Which Spiderweb game should I play first?

[Urthor]

Title, actually don't know anything about dear Mr Vogel's work, and idk if I should start by just playing game 1 in the Avernum trilogy or if there are finer works.

Preferably I'd just like to start with his best game of all and work my way down tbh, which is Avernum escape from the pit according to Metacritic, and Metacritic would never lie to me would it...

 

[Mustawd]

Geneforge is best game but UI might give you cancer. There are some mods to help with that. Be warned that it is an old school interface.

If you're an autist like me, who likes to play games in order in a series, I'd start with Avadon, since it's simpler systemswise. I actually tend to do the opposite of what you do. I like playing the worse series first. That way I dont get spoiled.

 

[Morkar Left]

Avernum I Escape from the pit
If you like it go on to the rest of the series.

If you want a more non-traditional fantasy game play Geneforge.

If you want your fantasy in a historical setting or you like celts or romans play Nethergate.

 

[Urthor]

Sounds like I should really start from escape from the pit since I'm not that incredibly fond of 90s UI "nostalgia" at the best of times

 

[Mustawd]

Escape from the Pit is a solid start.

Avadons are also new, but inferior to Avernums from my understanding.

 

[Scroo]

As others said, Escape from the Pit is a great start. It was the first Vogel game I played and I had an absolute blast.

 

[vivec]

As others said, Escape from the Pit is a great start. It was the first Vogel game I played and I had an absolute blast.

What makes it good?

 

[taxalot]

Should people just ignore the original Exiles by that point ?

 

[Mustawd]

Sorta?. The originals had some differences that the remakes dont capture.

For one, it's a too down iconographic perspective. Some ppl still enjoy that kinda Ultima/King's Crown style. Second, it has a 6 man party size. Also, IIRC it has AoE spells which the remakes dont have.

The interface is just godawful, and well..it's an okder series. So a lot if quality of improvement things are missing.

But yah, after playig EftP I dont have any desire to play the originals.

 

[Metro]

Geneforge is the only stuff worth playing. Vogel is meh.

 

[Scroo]

As others said, Escape from the Pit is a great start. It was the first Vogel game I played and I had an absolute blast.

What makes it good?

I liked the general atmosphere. The world felt believable and the whole setting of being in this huge cave complex just sparkled my imagination. Combat objectively is not the greatest, but at least it is turn based (even tho not very tactical). But I enjoyed the quests, the writing and especially the rewarding exploration.

 

[mondblut]

Should people just ignore the original Exiles by that point ?

They should ignore everything that came after

10 replies, and nobody said "screw the popamole Avernum crap and play the real thing" yet? Codex, where are you going?

 

[Mustawd]

Dude, I think the game looks good and combat def looks more complex, but I don't have the patience to RTFM nor navigate Windows 3.1 interfaces.

So yah. Decline I guess.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Should people just ignore the original Exiles by that point ?

They should ignore everything that came after

10 replies, and nobody said "screw the popamole Avernum crap and play the real thing" yet? Codex, where are you going?

Alas, the modern technological environment is destroying the very concept of "the original creation". People go back to old movies and remake them, but not in a new way, just literally editing the original movie and re-releasing it, and as more and more media is in digital-only format, often with auto-updating, and continuous patching, the whole idea of there being an original version of a game is becoming a lost concept, possibly even literally lost. The game you played in June is not the same game the guy played in September, even though they seem the same and even have the same title. Escape from the pit now has three versions, all of which would have had countless patches and updates. At what point do we let the old stuff go? Not literally, but as a recommendation to others. Should we only ever recommend the 'original' Tetris, or will we recommend whichever version of Tetris is on steam currently, etc etc.

As a great believer in preserving the original article of something, this annoys me greatly, as it likely does others here, but preserving is different to recommending.

 

[Mustawd]

The exiles are still there to play...As are the old Avernums.

Available on GOG or Vogel's site directly.

 

[mondblut]

remake them, but not in a new way, just literally editing the original movie and re-releasing it

I wish that would actually happen to games.

At what point do we let the old stuff go? Not literally, but as a recommendation to others. Should we only ever recommend the 'original' Tetris, or will we recommend whichever version of Tetris is on steam currently, etc etc.

We recommend the version of Tetris which has a fucking party of 6 and traditional proper spellcasting system instead of popamole shit Avernum introduced

 

[Agesilaus]

Nethergate. If you can't handle the interface... Geneforge. If you still can't handle the interface/ graphics... the new Avernums.

Avadon is shit

 

[Siveon]

Geneforge is pretty great.

Totally not biased in any way. Nope.

 

[Urthor]

Alrighty I am escaping from the pit. UI is decent, the grid squares are tiny so first step is a magnifying glass at 1440p, next step is dat manual

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

remake them, but not in a new way, just literally editing the original movie and re-releasing it

I wish that would actually happen to games.

Erm... it does... as was explained in the post you quoted but didn't read/understand...

 

[Agesilaus]

Alrighty I am escaping from the pit. UI is decent, the grid squares are tiny so first step is a magnifying glass at 1440p, next step is dat manual

Change the resolution, everything will become larger. Check the resolutions that match the ratio that works best on your screen (if you're 1920x1080 then you want to check the resolutions that are 16:9). I play on 1280x720 I think, but other resolutions also work okay. Everything is much larger.

Also, there are two options in the menu (at least in A3) that offer larger text and larger game window. If you want to keep at your current resolution, check if those options work.

 

[Fowyr]

Exile or Geneforge. To play Exile, you need to install Win 3.11 under the DosBox. It's pretty straightforward, even if you never made it. Just add SVGA and Sound Blaster drivers afterwards.

Exiles are now freeware, BTW. Just download them from Vogel's site.

Stay away from Avernums and their remakes.

Original Nethergate was good too, remake was a great dumbing down, I played both versions and could attest it.

The game you played in June is not the same game the guy played in September, even though they seem the same and even have the same title. Escape from the pit now has three versions, all of which would have had countless patches and updates. At what point do we let the old stuff go? Not literally, but as a recommendation to others.

Let's count. there are I think, without consulting my archive, two major versions of Exile. 1.1 and 2.0. First had different graphics and now is very rare. 2.0 is a version from Vogel's site with Exile 3's graphic. Avernum and its remake had just one version with minor bugs fixed, as I remember.

 

[Fowyr]

This is my post where I listed that was removed in Avernum and Nethergate: Resurrection.

http://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/jeff-vogel-soapbox-thread.91814/page-20#post-5015828

 

[Mustawd]

The loss of so many Exile spells is a shame. Has he ever talked about why they were removed? I'm guessing it might have something to do with a 4 man party vs 6?

 

[Rahdulan]

Nethergate. If you can't handle the interface... Geneforge. If you still can't handle the interface/ graphics... the new Avernums.

Avadon is shit

I found Nethergate to be his most overlooked game, but would have to agree with mustawd. and recommend Geneforge as well. I'm just not sure how much of the saga you have to partake in to get the most out of it. Perhaps someone who has replayed the games recently can comment on it.