What's the hardest non reflex based game you played?

[Arthandas]

Not excluding action games in overall, just those that rely on player's reflex to create difficulty, like for example bullet hell shmups or Devil May Cry clones.

I'll start with Desktop Dungeons which on later dungeons requires you to think like 10 moves ahead starting with turn 1. It's hard to explain this game's difficulty to someone who never played it but it's one of those games that really punishes the lack of foresight or thinking overall and rewards creativity and planning. Anyone who reached vicious level dungeons will know the joys of spending more time on calculations/theorycrafting than on actual gameplay.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Desktop Dungeons is definitely way up there. I'm convinced you're outright reliant on RNG for the hardest ones to even be possible; but there's definitely an immense skill ceiling there. Roguelikes in general are pretty difficult all around. If I were to single one out, IVAN seems like a special kind of nasty- even with obscene metagaming and luck, the game is still difficult to even finish normally. No idea how people attempt the alternate endings.

As for other genres... some difficulty based romhacks for console games would probably qualify, but I haven't actually gotten around to properly trying any of these. Well, aside from the ancient cave hack for FF5; but that turns the game into a roguelike of sorts.

 

[Cassidy]

Jagged Alliance 2 1.13 on INSANE with counter-attacks everywhere enabled. Would probably be Wizardry IV instead were I a fan of blobbers.

 

[Morkar Left]

Chess

 

[CyberWhale]

RPG Codex.

 

[Arthandas]

Desktop Dungeons is definitely way up there. I'm convinced you're outright reliant on RNG for the hardest ones to even be possible

Actually the game doesn't rely too much on RNG. Under normal circumstances the attacks never miss and damage is non random. The main variables are enemy placement, type of god's altar and equipment in shops (much of these can be offset by kingdom preparations).

If I were to single one out, IVAN seems like a special kind of nasty- even with obscene metagaming and luck, the game is still difficult to even finish normally. No idea how people attempt the alternate endings.

I heard about it and its hardcore damage system but never played it since the game is very unpolished and basically abandoned.

 

[Arthandas]

RPG Codex.

RPG Codex is very easy. Just be sure to maintain 50-50 sarcasm and edginess ratio, spit diarrhea on everything that's not PST, pray daily to Brian Fargo and treat consoles as AIDS.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Desktop Dungeons is definitely way up there. I'm convinced you're outright reliant on RNG for the hardest ones to even be possible

Actually the game doesn't rely too much on RNG. Under normal circumstances the attacks never miss and damage is non random. The main variables are enemy placement, type of god's altar and equipment in shops (much of these can be offset by kingdom preparations).

If I were to single one out, IVAN seems like a special kind of nasty- even with obscene metagaming and luck, the game is still difficult to even finish normally. No idea how people attempt the alternate endings.

I heard about it and its hardcore damage system but never played it since the game is very unpolished and basically abandoned.

Enemy placement is a pretty huge one (I ended up surrendering after spending ages trying to beat a level that ends with a bullshit arena thing with 3 random enemies you have no way to prepare for) and god altars are a pretty big deal too, since you want as many as possible and of the right variety to get the most faith with the least consequences.

 

[CyberWhale]

RPG Codex.

RPG Codex is very easy. Just be sure to maintain 50-50 sarcasm and edginess ratio, spit diarrhea on everything that's not PST, pray daily to Brian Fargo and treat consoles as AIDS.

You still haven't come across special encounters - they usually boil down to an endless barrage of crazy ideologies and logical fallacies that are used by spending an infinite amount of autism points. The prescribed tactics you mentioned above will spare you of finding yourself in the torment of Prosperland, but every choice eventually leads to a failure state - true ending will only be achieved ones Cleve officially releases the full Grimoire to the public.

 

[octavius]

Uninvited.
I was never anywhere near completing it.

RPG Codex.

RPG Codex is very easy. Just be sure to maintain 50-50 sarcasm and edginess ratio, spit diarrhea on everything that's not PST, pray daily to Brian Fargo and treat consoles as AIDS.

Or just blame it on the jews for instant win.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Deadly Rooms of Death: Architect's Edition.

Haven't played Desktop Dungeons, but the idea of needing to appease the RNG god doesn't exactly appeal to me in terms of "hardest game ever". DROD has none of that, it just lays down a challenge and dares you to accept it...and the Architect's Edition doesn't have any of the safety nets of the updated editions.

 

[J1M]

The last two levels of SpaceChem are very difficult.

 

[kwanzabot]

wages of war or thunderscape

wages of war is some shitty ja1 clone

thunderscape is some old blobber from the mid 90s

i could probably beat those games if i played them today but they were hard as fk when i was 10 or so lol

 

[Alienman]

Jagged Alliance 2 1.13 on INSANE with counter-attacks everywhere enabled. Would probably be Wizardry IV instead were I a fan of blobbers.

So how did it go?

 

[No Great Name]

Wizardry IV. I hate those spinner tiles.

 

[Sothpaw]

Cardhunter? Maybe BG2 with Tactics and Ascension enabled? Not sure. Was going to say Starcraft 2 and DOTA 2 then I read the thread title.

 

[Fug]

Desktop Dungeons is definitely way up there. I'm convinced you're outright reliant on RNG for the hardest ones to even be possible

Actually the game doesn't rely too much on RNG. Under normal circumstances the attacks never miss and damage is non random. The main variables are enemy placement, type of god's altar and equipment in shops (much of these can be offset by kingdom preparations).

If I were to single one out, IVAN seems like a special kind of nasty- even with obscene metagaming and luck, the game is still difficult to even finish normally. No idea how people attempt the alternate endings.

I heard about it and its hardcore damage system but never played it since the game is very unpolished and basically abandoned.

Gonna have to agree with you, IVAN and therefore CLIVAN are both incredibly difficult to actually succeed at, but it's still fun as fuck regardless. They're just incredibly random even for a roguelike, although it makes sense when the game is called 'A violent road to Death'.
My last best run was where I got so lucky that I found a broken arcanite helmet, and a scroll of golem creation. I had an arcanite golem in the very first floor of the game, and basically annihilated the rest of the game.

 

[Norfleet]

NYSE. It's not an easy game to win and the PvP is brutal, especially with all the botting.

 

[dbx]

Not a single mention of Knights of the Chalice?
Massive decline

 

[Siveon]

FFT with 1.3 patch. Fuck that sandbagging noise.

 

[markec]

Warhammer Shadow of the Horned Rat, a game that makes grown man cry.

 

[Norfleet]

Not a single mention of Knights of the Chalice?
Massive decline

Fah, KOTC was easy. I was doing an LP of that before everyone apparently lost interest in the thread because I bored them to death, and I couldn't find the thread anymore because it got buried. Every single situation seems to have the same solution: Bombardment. Pretty much every encounter involves some variation of "bombard with fireballs until all are dead". If someone finds the thread again, I could continue it with MORE FIRE.

But apparently, I am terribly boring at games.

 

[Alienman]

The Dig. Some of the puzzles... and without the help of internet.

 

[Baron Dupek]

Dust (Pył) from Optimus Nexus. It was called "Quake from Poland" but it was actually more like Thief. Ammo was really scarce, stimulants rare like Yeti in the desert.
What I never undestand was "why burst/series do less damage than single bullet?", I knew it was to encourage player to stop being trigger happy and be sure with every shot, but stll feels weird.

Which also remind me about Robinson's Requiem. So many ways to die...

Incubation was nice introduction to tactical games (like FFT but for people with weaboo allergy) but addon - Wilderness Mission is different, toughter kind of beast. Feels more like logic puzzles than tactical game where you shoot xenos. Xenos... and Space Hulk.

 

[Arthandas]

The Dig. Some of the puzzles... and without the help of internet.

I played it like a month ago and eventually got bored. I don't think it was especially hard comparing to other p&c games.