Andhaira said:
Not true dumbass. Wizards were superior to sorcerors in BG2 and even in IWD2.
Matter of opinion. Although the pick 2 free spells at level-up does help even the scales a bit. Did BG2 have that one? I seem to recall someone having the DISTINCT PAIN OF NOT GETTING FIREBALLS. That would never happen to a sorceror!
Andhaira said:
Sorcerors have a huge wekness in that they recieve their spells one level late.
Matter of opinion again. Sure, I won't deny getting the spells one level late is a bad thing, but I assert that it is not THAT bad. After all, plenty of other classes never get them at ALL. Better late than never. And once you get them, you'll have more of them to fling around. Besides, I usually am inclined to sacrifice that bonus spell progresion level to take some PrC that will provide me with some useful feature for hurting people in a new and unique way, like EK or something. Not everything dies to magic.
Andhaira said:
Also, for a sorceror to spend a precious pick on something like identify really hurts, even though you need identify.
...so, don't? That's the sort of thing you take high lore on someone for, or just use a wizard. Or, you know, you could just pay the $100 at the nearest merchant. It was probably vendortrash anyway. It's not like party mages don't benefit from more of them. Two fireballs is better than one, even if one of them is only fireball lobber second class.
Andhaira said:
Also, stuff like sleep and grease and charm
Pssh. Sleep. Sleep is for the weak. It only affects wimpy monsters that you could have just killed anyway, being entirely useless against anything that's actually worth disabling, and so the only time it is of any use at all is at a level when saving throws are still a total hit-or-miss deal. Forget that nonsense. I cast MAGIC MISSILE! Grease, on the other hand, is not at all a bad thing to take, since the effect of turning a suitable area of the battlefield into navhaz never gets old. Certainly not a first-pick spell, but seriously, what else did you have in mind? Magic Missile, Burning Hands...Grease or Mage Armor, perhaps? I mean, it's #3 or 4 on the my CRPG spell picklist anyway. Hardly the waste of a spell.
afewhours said:
The spontaneous classes don't have it all easy. As you level up, certain spells become obsolete, and you have to be very careful what spells you pick.
As you level up, you're offered the opportunity to switch out obsolete crap for shinier versions of it, anyway.
afewhours said:
You have to be careful with Fav Soul/Spirit Shammy as well. They're multi-ability dependant. A Fav Soul requires a minimum CHA of 10 + spell's level to cast, but the power of their spells is dependant on WIS.
Oi. Izzat so? Certainly a point against them there.
afewhours said:
Sorcerers are t3h ultimate nukers, and it's best to play them that way. They're especially brutal once you start taking the metamagic feats.
Is there any OTHER use for a mage in a CRPG? Mages have *ALWAYS* been nukers and crowd controllers. I consider the crowd to be adequately controlled when it is on fire.
afewhours said:
A Wizard will potentially have far more defensive options and better skills, so it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.
Pssh. Defensive options? Against WHAT? Defensive options only matter when opponents exist for some other purpose other than to die short and messy deaths. This is practically never the case in CRPGs. Besides, what would you DO with those defensive options? By the time you finish casting them, the battle is over, and 3.5E nerfed the durations on most anything else so that casting them for anything other than task-specific purposes is a waste of time. And a spell slot. Did I mention that sorcerors never render a spellslot useless with deadweight? I mean, yeah, I like my wizards and clerics, but way too often a spellslot ends up being functionally useless because it's filled with the wrong thing, something you MIGHT have needed, but ended up not needing it. If anything, I tend to give my favored utility spell to the sorceror, because if I need it, it'll be there, and if I don't need it, I could alwys use MOAR FIREBALLS. The memorization classes primarily excel at noncombat roles...something there is precious little of in a CRPG. How many times do you get to use magic in a noncombat manner, anyway? Far as I can tell, practically never! Otherwise the quest would be unsolveable for non-mages. Thus, magic is for BLOWING STUFF UP, pure and simple.
Naturally, all these points are reversed in PnP games, where wizards clearly rule the roost. But CRPGs? Given multiple mages, I take one wizard just to collect all the spells, just in case, and the other casters as sorcs.
As for clerics, clerics have a rather handy feature that mitigates much of the drawbacks, because you can always perform your traditional role of "MEDIC!", due to the spontaneous-convert 3E feature. So I'm rather fond of them nonetheless, as they are in many ways just as flexible as sorcerors despite their semi-hardlocked spell memorization: the fact that they can convert to healing spontaneously means that you can still fill 'em with nukes, plus the fact that clerics are capable fighters means you are not reliant on magic as your sole method of making a useful contribution to the fight. Mace in the face works fine.
