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Better Gun Porn ARPG System?

Phelot

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
17,908
All the innocent tears shed by the Codex over games like AP or ME made me start to think about how guns in these sort of games are handled.

It seems that action RPG's either use percentages or dice roles to determine if a hit is made such as in AP (I believe) and Morrowind (even if it's not really an aRPG) This has the awkward effect of having the player clearly land hits that are still calculated as misses. This is not popamole enough.

The other system seems to be the likes of FO3 were the game is clearly just an FPS and stats and skills don't seem to effect whether you make a hit. Just have the crosshair over a target and you'll hit it. Oddly enough, having a higher small arms skill seems to only increase damage. This doesn't make sense.

So instead, why not have an FPS and aRPG hybrid that does away with traditional Agility, Strength, Dexterity, etc and just focuses on action based skills? The skills would all be related to guns and how well the player uses them.

A quick rundown on the skills:

Draw: How quickly you can pull out your gun and ready it for fire. Perhaps best in a Western setting, but I can still see it in modern settings if concealment is important.

Steady Aim: How steady your PC can hold his weapon.

Reload: How quickly your character can reload their firearm.

Throwing: For grenades and especially accuracy of the throw. I never liked the ridiculous failures that would occur in say Fallout because you have a low throwing skill. A low throwing skill shouldn't have to mean you throw one way but it goes the complete opposite way. It's more for pinpoint accuracy.

Firearms: This skill would be made up of numerous sub genres such as revolvers, assault rifles, pistols, etc... I suppose this would replace a "handling" skill. Basically, this skill would determine which weapons you can properly handle.

Nerves: I would image this as a sort of counter to unluckiness. A low nerves skill might cause your other skills to experience critical failures such as dropping your ammo when reloading, jerking the gun up when firing, etc. I believe it would be reasonable to have whatever current tensity determine just how effective your nerves skill is. So, if your PC is taking a lot of fire, then you'll need a higher nerves skill in order to function properly, otherwise the PC will have to take cover and wait until the tension cools down.

I'm sure there could be more, but this is the basic idea. The point of all of this is to hopefully create a more realistic FPS that still depends on the player's skills.

More later if I can. I actually have to do work now.
 

Unradscorpion

Arbiter
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
1,488

It seems that action RPG's either use percentages or dice roles to determine if a hit is made such as in AP (I believe) and Morrowind (even if it's not really an aRPG) This has the awkward effect of having the player clearly land hits that are still calculated as misses. This is not popamole enough.

The other system seems to be the likes of FO3 were the game is clearly just an FPS and stats and skills don't seem to effect whether you make a hit. Just have the crosshair over a target and you'll hit it. Oddly enough, having a higher small arms skill seems to only increase damage. This doesn't make sense.

How about Deus Ex, eh?
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
phelot said:
The other system seems to be the likes of FO3 were the game is clearly just an FPS and stats and skills don't seem to effect whether you make a hit. Just have the crosshair over a target and you'll hit it. Oddly enough, having a higher small arms skill seems to only increase damage. This doesn't make sense.

Not true. Skill affects bullet spread (and sway in the case of scoped weapons). Both of these will affect your ability to hit accurately. In the case of some weapons (like miniguns or shotguns) it doesn't really matter since you should be using them from a relatively short distance anyway, but it's pretty ridiculous how some rpgs force you to miss shots any retard could make due to a lack of skill. I'd like to see games do away with AC completely. AC exists only because lazy developers don't want to come up with a decent armor system. The only enemies who should be avoiding hits consistently are those who are highly proficient in a dodge-like skill. In other words, it makes sense for a rogue or agile warrior to avoid attacks, but characters like knights in heavy armor or wizards should just get whacked automatically (luck aside if it's implemented) and be forced to rely on their armor/magic to protect themselves. And yes, I know AC is an abstract for "your armor got hit instead of you" but its general implementation is piss poor and unrealistic.
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
7,715
ME isn't really like that and it doesn't hit well if you're in VATS with low skills in FO3. The furriness is upset.
 

denizsi

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
9,927
Location
bosphorus
I think a good deal of the "My crosshair is on the target's head but I'm still missing WTF!!!" frustration stems from the game's inability to communicate that idea visually and adding in pixel-accurate crosshairs. There should be proper animations to reflect, for instance, that a firearm would be in constant motion in a low-level character's hands and perhaps a little exaggerated recoil animations when fired.

When translated to melee combat, this is the lack of miss/dodge/deflect/block animations on the characters.

Mastermind said:
The only enemies who should be avoiding hits consistently are those who are highly proficient in a dodge-like skill. In other words, it makes sense for a rogue or agile warrior to avoid attacks, but characters like knights in heavy armor or wizards should just get whacked automatically (luck aside if it's implemented) and be forced to rely on their armor/magic to protect themselves.

Why? The thing I've always disliked with medieval/melee weapon skills in games was that they never counted for the fact that learning how to fight with a weapon involves how to protect yourself as well. Where are the blocks, deflects and counter-attacks? These should be tied into the skills, not some absurd skill exclusively to dodge or block.

What's the point of having rogues anyway? They aren't supposed to be general-purpose fighters. In games, they've always been a shitty cosmetic make-up for "variety".
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
denizsi said:
Why? The thing I've always disliked with medieval/melee weapon skills in games was that they never counted for the fact that learning how to fight with a weapon involves how to protect yourself as well. Where are the blocks, deflects and counter-attacks? These should be tied into the skills, not some absurd skill exclusively to dodge or block.

By avoiding hits I mean literally avoiding them (dodging). I actually would like to see some parrying too (kotor had it, but it was just visual display for AC), but I can see why it would be pretty difficult to implement.

What's the point of having rogues anyway? They aren't supposed to be general-purpose fighters. In games, they've always been a shitty cosmetic make-up for "variety".

I like variety though. I don't mind them as long as they're useful and fun to play.
 

chzr

Scholar
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
1,238
87004535689652169314.jpg
 

denizsi

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
9,927
Location
bosphorus
I'd like ISAF version of Rainbow 6 where you conduct operations on the opposing terrorist population.
 

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