Darkness in old games.

[Forest Dweller]

I've noticed that any time I play an older, first-person game it is considerably darker than newer games. For instance, the Thief games and the original Doom, which I just finished. I'm trying to figure out whether to change the settings, or not. On the one hand, I know there's clearly supposed to be dark areas, but the question is: how dark? Are they supposed to be pitch black, like I get a lot of the times, or are they supposed to be dark but still viewable? In Thief and Doom, there were a lot of areas where I felt like I was literally feeling my way through the level. I'm wondering if that is how it is supposed to be. In Thief 2, I changed the settings so that outlines of walls and celings and such were visible, but my gamma setting was all the way up. How do I know how it is supposed to be?

I'm using a CRT, by the way.

 

[ElectricOtter]

For Doom, it depends on what source port you're using. Chocolate Doom should have all the lighting correct, but ZDoom renders the things near you fullbright instead of the way vanilla Doom does it. I'm not sure about Boom-engine source ports, I'd have to test it out.

 

[Forest Dweller]

zDoom is what it is, I think.

 

[denizsi]

I haven't noticed a particular trend shift in design regarding darkness. Few games have had really dark areas with low visibility.

 

[SCO]

Thief uses the "Dark" engine for a reason. The darkness is intended, you play thief on a dark room so your vision can get used to it. If it doesn't, and your vision is naturally shitty, it is acceptable to raise the gamma somewhat, but honestly this makes the game easier (and a bit more visually shit).

 

[Malakal]

I think its because of older avaiable color palettes and weaker screens/resolutions. I seriosuly doubt it was intended but I do recall older games being less clear (ie darker).

I am glad this is mostly gone since my eyesight isnt that good. Bloom is, of course, another thing...

 

[Forest Dweller]

Thief uses the "Dark" engine for a reason. The darkness is intended, you play thief on a dark room so your vision can get used to it. If it doesn't, and your vision is naturally shitty, it is acceptable to raise the gamma somewhat, but honestly this makes the game easier (and a bit more visually shit).

Yeah I usually do turn the lights off when I play games. The question is: are Thief levels supposed to merely be "dark," or are some parts actually supposed to be pitch-black? Because I DO get that on default settings.

 

[SCO]

I've heard tell it depends on your monitor and the way they treat "pure" black - possibly the game was intended for the normal quality of 1996 monitors (though i hear that ctr monitors black is better than lcd). I personally uptick the gamma twice since my vision is shit.

 

[MetalCraze]

are some parts actually supposed to be pitch-black?

Yes. Turning up brightness or gamma too much will be your worst mistake because you will totally ruin the great Thief lighting with all those 16 bit gradient artifacts.

though i hear that ctr monitors black is better than lcd

That's actually a lie (well now it is, 10 years ago LCDs did suck hard)

In fact Thief games look better on modern LCDs because they have far better contrast capabilities than CRTs.

 

[Phelot]

I like dark areas in games which are sadly disappearing. It looks much more natural rather then having everything super bright.

 

[visions]

I'm using a CRT, by the way.

 

[Fowyr]

Use Nokia Monitor Test. If you don't see stripes darker than 6%-9% and brightness raised to max, your tube start to losing emission. Sometimes it may be amendable by playing with the screen regulator on the FBT inside monitor. (danger! 220V and 18 kV are present) But doing this you really shortens tube's life. Do this only when you starting to have problem seeing the desktop.
And many levels of Thief and Doom are really dark. When you adjusting gamma in the Thief, look at the game menu, not on the real game. It must not be bright, but not be too dark too.

 

[JarlFrank]

Actually I didn't find any of the Thief games overly dark. Thief 3 had the darkest places I think, but even there it wasn't really pitch black. Anyway, they're supposed to have dark places so you can hide in the shadows, so I never found it to be irritating, and it's never so dark that you can't see at all anyway.

 

[Forest Dweller]

See, that's the opposite of what I got. I haven't played that much of Thief 3, but it is the lightest of the three on default settings. In fact pretty much all modern games* are fine with default settings. It's really only pre-2000 games where it seems like they're darker. There are only two possibilities:

1) The games are more "hardcore" in terms of darkness, just like they're more hardcore in other areas.

or

2) The games were made for settings on older monitors which newer monitors for some reason don't translate well, requiring some tweaking to get it right.

I'm starting to feel like it may be number 2, but what could the difference be?

I'll do that monitor test.

*Starcraft 2 has actually given me some problems. On some of the dark maps, it's hard for me to make out ledges and ramps on unrevealed areas. That's fucked me up before.

 

[Sceptic]

Doom did have some sectors where lighting is set to 0. With the way the engine renders light, this means that anything in that sector is COMPLETELY black. Nothing visible at all.

Remember the engine didn't use light sources. Whenever you see a sliver of light coming through a doorway or window, it's a design trick. The sliver is a separate sector with its own light value, usually in-between the outdoor and indoor one.

 

[MetalCraze]

Actually some older games (like Thief, System Shock 2, Dungeon Keeper series and UT) were indeed designed to be darker to fit their darker tone. Thief is also a horror game, not just stealth.
Doom isn't dark though.

Today we just have a neverending stream of "what's there behind all the bloom" and so games seem lighter.

 

[ElectricOtter]

zDoom is what it is, I think.

Yep, darkness itself should be rendered fine then. It's just the light levels around you when in darkness that ZDoom screws up. I wouldn't worry about it. The only major source port that actually seriously fucks up the way light, dark, and colors are rendered is Doom95.

EDIT:

Doom did have some sectors where lighting is set to 0. With the way the engine renders light, this means that anything in that sector is COMPLETELY black. Nothing visible at all.

Small correction: even in pitch-black areas, there is a small "cone" of light around you. In vanilla Doom, it's only moderately lighter than the sector. In ZDoom, it's fullbright (light value of 225, I believe).

 

[ghostdog]

though i hear that ctr monitors black is better than lcd

That's actually a lie (well now it is, 10 years ago LCDs did suck hard)

In fact Thief games look better on modern LCDs because they have far better contrast capabilities than CRTs.

What you say may apply only for some of the best IPS/PVA/MVA lcd panels. CRTs are infinitely better in black levels and colors than any LCD using a TN panel, and 80% of the lcd pc monitors in the market are TN.

Also, all these "contrast ratios" of 20.000 or 50.000 that manufacturers claim their monitors/lcdtvs can achieve, is complete bullshit.

 

[MetalCraze]

The "black" on CRT is the colour of its screen which is always brownish-grey. On LCDs it's about the technologies of not letting the light through when "showing" black which got quite advanced in the past 1-2 years.

I used CRTs for a very long time, but now I can't imagine using them again due to how high-contrast and crisp everything looks on LCD. And I'm not talking about manufacturer's promo-stickers with big numbers.
And then you also have the lack of annoying screen-refresh plaguing every single CRT.

 

[Norfleet]

I have never seen a "Screen Refresh" issue on any CRT. LCDs, on the other hand, have annoying "screen trails" that occur when the picture changes rapidly, such as you waving your mouse or action occurring on the screen. What is this "Screen Refresh" you speak of?

 

[MetalCraze]

My bad engrish. I was talking about screen flashing due to the tube needing to constantly redraw what's on the screen which gets worse with each bigger resolution

 

[Forest Dweller]

That certainly sounds like refreshing to me.