20 baddies, very likely 30 or more. We had 17 decent people in vanilla and had less problems than you describe.
Oh, and I know that number because we trialed them in BC heroics and the rest failed horribly as suspected. 1 of the 6 tanks left from vanilla passed the test, that's how "hard" vanilla was.

Xenich: There's challenging and time investing content in WoW, you just keep playing in the kiddie pool and qqing water is not deep enough.
Also, you haven't the slightest idea how hardcore the top guilds are or how raids compare to each other difficulty wise. MC was a joke, the fact that you even mention that it was completed in 5 months as some sort of proof shows what special kind of clueless moron you are.

 

[Xenich]

I will go manage a daycare.

Thought you did that already.

Managing you isn't exactly a daycare, but hey... if you think so. /shrug

 

[Xenich]

Looking back at clearing MC, the months we put in just to kill Ragnaros, it was really daunting especially when you had to farm good fire resist gear just for some of the bosses. But nothing in MC comes close to the insanity that was Naxx40, not even the bosses in AQ40 except C'thun, rivaled Naxx40's craziness. We were pretty much the same bunch of people who have raided from MC through to Naxx, and we'd still wipe to Naxx bosses for weeks. Stuff made of nightmares.

Your raid had at least 20 baddies, very likely 30 or more. We had 17 decent people in vanilla and had less problems than you describe.
Oh, and I know that number because we trialed them in BC heroics and the rest failed horribly as suspected. 1 of the 6 tanks left from vanilla passed the test, that's how "hard" vanilla was.

Xenich: There's challenging and time investing content in WoW, you just keep playing in the kiddie pool and qqing water is not deep enough.
Also, you haven't the slightest idea how hardcore the top guilds are or how raids compare to each other difficulty wise. MC was a joke, the fact that you even mention that it was completed in 5 months as some sort of proof shows what special kind of clueless moron you are.

Yes, that is it. WoW is a skillful game, it really is and you are hardcore! Here is a participation trophy!

BTW, I played all content all the way up to Cata, so please.... save your bullshit for someone young and stupid enough to believe you.

 

[abija]

Nobody doing the first 2 raiding tiers in TBC before nerfs would ever mention MC (or anything else in Vanilla) as difficult so maybe save your own bullshit.
Doing all content is a lot different than doing all content at release. I certainly doubt you were doing progression in heroic raids as soon as possible or you wouldn't comment about how MC took 5 months to beat...

And I know you tried to be edgy with your poor sarcasm about skill, but funny enough they proved in WotLK there's a considerable skill gap even between the very best guilds and an immense one between those and the rest of the players. That would be quite impossible if the game was so easy and shallow as you pretend.

 

[Zed]

ive played more wow than anyone else in this thread lemme know if you want my input on something

 

[Metro]

Don't think much input is needed. Thread has devolved into old man Xenich's personal blog.

 

[Zed]

i don't even read his posts so i dunno what he's on about but whatever the topic; wow hasn't been this good since tbc, despite streamlining and casualization.

 

[cw8]

Looking back at clearing MC, the months we put in just to kill Ragnaros, it was really daunting especially when you had to farm good fire resist gear just for some of the bosses. But nothing in MC comes close to the insanity that was Naxx40, not even the bosses in AQ40 except C'thun, rivaled Naxx40's craziness. We were pretty much the same bunch of people who have raided from MC through to Naxx, and we'd still wipe to Naxx bosses for weeks. Stuff made of nightmares.

Your raid had at least 20 baddies, very likely 30 or more. We had 17 decent people in vanilla and had less problems than you describe.
Oh, and I know that number because we trialed them in BC heroics and the rest failed horribly as suspected. 1 of the 6 tanks left from vanilla passed the test, that's how "hard" vanilla was.

We were Singaporeans and had Aussies playing in a US server, (200+ping) and we still cleared AQ40 up to C'thun and went to Naxx. And no, we normally don't have a full 40, normally just 37 or so. I'm no raid leader or main tank but seriously, 30 baddies? I don't see how we can kill bosses with 7-8 people with the rest sitting around doing nothing. And you mean to say you just waltzed through Naxx40 without any difficulty when even the top guilds at that time had some problems? And that poor main MC priests and tanks for Instructor Razuvious couldn't make mistakes before wiping the raid, let alone the 4 Horsemen or C'thun.

 

[Xenich]

Nobody doing the first 2 raiding tiers in TBC before nerfs would ever mention MC (or anything else in Vanilla) as difficult so maybe save your own bullshit.
Doing all content is a lot different than doing all content at release. I certainly doubt you were doing progression in heroic raids as soon as possible or you wouldn't comment about how MC took 5 months to beat...

And I know you tried to be edgy with your poor sarcasm about skill, but funny enough they proved in WotLK there's a considerable skill gap even between the very best guilds and an immense one between those and the rest of the players. That would be quite impossible if the game was so easy and shallow as you pretend.

Sorry, but when content is consumed within days and weeks, it isn't hard.

BC heroics were destroyed in the first week. I remember people whining about how they were too hard while my friends and I were saying it was nice to have a bit more challenge than the shit they were passing off as content with normal BC.

 

[TedNugent]

Sorry, but when content is consumed within days and weeks, it isn't hard.

BC heroics were destroyed in the first week. I remember people whining about how they were too hard while my friends and I were saying it was nice to have a bit more challenge than the shit they were passing off as content with normal BC.

But you're not the one clearing the content within days and weeks. That's the point.

 

[Angthoron]

This thread reminds me more and more of some people I know that sub for a month mid-expansion, do one full LFR run, then proceed to tell how it was better and how everything is shit and easy until their sub runs out while the rest of the raid group is busy wiping on heroic progression. We all go "Wow, this guy is so experienced and great" when that happens, too bad they never stick around or offer their skills to our pathetic manboon group.

 

[Xenich]

Sorry, but when content is consumed within days and weeks, it isn't hard.

BC heroics were destroyed in the first week. I remember people whining about how they were too hard while my friends and I were saying it was nice to have a bit more challenge than the shit they were passing off as content with normal BC.

But you're not the one clearing the content within days and weeks. That's the point.

That is because I don't subscribe to the play style of "rush to max as fast as possible because the only game is end game". We could have easily consumed all the content that fast if we desired. Like I said, it was ridiculous how many people whined about the BC heroics. It really showed the decline of the game and how the player base had become nothing more than face rolling ADHD tools. /shrug

 

[Xenich]

This thread reminds me more and more of some people I know that sub for a month mid-expansion, do one full LFR run, then proceed to tell how it was better and how everything is shit and easy until their sub runs out while the rest of the raid group is busy wiping on heroic progression. We all go "Wow, this guy is so experienced and great" when that happens, too bad they never stick around or offer their skills to our pathetic manboon group.

???

I did all through MC, BWL, and later into BC. I advised the raid leaders on tactics quite often. I didn't lead a whole lot past MC/BWL because I really disliked the issues that arrived with managing the "WoW crowd". They were arrogant, combative, and threw tantrums often. It was always major drama and I had my fill of organizing and leading raids from EQ. I left WoW at the top of the content of the time, then returned from time to time to play the part of "Raider 012". I noticed progressively raid/group content getting easier. The whole "Heroic" branding became a means make people feel special for doing content that was once called "normal" dungeons and even then they were easy. Most wipes in WoW come from people just not paying attention or being stupid. It wasn't like it was in EQ where a 3-5 hour fight was a wipe because someone in the healing chain was a hair late or the tank didn't time their aoe taunt to pick up the mob on transition. That is not to say that WoW is completely easy mode, there are some fights that were "difficult", however they progressively got easier over the course. People just got used to the dumbed down content and thought it the norm.

I remember my friends and I were playing LoTRO and we had one friend who was still doing end content in a top guild in WoW. He joined us for a while and left because he complained about the dungeons being pointlessly difficult and a waste of time. He had become used to cheese ball tactics of play.

In the end, what does it matter anyway? I say I found the game to be too dumbed down, not in the direction I cared for and I was swarmed by a bunch of groupies screaming "Leave Britney Alone!!!". This need for someones favorite game to be "da bestest eva!" is an example of how people end up with blinders on and can't see the problems I mentioned. Either they really suck at raiding or they have been spoiled for so long with WoW that spamming a button becomes a major feat to which participation trophy's are showered down.

Now I would love to offer some of my past experience with raiding to those struggling, but... well... the games are so far dumbed down, the character development meaningless, and the combat a constant spam of action sequence without real thought that I can't bring myself to waste the time to play them. I tried with my current play, I am not some freaking idiot who just played the game without researching. I was reading up on the entire skills and progressions, how talents work now, how everything fits together for various focuses and roles. I watched videos on content I had missed as well as top end content, paying attention to the boss mobs, their abilities and how people dealt with them. So no, this wasn't an ignorant quick play of the game and dismissal. I don't need to "be there" to understand mechanics and if a fight is easy or not. Like I said, I have led raids through multiple MMOs from their inception. Besides, it isn't flipping rocket science.

 

[J1M]

Move Xenich to Prosper's forum.

 

[Xenich]

Move Xenich to Prosper's forum.

/sigh

Yep, blinders... blind faith and devotion. "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!!!"

 

[abija]

And you mean to say you just waltzed through Naxx40 without any difficulty when even the top guilds at that time had some problems?

Nobody waltzed through since even top guilds were still full of baddies (migrations just opened and at least eu servers been fucked for a considerable time after Nax launch which made it a terrible time to migrate). I just said we had less issues than you made it sound in your raid.

Sorry, but when content is consumed within days and weeks, it isn't hard.

Let me make it easier for you, in which of the following content have you progressed when it was launched:
- tbc: t1, t2, sunwell
- wotlk: ulduar heroic, icecrown heroic
- cataclysm, panda: any of the heroic raids

 

[Xenich]

And you mean to say you just waltzed through Naxx40 without any difficulty when even the top guilds at that time had some problems?

Nobody waltzed through since even top guilds were still full of baddies (migrations just opened and at least eu servers been fucked for a considerable time after Nax launch which made it a terrible time to migrate). I just said we had less issues than you made it sound in your raid.

Sorry, but when content is consumed within days and weeks, it isn't hard.

Let me make it easier for you, in which of the following content have you progressed when it was launched:
- tbc: t1, t2, sunwell
- wotlk: ulduar heroic, icecrown heroic
- cataclysm, panda: any of the heroic raids

All except some of Cata, none of Panda. That however does not change the fact that when you blow through content in a short time, it isn't hard. Well, it may be "difficult" at times, but not the "hard" so many claim. Keep in mind that I am used to raiding EQ where content took months to beat as opposed to the face rolling that most guilds do in WoW. You can certainly say they do so well because they are... skilled, amazing players, etc... but I would take issue with that. The real issue is an ever devolving design of play to facilitate a need for the players to feel success. WoWs business model is selling "fun" to their player base and that player base would throw tantrums if it took months to finish content. It is an instant grat crowd that finds more enjoyment in mundane farming of gear that is useless than it does in going up against content over and over until success is finally truly earned.

 

[J1M]

Let me guess, 'all but some of cata' translates to: "All but heroic Sinestra and Ragnaros, but not because that was the hardest content... There were totally other reasons guys! That optional boss was like, too easy, honest!! PS: Everquest."

 

[abija]

You actually did Magtheridon, Vashj and Kael'thas pre nerf and still think MC was harder because it lasted 5 months? I so can't believe that...

 

[Xenich]

You actually did Magtheridon, Vashj and Kael'thas pre nerf and still think MC was harder because it lasted 5 months? I so can't believe that...

How would you explain it then?

Don't give me the "resist gear" excuse. Our guild did Ragnaros in a 1/3 of the gear that was "claimed" to be needed for him. Only key players needed gear, the rest just needed to not be retarded.

 

[Zed]

MC had much tougher trash and took a lot longer to clear. You didn't really need as much practice on bosses, it was mostly just getting there.
Also, respawns of said trash.
Simply put, it just took a lot of time.

Only tanks needed fire res for ragnaros.

 

[abija]

How would you explain it then?

Don't give me the "resist gear" excuse. Our guild did Ragnaros in a 1/3 of the gear that was "claimed" to be needed for him. Only key players needed gear, the rest just needed to not be retarded.

Two main reasons:
- instance was full of bugs that took a long time to fix (including ragnaros bugging and requiring a reset of the instance after first wipe, reset that was in itself an esoteric procedure)
- raids were full of bad players and there weren't tools to spot them easily

It's also clear you haven't done a single pull on the encounters I mentioned before nerfs. You just extrapolate from retarded shit like your guild "beating Ragnaros with 1/3 of the gear claimed". Hell wouldn't be surprised if you did MC with Dire Maul gear and had no clue of how big of an upgrade it was.

 

[Xenich]

MC had much tougher trash and took a lot longer to clear. You didn't really need as much practice on bosses, it was mostly just getting there.
Also, respawns of said trash.
Simply put, it just took a lot of time.

Only tanks needed fire res for ragnaros.

The trash was easy, though agreed, it took some time to clear. They were on 12 hour re-spawns and once you cleared the boss of that section, a lot of them stopped spawning. Even so, it only took bit of time to clear to each boss. Once people mastered a given boss, it took them very little time to push through the trash and on to the bosses. MC took time because the fights were longer and required a bit more endurance so if you messed up, it was another long fight to win. Not only that, but trash had special conditions which were their own mini boss fights (doing the dog packs for example) causing the raids to wipe often until they mastered them. So while I agree trash was part of the time, it was only a small component. The fact is, the fights were difficult and took time to master.

BWL got rid of a lot of the "trash" fights that MC had, and it still took over 2 months for Nef to be taken down, though to be honest BWL was cheapend by disregard many tactics for the sake of DPSing everything down. That was the trend though. People wanted faster, and faster progression where raids and group content took mere minutes of play. Trash had to be removed, fights had to be turned into circus events where people could be done quickly. No endurance, no need to last a fight with continued application like earlier content, just... be quick, DPS it down and go home with all that purple loot. /shrug