Vapourware RPGs with spellcrafting

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Oh yeah, I guess the Chanter mechanics in PoE are a very bare-bones version of spellcrafting, at least in Deadfire, can't remember how it worked in the first game.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Yep, I think we need to distinguish between three different things:
- Spellcrafting proper: you create your own spells, where you define the effects. Any combination that makes sense works. Examples: TES, TW2, Trazere.
- Flexible spellcasting: spells are pre-defined but some of their aspects can be changed. The best example of that are probably metamagic feats in D&D-based games; otherwise it's typically limited to choosing spell power level, like e.g. in Wizardry 6-8.
- Crafting-based spell systems: you need to combine items and/or symbols to cast or learn pre-defined spells. Possible combinations are finite and hard-coded: UUW, DM, DOS.

Yep, hard coded spells to discover like in Keef the Thief. Nudus Bunsus was a spell I found out by mistake. It was possibly the best spell for that game. Oh cookie you loved that spell.

 

[Saduj]

The ARPG Krater had a mechanic where players could add effects to character abilities using "implants". But in practice, it didn't make sense to add new effects to an ability when you had the option of enhancing the original effects of the ability instead. So you'd add damage to abilities that cause damage, healing to abilities that heal, etc.

One of many reasons the game failed...

 

[somerandomdude]

It would fit better in the JRPG subforum, but Treasure of The Rudras was a pretty innovative game on the SNES that allowed a lot of freedom in creating spells.

They still had "prefix" and "suffix" bonuses in that game and the best spells mostly used those, along with names for the elements. You sandwich an element name in between a prefix and suffix to make a spell. Etc, kaa-ig-nates (without the -'s) gave you a relatively MP efficient single target, high damage fire spell, with -nates- being basically = to '-aga" or "3" in Final Fantasy. And "kaa" added nearly 100 extra damage for only 3 extra MP cost, most other prefix mods that damage range increased the cost by 5 or more. Not saying that's the best, just an example, there were better damage to efficiency prefix/suffixes combinations. Lef was the heal spell element, so kaa-lef-nates would have been a strong single target heal, etc. It wasn't like you could be creative and come up with something stronger than the game gave you utilizing the established prefixes and suffixes, or some of the known plain word spells like "POWERUP" being an attack buff. But nothing stopped you from putting the word nigger in there, just to see what type of spell it would give you. You could put in a name like GODMODEON, and end up getting a weak, inefficient spell that does nothing that the name implies. So, the freedom to be original in creating spells is dramatically overstated in this example.

 

[mondblut]

Syllabic spellcasting in Nahlakh and Natuk were good. Rakh-drakh-fyr, bitch!

 

[Urthor]

Tldr of the thread so far because I love Spellcrafting

For games that are:

#1. Released (or re-released) since 2000 A.D. So I don't have to emulate MS DOS.
#2. Not complete shit.

Choose from:

Fictotum.

Stellar Tactics (when it leaves early access in 2025).

Emulating Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem on PC.

Two Worlds II

Honorable mentions:

Elder Scrolls & Tyranny, everyone knows them.

Did I miss any?

 

[Urthor]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/881100/Noita/

Not an RPG, but yeah it's a pretty fun game and the spellcrafting is one of the deepest I've seen.

I have a Google Document saved somewhere with a whole essay on what an RPG is.

The tldr though, is that real time action games can be RPGs. If Noita isn't an RPG, then Deus Ex cannot be an RPG.

How can Deus Ex not be an RPG? It's RPG Codex's favourite RPG of all time.

The distinctive aspect of Role Playing Games is the Character Sheet.

IMO, to be an RPG, you need a character sheet and you chart improvements on the character sheet.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I don't care if it is an RPG or not. Raw crafting spells interests me be it a TB RPG, Tactical, Blobber, First-person shooter, Tactical Army, Card Game, Dice Game, etc. From memory the Elder Scrolls Daggerfall & such seemed more complex but I have to admit that I haven't ventured into hardly any of the Japanese games. Surely those alchemist games and stuff have delved into creation of custom spells.

 

[Skdursh]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/881100/Noita/

Not an RPG, but yeah it's a pretty fun game and the spellcrafting is one of the deepest I've seen.

I have a Google Document saved somewhere with a whole essay on what an RPG is.

The tldr though, is that real time action games can be RPGs. If Noita isn't an RPG, then Deus Ex cannot be an RPG.

How can Deus Ex not be an RPG? It's RPG Codex's favourite RPG of all time.

The distinctive aspect of Role Playing Games is the Character Sheet.

IMO, to be an RPG, you need a character sheet and you chart improvements on the character sheet.

Noita doesn't have character sheets. It's also a roguelite-platformer, has no story, isn't stat-based, is basically a looter-shooter with interchangeable equipment slots and has literally nothing in common with what makes something an RPG beyond it being a game. Comparing it to Deus Ex is, to put it kindly, at a "eating Tide detergent pods" level of pants-shitting retardation.

 

[Abu Antar]

This has extensive spellcrafting.


This is very light on the "rpg", but offers tinkering with spells.


I found another one that I was thinking of.

 

[Urthor]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/881100/Noita/

Not an RPG, but yeah it's a pretty fun game and the spellcrafting is one of the deepest I've seen.

I have a Google Document saved somewhere with a whole essay on what an RPG is.

The tldr though, is that real time action games can be RPGs. If Noita isn't an RPG, then Deus Ex cannot be an RPG.

How can Deus Ex not be an RPG? It's RPG Codex's favourite RPG of all time.

The distinctive aspect of Role Playing Games is the Character Sheet.

IMO, to be an RPG, you need a character sheet and you chart improvements on the character sheet.

Noita doesn't have character sheets. It's also a roguelite-platformer, has no story, isn't stat-based, is basically a looter-shooter with interchangeable equipment slots and has literally nothing in common with what makes something an RPG beyond it being a game. Comparing it to Deus Ex is, to put it kindly, at a "eating Tide detergent pods" level of pants-shitting retardation.

To me the character sheet is kinda more like "a thing that represents the progress of your character that you customise and optimise."

In Noita your character sheet is your wand arsenal.

I forgot about Mages of Mystralia. Damn that's a good game, really enjoyed it.

 

[Reinhardt]

Revenant

 

[His Dudeness]

Magic and Mayhem, you get a limited set of reagents and slots (green, blue and red) and placing the reagent in the different slots changes the effect.

 

[PanickedTushkano]

You can always try Dawn of Magic (Blood Magic), an ARPG. It's system is pretty restrictive, but it still allows for some interesting combinations. Primary and secondary spell, but some spells will passively use other spells if the character has put spellpoints in them.

The so-called Dawn of Magic 2 on steam is just the expansion, not the full game. The magical system is the same, but otherwise it's the smaller and frankly inferior game. You would have to look for whatever retail copies are still left.

 

[The_Mask]

Septerra Core. One of the best RPGs when it comes to this.

SEPTERRA CORE

Status Effects and Fate Cards​

Status Effects​

There are several status effects, which can negatively affect a character in battle. These can be inflicted and cured with Fate Cards or items.

Status​	Effect​	Cure​
Poison	Target slowly loses HP	Cure, Law, Ward, Herb
Stun	Target can't do anything	Law, Ward
Berserk	Target uncontrollably and randomly attacks anything	Law, Ward
Slow	Target's action bar fills more slowly	Law, Ward
Curse	Target's stats are decreased	Law

Description of Fate Cards, and How to Use Them​

Fate Cards, as explained by Azziz, are the way people on Septerra use the energies radiated by the planet's Core. Every use of a Fate Card requires a certain amount of Core Energy to work. In battle, you have a blue Core Energy bar at the top of the screen. When you use a Fate Card, this energy is depleted. You can use a Fate Card only if you have enough Core to do so. There are many items in the world that will replenish Core.
To use a Fate Card during battle, a character must have charged to at least the first level. When this happens, a grey square appears next to the character's portrait in the upper left part of the screen. Activate the character, then click the Cards icon in the bottom of the screen. Click and drag a card from the list into the slot next to the character portait, then target an enemy to use it. Double-Clicking also moves a card into the active character's slot, or the next available character's slot.

Fate Cards can be combined to create more powerfull attacks. Just place a second card in another character's slot, and when you attack, both (or all three) characters will use their cards at the same time. See the list below for possible combinations.

Some other things to know: Some Fate Cards are offensive, others are defensive. The effect of the Fate Card(s) will be more powerful if you use a fully-charged character before attacking.

The Cards and Their Locations​

There are a total of 21 Fate Cards in Septerra Core. Below is a list with all of the locations in the order in which you find them:

1. Water: Azziz gives it to you after your first lesson.
2. Heal: Received after the battle against the Holy Guards.
3. Rock: Received after defeating Draxx in the Mourn Graveyard.
4. Barrier: Received after defeating Selina in Armstrong.
5. Air: Found in the Ankaran Research Lab.
6. Summon: Received from Gunnar before exploring the World Bazaar.
7. Fire: Received after the fight with Sonic Lava Boss in the Mountain Caverns.
8. Cure: Given to you by the Underlost Chief in Bone Village.
9. Resurrect: Found at Bowman's Grave in the Catacombs.
10. Bless: After defeating Connor for the first time.
11. Law: Received after the fight with first Magi.
12. Slow: Received after the fight with second Magi.
13. Mirror: Recieved after defeating the Hell God.
14. Affect-All: Received after the fight with Balcaam.
15. Achilles' Heel: Received after the fight with Balcaam.
16. Chaos: Received after the fight with the Doomsday Brain
17. Speed: Found in the Chosen Ruins.
18. Cloak: Found in the Chosen Ruins.
19. Curse: Found in the Catacombs.
20. Vampyre: Found in the Catacombs.
21. Joker: Received after the fight with Alisa.

Combos and Descriptions of Cards​

All these (except Black Hole) can be used with Affect All, just add 10 to Core Used for the total.
.

Card or Combo​	Core Used​	Description​
Affect All	10​	Affects all of either enemies or allies
Water	6​	Inflicts Water elemental damage
Earth	9​	Inflicts Earth elemental damage
Air	12​	Inflicts Lightning/Wind elemental damage
Fire	15​	Inflicts Fire elemental damage
Cure	10​	Removes Poison status effect
Cure + Mirror	30​	Poisons target
Heal	10​	Heals target
Heal + Mirror	30​	Removes HP from a target for damage
Bless	25​	Casts Bless: Raises target's stats by 25%
Bless+ Mirror	45​	Casts Curse: Lowers target's stats by 25%
Curse	25​	Casts Curse: Lowers target's stats by 25%
Curse + Mirror	40​	Casts Bless: Raises target's stats by 25%
Ressurect	18​	Revives target with half their total HP
Ressurect + Mirror	38​	Instant death, or some damage
Cloak	25​	Cloaks target: Decreases target's chance of being hit
Cloak + Mirror	45​	Un-cloaks target
Joker	25​	Randomly casts Berserk, Poison, Stun, Slow, or Curse on target
Law	25​	Dispels all status effects from target
Law + Mirror	45​	Casts Berserk on target
Chaos	25​	Casts Berserk on target
Chaos + Mirror	45​	Dispels all status effects from target
Chaos+Law	50​	Chaotic damage on target
Chaos+Law + Mirror	70​	Creates a Black Hole that damages all targets
Vampyre	20​	Drains HP from target and gives it to the caster
Achilles' Heel	15​	Shows target's HP
Slow	25​	Casts Slow on target
Slow + Mirror	40​	Casts Speed on target
Speed	25​	Casts Speed on target
Speed + Mirror	40​	Casts Slow on target
Barrier	15​	Target takes half the pysical damage dealt on it
Barrier+Water	21​	Reduces water damage
Barrier+Earth	24​	Reduces earth damage
Barrier+Air	27​	Reduces lightning/air damage
Barrier+Fire	30​	Reduces fire damage
Barrier+Curse	35​	Prevents Curse
Barrier+Slow	35​	Prevents Slow
Barrier+Resurrect	33​	Prevents Undead damage
Barrier+Law	40​	Prevents all status effects
Barrier+Chaos	30​	Prevents Berserk
Barrier + Mirror	35​	Removes barrier from target
Summon	20​	Summons Bowman for physical damage
Summon+Water	26​	Summons Sedna and Pilitak for water elemental damage
Summon+Earth	29​	Summons Humbaba for earth elemental damage
Summon+Air	32​	Summons Simurgh for lightning/air elemental damage
Summon+Fire	35​	Summons Ouroboros for fire elemental damage
Summon+Heal	30​	Summons Kyra to heal the target
Summon+Resurrect	38​	Summons Thanatos for undead-based damage
Summon+Chaos	45​	Summons Gemma for damage, and casts Berserk on the target
Summon+Law	45​	Summons Marduk for damage
Summon+Joker	45​	Creates a random summon, casts some status effects

​

 

[Gentle Player]

From Software's 2000 PS2 game Eternal Ring has a system in which gems of different elements and grades are looted and then combined in various configurations, to be set in magical rings that can cast spells or grant a passive boost. Unlike King's Field, magic is central to combat soon after the beginning of Eternal Ring, with sword attacks being merely supplementary, so this spellcrafting is critical throughout the game. Unfortunately the game is rather bad; it was clearly rushed for the PS2 launch and is a far greater decline from even the worst King's Field (in my opinion the original Japanese) than any Souls sequel was from Demon's and the original Dark.

 

[Reinhardt]

gems of different elements and grades are looted and then combined in various configurations

Trails series.