You always like to read a little bit then extrapolate and base whole narratives on the little that you read.
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alkeides 2.0
Wyrmlord
Source: Tom Holland, Christoph Luxenberg, Patricia Crone, Emmet Scott, and Muhammad Sven Kalisch.
alkeides 2.0
Patricia Crone retracted her early publication re: Hagarism. Holland is a pop history author who doesn't know Arabic, not a serious scholar. Established scholars find that many Arabic terms in the Quran do make sense as Syriac adaptations, but "Luxenberg" goes too far in claiming it is a complete calque -- Luxenberg is basically a more scholarly Taleb, a Levantine with an axe to grind with Islam.
alkeides 2.0
Your hypothesis -- that Umayyads existed for a few centuries (!) before creating the figure of Mahound is completely implausible considering the succession crisis with Ali and shieeet.
Wyrmlord
Imam Ali is not a real person. Muawiyah I was the first ruler of the Arabs. Imam Ali's life is a complete copy of Jesus' life story - all the way down to supporters being in denial that he was dead. Imam Ali was entirely invented to justify succession wars in later eras by claiming Muawiyah's family to be usurpers.
Wyrmlord
Why would a Lebanese Christian with an axe to grind against Islam try to claim that Islam is basically Eastern Christianity co-opted and stolen by Arabs?
It would lead to the horrifying conclusion that Muslims are nothing more than Christians, and that the biggest enemies and oppressors of Christians in the Middle East are merely fellow Christians.
It would lead to the horrifying conclusion that Muslims are nothing more than Christians, and that the biggest enemies and oppressors of Christians in the Middle East are merely fellow Christians.
alkeides 2.0
Uhh, that's the modus operandi for persecution of heresies Christians have had since their beginnings. Gnostics were based on Christianity but with their own fan-fics, same as Islam.
Wyrmlord
If you want to condemn voodoo Christianity in Brazil, you say it is an African pagan invasion of Christianity. You do not say it is a misunderstood form of Christianity, but still Christianity.
alkeides 2.0
Tell Irenaeus (author of Contra Haereses, not our local Brasilian) or St Augustine that. Orthodox Catholic Roman Christians persecuted Donatists, Marcionites, Arians etc without accusing them of paganism.
FreeKaner
The succession after Muhammad (PBUH) is all very well documented. Especially so for Umayyads who were merchants from Mecca and kept extensive records. Same for Abbasids despite the bloody succession, thanks to their Iranian tradition of scholarship they kept extensive records.
Wyrmlord
Why do we have buildings, coinage, and monuments to Muawiyah but none to Imam Ali, Uthman, Umar, or Abu Bakr?
They say Umar ibn al Khattab constructed a prayer house called al Aqsa in Jerusalem. It was allegedly destroyed by an earthquake, until the Ummayads "reconstructed" it c. 200 years later.
They say Umar ibn al Khattab constructed a prayer house called al Aqsa in Jerusalem. It was allegedly destroyed by an earthquake, until the Ummayads "reconstructed" it c. 200 years later.
Wyrmlord
The Rashiduns never seem to leave a trace (astonishing for supposedly the fastest conquerors in the world), and whenever there seems to be a hint of Rashidun existence, it comes from the Ummayads (and that too latter day Ummayads).
If only Muawiyah had left monuments, coinage, and documents to Ali, Uthman, Umar, or Abu Bakr! If the Rashidun were real, why was Muawiyah so insistent on being silent about them?
If only Muawiyah had left monuments, coinage, and documents to Ali, Uthman, Umar, or Abu Bakr! If the Rashidun were real, why was Muawiyah so insistent on being silent about them?
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