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Got brutally raped by pirates in FFE

Heresiarch

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Mar 8, 2008
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So, I've tried to play as the game intended to - win the race, and sell medicine to the system with plague - and 70% of the time when I go bring the medicine to the port, pirates will show up and intercept me (How is that even possible? Intercepting a 1000+ KM/S spaceship? Is that really how Newtonian physics works?) and blast me to smitheres. How the heck am I supposed to surive? Buy shields and bigger guns to fight them properly? This is the first time I've got so frustrated by pirates in a space sim. Elite fanbois like DraQ plz help.
 

Fowyr

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crazy_dave said:
Dude, can you tell me what game are you talking about? FFE = ?
Frontier: First Encounters.
Hm. Try to run. Or fight better and save a lot. I remember destroying shielded Imperial Courier with only 1MW Pulse laser, but it was sooo long. Pity what missiles and mines are useless. Missiles in the Elite was awesome.
 

DraQ

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Heresiarch said:
So, I've tried to play as the game intended to - win the race, and sell medicine to the system with plague - and 70% of the time when I go bring the medicine to the port, pirates will show up and intercept me (How is that even possible? Intercepting a 1000+ KM/S spaceship? Is that really how Newtonian physics works?)
Yes.

Intercepts are actually fairly simple.
Ships in Frontier generally ignore things like Hohmann transfer orbits and such, because they can - they are fusion powered torchships, with insane delta-v budgets and very high maximum accelerations. They don't need to bother with fuel conservation, so the common way to travel is accelerate as long as you can, then start decelerating as late as you can afford to without buzzing past your destination or causing a mass extinction event by cratering at several percent of c - typically, "as late as you can afford to" means about half of the way if you fly on manual and are willing to flip your ship and travel the remaining distance backwards while braking at full burn, much earlier than half of the way if you're braking with retros, as it's typically done by the autopilot. This simplifies things a lot.

Your typical pirate will notice your arrival cloud about week prior to your arrival and do their best to come close before you come through. There is also possibility of following a ship from another system using hyperspace cloud analyser to determine the destination. In any case, a pirate will usually lie in wait not far from your hyperspace exit. In such situation, where the interceptor starts roughly behind the interceptee, an intercept is trivial as it's pretty much reduced to 1D work - the interceptor just needs to catch up with you. If you have weaker acceleration, they can simply accelerate slightly faster than you, then reduce overall acceleration gradually to match velocities when they match position. If you have higher acceleration, situation is harder, but still simple - they just have to wait till you start braking and match velocities as you're slowing down. In any case, your trajectory is rather predictable and intercept boils down to finding a spot along your trajectory where you will be travelling at such moment in time and velocity that the intercepting ship can also achieve in the smae moment in place - it's not too different from intercepting an inert object, and only I-War 2 AI can't do that. :P

Given enough delta-v (Frontier ships just have enough delta-v period) intercept WILL happen, unless you accelerate and brake aggresively enough that the pirates can't match speed before you land. The bad news is that the pirates can match speed, because they tend to not fly in heavy freighters. If you really want to try, buy a Falcon or Osprey and fly full manual, no autopilot - maybe you will lose some of the more sluggish ships this way - lighter fighters will catch you anyway.

So, you WILL get raped.

Intercepts from other directions are possible, but more difficult, as you'll also have some serious lateral velocity to cancel out or will be travelling head-on which means that you will not only have to match velocities, but to cancel out your velocity first. This generally requires fast ship. In FFE there is certain interface oversight making it harder - system map doesn't show other vessels, so your only chance of intercepting a distant ship, is locking on their arrival cloud before they arrive - target lock should switch to the arriving vessel automatically. In FE2 it was simple, as you could pick up ships from across the system (and observe their trajectories - that's how I can be sure that pirates just don't pop up from the thin vacuum, but actually intercept you, according to and limited by the laws of physics, including gravity - they only appear to teleport at high time compression as the engine cheats a bit then, during final approach, because if engine ticks are tens of minutes apart it would be impossible to intercept anything, including planets).

http://www.alioth.net/ajn/Intercepts.html <-guide to intercepts in FFE.

Now that I have explained why it is impossible to avoid rape in FFE, it's time to provide some pointers to fighting the rapists off.

and blast me to smitheres. How the heck am I supposed to surive? Buy shields and bigger guns to fight them properly? This is the first time I've got so frustrated by pirates in a space sim. Elite fanbois like DraQ plz help.
No Mr Bond, they expect you to die.

Yeah, as you noticed fighting in FFE can be unforgiving. Sure, if you're good, you can pop a swarm of pirates with 1MW pulse in starting craft without breaking a sweat, but to become good, you need to learn, and getting blown about 1s after alarm sounds is not much of a learning experience. Good way to maximize survival chances is to turn about 90 degrees away from enemy line of fire and accelerate away till they fly by. Then you'll have several seconds to actually determine who, how many and from what direction. If you know the direction of the enemy craft, you can try accelerating towards it and to the side, so that you move away from their line of fire, but closer to them. But don't just buzz past - turn and try to scorch them a little bit - if you have fast craft (and beginning ship is quite fast) you can even stick to their tail. They will have serious problems shaking you off as trying to spin and face you will inevitably mean temporarily showing you broadside which is much easier target.

Of course, then there are missiles - contrary to what Fowyr says they can be deadly (though I know a guy who just casually avoided five missiles at once till they ran out of fuel - while under fire, of course), your best chance if you have no ECM, no chaff and less than 3-5 shields is trying to always accelerate towards the centre of missile's turning arc. In about a minute or so it should run out of fuel and self destruct.

Missiles, were rather pathetic and stupid in FE2 (meaning you generally only used them against large ships or to temporarily drive attackers away) though the AI could use them surprisingly well (meaning firing them nearly point blank, and at the moment when you were least likely to evade), unlike how it used lasers.
In FFE, however, the AI is much smarter and more accurate and so are the missiles.

One more hint - if you're a good shot, you can try ignoring beam lasers and focusing on upper end pulse lasers. They require pinpoint accuracy (especially the mining lasers which isn't really meant to be a weapon and fires sloooowly), but they can hit hard, are much lighter than beam lasers of equivalent power (more shields/cargo) and don't force you to keep the enemy in your sights all the time.

Finally - use JJFFE, not vanilla FFE. JJFFE can run on modern machines and fixes many unfixed bugs and problems. FFE was pretty much alpha on release - after extensive patching and Braben suing the living crap of the publisher it ended up as mid-beta. Still not good.
 

Fowyr

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DraQ said:
Missiles, were rather pathetic and stupid in FE2 (meaning you generally only used them against large ships or to temporarily drive attackers away) though the AI could use them surprisingly well (meaning firing them nearly point blank, and at the moment when you were least likely to evade), unlike how it used lasers.
In FFE, however, the AI is much smarter and more accurate and so are the missiles.
Looks I missed it because was disappointed in the Frontier's missiles. I remember only succesful launches was in assasination missions against big freighters. Thanks, should check again. And, BTW, do you know anyone who succesfully used mines? Tried to set mine field around hypespace exit cloud, but it never worked.
 

DraQ

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Fowyr said:
DraQ said:
Missiles, were rather pathetic and stupid in FE2 (meaning you generally only used them against large ships or to temporarily drive attackers away) though the AI could use them surprisingly well (meaning firing them nearly point blank, and at the moment when you were least likely to evade), unlike how it used lasers.
In FFE, however, the AI is much smarter and more accurate and so are the missiles.
Looks I missed it because was disappointed in the Frontier's missiles. I remember only succesful launches was in assasination missions against big freighters. Thanks, should check again. And, BTW, do you know anyone who succesfully used mines? Tried to set mine field around hypespace exit cloud, but it never worked.
AI in a Gecko once almost hit me with a mine when I tried to sit on it's tail in FE2. Other than that I don't really see the point - you could use them for bombing, but there are no suitable targets in game and you don't have any targeting provisions allowing for remotely effective surface bombing anyway.
 

Heresiarch

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Yeah I'm using JJFFE. I think it's SUPPOSED to be patched, but there's many buggy things which make me facepalm. Like broken instrument with some of the music, my ship tend to explode at planet arrival if I'm reading news, looking at the starmap etc while leaving the control to autopilot.

I've bought a 5MW pulse laser and now I can fight much better - provided the pirates doesn't instagib me 1s after the alarm, I can have a good chance to kill them in a joust.

The control really needs some effort to get used to though - especially the freakin starmap, it's harder to read than Daggerfall's dungeon map!

The manual is, as I expected, an excellent read. I think I shall finish it asap (only read about 1/3 of it so far and I already jumped into action, maybe that's why I suck so much at the actual game).
 

Heresiarch

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Yeah I'm using JJFFE. I think it's SUPPOSED to be patched, but there's many buggy things which make me facepalm. Like broken instrument with some of the music, my ship tend to explode at planet arrival if I'm reading news, looking at the starmap etc while leaving the control to autopilot.

I've bought a 5MW pulse laser and now I can fight much better - provided the pirates doesn't instagib me 1s after the alarm, I can have a good chance to kill them in a joust.

The control really needs some effort to get used to though - especially the freakin starmap, it's harder to read than Daggerfall's dungeon map!

The manual is, as I expected, an excellent read. I think I shall finish it asap (only read about 1/3 of it so far and I already jumped into action, maybe that's why I suck so much at the actual game).
 

DraQ

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Heresiarch said:
Yeah I'm using JJFFE. I think it's SUPPOSED to be patched, but there's many buggy things which make me facepalm. Like broken instrument with some of the music, my ship tend to explode at planet arrival if I'm reading news, looking at the starmap etc while leaving the control to autopilot.
One of my woes as well, prevents me from casually reading newspapers while travelling, like a :obviously: gentleman I am.

I've bought a 5MW pulse laser and now I can fight much better - provided the pirates doesn't instagib me 1s after the alarm, I can have a good chance to kill them in a joust.
Try working on manoeuvres a bit - if you're jousting, it generally means that you have insufficient control over your ship - a good pilot can stick to the rear of anything less manoeuvrable than his ship and poke it with a laser to his heart's content.

http://www.alioth.net/ajn/index.html <- check the tutorial at the bottom, it will help you more than the manual ever will.

The control really needs some effort to get used to though - especially the freakin starmap, it's harder to read than Daggerfall's dungeon map!
Eh, starmap is pretty good IMO, it's just that the controls don't respect it's rotation. Still, there is little point to rotate it, so I generally just slide around with the cursors and zoom in and out, with rotation reserved exclusively for actual flight and orbital map.
 

Heresiarch

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After playing for an evening and barely done the quest to deliver the smuggled artwork (failed many times due to time constraint), I flew to Earth and to my surprise the Earth is a big fucking yellow mud globe. WTF? And I've FFE D3D installed!

Now I'm actually questioning the purpose to play FFE - I understand guys like you DraQ faps furiously over the Newtonian mechanism and other unique things which apparently 98% of the other space sims don't have (intercepting, slingshotting, etc), but I find myself bored pretty fast. The bulletin board missions are too simplistic, trading is too dangerous and probably boring, and the combat may seem nice but I'm not really into it because I'm a peaceful guy lol.

I'm "demoing" Evochron Mercenaries and think I'm going to try it out for 2 hours before dropping it when TEH WIATCHER 2 FINALLY FINISHED TORRETING OH YEAR
 

DraQ

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Heresiarch said:
After playing for an evening and barely done the quest to deliver the smuggled artwork (failed many times due to time constraint), I flew to Earth and to my surprise the Earth is a big fucking yellow mud globe. WTF? And I've FFE D3D installed!

Now I'm actually questioning the purpose to play FFE - I understand guys like you DraQ faps furiously over the Newtonian mechanism and other unique things which apparently 98% of the other space sims don't have (intercepting, slingshotting, etc), but I find myself bored pretty fast. The bulletin board missions are too simplistic, trading is too dangerous and probably boring, and the combat may seem nice but I'm not really into it because I'm a peaceful guy lol.
Well, hauling cargo between safe systems is not going to get interesting, if you want interesting you need to do combat missions. I recommend getting a military drive and doing some classified missions for the military - they are fairly interesting. Other than that, you can probably treat the game as a kind of physics sandbox - orbits, low-level flight, landing in weird places, etc.

There are other options too, like mining, but they require some serious investments, aren't all that profitable and chances are you won't find them terribly interesting either.

Combat, OTOH, can be fun, especially if you try to avoid reloading unless you see the headstone. Landing ship with busted half of the thrusters and damaged autopilot on a 2.5 earth masses planet by hand can be rather memorable.

FE2/FFE are to spasims what Daggerfall is to RPGs - scale is important part of the charm here, so is physics.
 

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